Flaring

[dmaline 0]

Totally okay on the assumption ... It happens.

I think i need to watch myself flare up high and know that i finishing it out ... More canopy time, thats what i need.

Thanks for the great advice.

[DocPop 1]

dmaline

I think i need to watch myself flare up high and know that i finishing it out ... More canopy time, thats what i need.

Thanks for the great advice.

You're very welcome.

Also up high (and after checking your airspace) you can try finding the sweet spot while looking straight up at the canopy, out to the side at the horizon and with your eyes closed.

In each case, after finding the sweet spot and holding it for a second or two, slowly finish your flare to build muscle memory for the two actions.

Notice in each case that you get swung out in front of the canopy and try to feel the increase in pressure on your legstraps, the reduction in wind noise and the fact that you are no longer losing altitude.

Again, be safe and have fun!

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[jumpsracer 6]

Have someone on the ground video your landings. It's a great help! Also make sure your hands/toggles are all the way up prior to flaring. Whatever you do don't give up!!! Welcome to the sport!

[dmaline 0]

Appreciate the information!!

Thanks for the welcome ... loving every single second of it.

[dmaline 0]

So we were talking last week about flaring ...

I got to jump Thursday afternoon and had a pretty rough landing. Both instructors on the ground said it looked like i went into half brakes too soon and ended up flaring at the wrong time ... possibly too late. Still trying to figure this out.

Appreciate your advice. Gonna work on my flaring skills this weekend (assuming the winds cooperate)

[DocPop 1]

Did you get a chance to do a high-pull yet?

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[dmaline 0]

By high-pull ... how high do you mean?

The jump i made on Thursday, i pulled at 5500 ... certainly not "high". But, i was able to do a few practice flares. Hoping this weekend i can get out of my own head and nail it.

[DocPop 1]

5500 is good - higher would give you more time to play and get comfortable.

How about 10000? Or right out of the door?

If you're going to go high, make sure you speak to an instructor about the winds, safety etc

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

DocPop

5500 is good - higher would give you more time to play and get comfortable.

How about 10000? Or right out of the door?

If you're going to go high, make sure you speak to an instructor about the winds, safety etc

Right out the door's fun. We got a little higher the other day on our quest for the perfect spot, and I ended up fully deployed at the altitude I usually exit at. I was playing with the front risers so I was still "only" 550 seconds under canopy, but it was still a nice ride down. And I did take some time to enjoy the view

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[dmaline 0]

So, i think as a student thats probably not allowed ... but then again, i havent asked. Would have loved to pull super high and have a ton of time under canopy. We'll see what happens this weekend ...

[DocPop 1]

dmaline

So, i think as a student thats probably not allowed ... but then again, i havent asked. Would have loved to pull super high and have a ton of time under canopy. We'll see what happens this weekend ...

Obviously anything you do should be approved my your local instructors. I wish more people would do high pulls and get to know their canopies.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[JohnMitchell 16]

DocPop

On landing, look out in front of you, not down and when you are about 10-12 feet off the ground flare to your sweet spot. If the ground keeps coming at you, flare some more. If you're just right or too high hold you hands in their position until you start to sink out then progressively and smoothly add more toggle to ease you down to a touchdown just as you reach full flare.

Always finish your flare and try to keep flying the parachute for as long as you can.

This exactly.
The best landing is to have the canopy directly above you, flare until you level off with your feet about a foot off the ground, then continue to bring the toggles down to stay that foot or so off the ground until the canopy quits flying.

This, however, is more easily said than done. It's a fast feedback loop of hand/eye coordination that takes some time for most to learn. (My son learned it too quickly. He only fell down once getting his A license.) The "two-stage" flare is an approximation of the process and makes a good learning crutch.

Another thing to consider is the efficiency of the canopy. Basic physics say that when we flare, we're converting our forward speed to lift. Elliptical ZP 9 cells are more efficient airfoils than F-111 7 cells. The latter canopies require more flare to level off, to the point of possibly needing a full flare to have a soft landing. I've even owned a worn out F-111 7 cell that had to be front risered, then flared, to stand up at all.

I would like to use the two stage landing for students, "ready, set, half brakes - - - Flare!" but it's not my DZ. So I teach the way the DZO deems best.

BTW, all this talk of flaring assumes you're actively controlling the canopy to stay on heading and above your head all the way thru the landing, regardless of wind gusts, etc. If you can get some video of your landings, it's often easy to see small mistakes that can be corrected.

[JohnMitchell 16]

dmaline

I think i need to watch myself flare up high and know that i finishing it out ... More canopy time, thats what i need.

Any practice is good, but it's the visuals of the ground coming up that are important in learning good landings. It's like doing RW with the Earth.

If you do a lot of practice flaring up high, make sure you're flaring evenly and not turning. And maybe try visualizing the ground approaching, then leveling off at various points in your flare. See my previous post for what sight picture I mean. Maybe try varying the rates of flare, etc. I'm kind of making this part up as I go along, though. Any canopy coaches have any input?

[dmaline 0]

This is great advice as well. Thank You!

I have been working on the 2-stage flare, but just havent been able to time it exactly right. Last week, i had a rough landing ... just 1 jump due to high winds. Im hoping jump #24 i can figure this out! 2 more until the possibility of getting my A license ... but i have to stand up this landing.

With that being said ... the 2-stage has been working better. But i am still flaring early. I think i'm looking down instead of out. And thats just tough not to do.

So much to think about ... and its hard to not be hard on myself.

Thanks again

[DocPop 1]

dmaline

So much to think about ... and its hard to not be hard on myself.

We have all been there! Don't give up.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[JohnMitchell 16]

dmaline

Last week, i had a rough landing ... just 1 jump due to high winds.

More wind usually means easier landings, unless you drift off the wind line. Did you end up going somewhat sideways when you landed?

Quote

With that being said ... the 2-stage has been working better. But i am still flaring early. I think i'm looking down instead of out. And thats just tough not to do.

If or when you flare too early, as soon as you realize it, STOP your flare, and wait until you get a little lower to resume the flare.

Remember, the 2 stage flare is a learning tool or crutch to help you learn to do a proper, gauged, controlled flare. Think of a captain landing an airliner. He doesn't just yank back on the yoke. He flares just enough to hold the plane ju-u-u-st off the runway until it runs out of airspeed to fly.

[frogerina 0]

While talking about flaring...a rank newbie question. (2 jumps, 2 landings into AFF process). How quickly do you bring the toggles down for that flare? I feel like I've been "sneaking" them down slowly, and haven't yet managed to get into a full flare until I'm somewhat hurriedly practicing my PLF skills.

On my first jump course, my instructors just talked about a full flare; after second jump, a different instructor mentioned staging the flare -- thanks to those who have described it. As a scrawny girl on a ginormous canopy (nice to soften the landings, but a lot of umph to flare!) I think that I could have more success with this.

Looking forward to my next jump and spending more time working on the flare up high. But yeah...how fast do you perform that flare?

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

A canopy course would put you right a lot faster than asking about it on these forums would. Leastwise not unless we can see you landing. Much easier to see what you're doing than trying to have you describe it. A canopy course instructor would typically video you and go over what you did and work with you to get your canopy flight, pattern and landing in order. I did one before I even completed my A license. I'm probably going to do another one whenever I finish recovering for paying for my gear. I'm a big fan of the canopy course.

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[pchapman 279]

While canopy courses are great, what's someone to do at 2 jumps?

I think they'd hope to get decent instruction from their instructors now, rather than signing up for the next local canopy course starting 8 months from now...

If you got one that was appropriate for your level when not even licensed, lucky you.

As for frogerina's question, it is of course hard to teach flares by text. Still, when you are light under a huge canopy, you may need a fairly rapid flare to get the canopy to pitch back nicely to level you out for landing, as you don't have a lot of time and energy on a big slow canopy to gradually plane out and adjust your flightpath before touchdown. (On the other hand, with a really big student canopy, even if you flared at 20 ft, you should be able to mush in and not get hurt as long as you have a good PLF.)

At the same time, ideally everyone takes just a little bit of time during the flare to adjust it. Start the flare, take a split second to see how it is going as far as levelling you out, and then finish off faster or slower depending on whether the flare is going to slow you down nicely to a point just above the ground. One doesn't want to haul down on the toggles as fast as possible, even if that is one of the ways taught to students for simplicity. That takes away your ability to adjust for being even 1 foot high or 1 foot low when you hammer the toggles down.

The usual "talk to your instructors" caveat applies.

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

pchapman

While canopy courses are great, what's someone to do at 2 jumps?

The AFF students here get talked down on the radio... if they can hear it. Between that and the AFF ground school instruction, I was able to get on the ground mostly undamaged most of the time. I sucked (Suuuuuuuucked) at landing for a long time. It's probably still the part of skydiving I do that needs the most work. I can't think of anything else (skydiving related) that I suck at so much.

So what do you do in AFF? Be prepared to PLF every landing. There were a few jumps in there where I actually committed to PLF landings (IIRC 5-6 jumps) just so I could improve my PLF. Flare, PLF. Flare, PLF. Good PLF came in handy when the lighting guys set us up a downwind night landing the other night, let me tell you...

The DZ here has a nice beginner-level canopy course where they teach flat turns, rear riser flight and flares, finding level flight and stall recovery. In addition they help you clean up your landing pattern and go over your landing on video with you. I had a tendency to want to ride my brakes on final because I was freaked out by how fast I was descending. Instructor put a stop to that, quickly. All the course material is in the SIM, they just present it in a more-digestible, less theoretical manner.

Even with all that I still sucked at landing for a long time. Probably still do. Another couple hundred jumps maybe I'll be able to land on a Smurf. Or a puffin.

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[dmaline 0]

This makes a lot of sense ... now its just putting it into practice, you know?I'm hoping that if i end up flaring too early, i can just hold it at half brakes until i am close enough to the ground ... i think i just need to hold my half brakes a little more. Patience, its hard when the ground is coming at you.

[DocPop 1]

dmaline

I'm hoping that if i end up flaring too early, i can just hold it at half brakes until i am close enough to the ground ...

That's exactly right. And it's all you can do.

Knowledge is power - if you take a canopy course you'll learn about flight cycles and the effect of the various inputs on your canopy. That will make it easier to understand WHY you need to do what you do.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[dmaline 0]

That is next on my list =) Just hoping that i can nail this stand up landing. I think when it happens, i'm going to have the light bulb turn on and say "damn, now i get it"

[DocPop 1]

dmaline

That is next on my list =) Just hoping that i can nail this stand up landing. I think when it happens, i'm going to have the light bulb turn on and say "damn, now i get it"

I think you will get that lightbulb. In the meantime, prepare to PLF every landing. It's easier to progress if you don't break yourself!

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[dthames 0]

dmaline

That is next on my list =) Just hoping that i can nail this stand up landing. I think when it happens, i'm going to have the light bulb turn on and say "damn, now i get it"

I had stand up landings as a student and some that I could not understand why I needed to PLF. Near the end of my student jumps, I got to thinking, maybe I should get the exact same rig every time. #1 I could stand up. #2 seemed to be more picky.

I noticed my skills greatly improved when I could do more than one or two jumps in one day. If you can do lower cost Hop and Pops, you might try to do several in one day and get some good practice in.

A proper flare is dynamic and not the same every time. Like when you stop at a red light, the rate you stop is very often different based on a lot of factors. You just have to learn to read what is going on and react in time for your reaction to deliver for you. Many student canopies are a bit sluggish as well. I did a lot better once I got my own gear.

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”