Who will replace Biden?

[billvon 3,058]

23 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Bill,

And, if Trump gets the Senate, you kiss it all goodbye.

Yep.

People get mad when I drew the parallels to Hitler's rise to power.  But similar elements keep popping up.

In 1933, the German system of justice underwent "coordination" to better align with Nazi goals.  Basically all elements involved with the administration of justice - courts, jails, police investigators - were merged into the National Socialist League of German Jurists to better implement the Nazi agenda.  Later that year Hitler passed one of the earliest antisemitic laws, purging Jewish and Socialist judges, lawyers, and other court officers from their positions; he then personally appointed their replacements.  The Academy of German Law advocated the nazification of German law, cleansing it of "Jewish influence."  Judges were told to let "healthy popular sentiment" (gesundes Volksempfinden, or populism) determine the outcome of their trials, rather than any rule of law.

Replace "Nazi" with "MAGA" and "Jewish" with "woke" and you have Project 2025.

[JoeWeber 2,808]

Just now, billvon said:

Yep.

People get mad when I drew the parallels to Hitler's rise to power.  But similar elements keep popping up.

In 1933, the German system of justice underwent "coordination" to better align with Nazi goals.  Basically all elements involved with the administration of justice - courts, jails, police investigators - were merged into the National Socialist League of German Jurists to better implement the Nazi agenda.  Later that year Hitler passed one of the earliest antisemitic laws, purging Jewish and Socialist judges, lawyers, and other court officers from their positions; he then personally appointed their replacements.  The Academy of German Law advocated the nazification of German law, cleansing it of "Jewish influence."  Judges were told to let "healthy popular sentiment" (gesundes Volksempfinden, or populism) determine the outcome of their trials, rather than any rule of law.

Replace "Nazi" with "MAGA" and "Jewish" with "woke" and you have Project 2025.

Not even 100 years ago, that was. Those who enjoy quoting Santayana on the subject of history ought probably to restrain themselves to quoting Yogi Berra.

[tkhayes 348]

11 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Out of curiosity what message are you folks leaving? What are you suggesting Biden do? 

step down, release your delegates and campaign funds and enjoy your retirement as a good president, or risk becoming the president that helped to end the republic.

[normiss 843]

8 hours ago, billvon said:

Yep.

People get mad when I drew the parallels to Hitler's rise to power.  But similar elements keep popping up.

In 1933, the German system of justice underwent "coordination" to better align with Nazi goals.  Basically all elements involved with the administration of justice - courts, jails, police investigators - were merged into the National Socialist League of German Jurists to better implement the Nazi agenda.  Later that year Hitler passed one of the earliest antisemitic laws, purging Jewish and Socialist judges, lawyers, and other court officers from their positions; he then personally appointed their replacements.  The Academy of German Law advocated the nazification of German law, cleansing it of "Jewish influence."  Judges were told to let "healthy popular sentiment" (gesundes Volksempfinden, or populism) determine the outcome of their trials, rather than any rule of law.

Replace "Nazi" with "MAGA" and "Jewish" with "woke" and you have Project 2025.

Heritage Foundation president celebrates Supreme Court presidential immunity ruling: "We are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be"

Ron was right about something, SHTF is actually starting.

[BIGUN 1,395]

9 hours ago, billvon said:

People get mad when I drew the parallels to Hitler's rise to power.  But similar elements keep popping up.

 . . .

Replace "Nazi" with "MAGA" and "Jewish" with "woke" and you have Project 2025.

Therefore, all Republicans are MAGA.

Therefore, all Democrats support Hamas.

I disagree with the association of the entire class rather than the individual policies of each side. 

[gowlerk 2,245]

14 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Therefore, all Republicans are MAGA.

Therefore, all Democrats support Hamas.

I disagree with the association of the entire class rather than the individual policies of each side. 

I also believe the parallel being drawn by Bill is largely over stated. Mostly because the circumstances of 1930's Germany were so very different from today's America. But the comparison is interesting nonetheless.

[normiss 843]

27 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

I also believe the parallel being drawn by Bill is largely over stated. Mostly because the circumstances of 1930's Germany were so very different from today's America. But the comparison is interesting nonetheless.

The Nazis kept the Final Solution quiet....until they had the control and protection to actually put it into action.

I see it as VERY similar. It's not about Jews this time though.

[gowlerk 2,245]

7 minutes ago, normiss said:

The Nazis kept the Final Solution quiet....until they had the control and protection to actually put it into action.

I see it as VERY similar. It's not about Jews this time though.

The reason it was kept quiet was that there was never a single plan made at any one time. It came out of a conference in 1942 and it grew from there. For most of the Nazi era it simply did not exist. It was actually "the Jewish question" and the final solution was so named because it was seen as the answer. After that it was indeed kept as quiet as a wholesale organized slaughter of millions of innocent people could be. Because they all knew it was a crime of immense proportions. 

Edited July 3, 2024 by gowlerk

[SkyDekker 1,465]

13 hours ago, brenthutch said:

And yet she wasn’t.

Wow, you actually are able to state something factual sometimes.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

59 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Therefore, all Republicans are MAGA.

Therefore, all Democrats support Hamas.

I disagree with the association of the entire class rather than the individual policies of each side. 

In your past if you met a male German who was fighting age during WWII, what was your assumption?

[BIGUN 1,395]

29 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

In your past if you met a male German who was fighting age during WWII, what was your assumption?

Masterful art of deflection and strawman in one sentence. 

[billvon 3,058]

1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

Therefore, all Republicans are MAGA.

?? No, I was very specifically comparing MAGA to Nazi.  Didn't say anything about republicans or conservatives.

It is become more and more clear that MAGA has almost no connection with what the republican party once stood for.

[BIGUN 1,395]

5 minutes ago, billvon said:

It is become more and more clear that MAGA has almost no connection with what the republican party once stood for.

While I appreciate the clarification, not all Republicans are MAGA.  

What specific parts of Project 2025 do you disagree with.

Which do you agree with?

[JerryBaumchen 1,422]

12 hours ago, billvon said:

Yep.

People get mad when I drew the parallels to Hitler's rise to power.  But similar elements keep popping up.

In 1933, the German system of justice underwent "coordination" to better align with Nazi goals.  Basically all elements involved with the administration of justice - courts, jails, police investigators - were merged into the National Socialist League of German Jurists to better implement the Nazi agenda.  Later that year Hitler passed one of the earliest antisemitic laws, purging Jewish and Socialist judges, lawyers, and other court officers from their positions; he then personally appointed their replacements.  The Academy of German Law advocated the nazification of German law, cleansing it of "Jewish influence."  Judges were told to let "healthy popular sentiment" (gesundes Volksempfinden, or populism) determine the outcome of their trials, rather than any rule of law.

Replace "Nazi" with "MAGA" and "Jewish" with "woke" and you have Project 2025.

Hi Bill,

Re:  People get mad when I drew the parallels to Hitler's rise to power. 

We are on the very same page.  I've been saying this for a very long time.

Thank you for the extensive post bringing this in detail.

Every American should be very afraid of what might come next.

Jerry Baumchen

[JerryBaumchen 1,422]

1 hour ago, SkyDekker said:

In your past if you met a male German who was fighting age during WWII, what was your assumption?

Hi Sky,

In 62-63, I was stationed in NE France.  We used to go up to Germany on the weekends; better beer & better women.  Virtually, every elder German we would talk to served on the eastern front.  Sure!!!!!!

Jerry Baumchen

[SkyDekker 1,465]

14 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

While I appreciate the clarification, not all Republicans are MAGA.  

What specific parts of Project 2025 do you disagree with.

Which do you agree with?

Disagree:

Restore the family as the centerpiece of American life

Dismantle the administrative state 

Deleting the terms sexual orientation and gender identity (“SOGI”), diversity, equity, and inclusion (“DEI”), gender, gender equality, gender equity, gender awareness, gender-sensitive, abortion, reproductive health, reproductive rights

Pornography should be outlawed

Schools serve parents

conservatives should gratefully celebrate the greatest pro-family win in a generation: overturning Roe v. Wade

America’s elites have betrayed the American people

Economic engagement with China should be ended

pursuit of the good life is found primarily in family—marriage, children, Thanksgiving dinners, and the like.

Religious devotion and spirituality are the greatest sources of happiness

the private economy hews to the maxim “the customer is always right”

 the Left does not believe that all men are created equal—they think they are special.

it is almost impossible to delineate exactly where an issue is strictly personal and has no bearing on the President’s official function.

The White House Counsel’s office ... should function more as an activist yet ethical plaintiffs’ firm that advocates for its client: the Administration’s agenda

the Biden Administration’s leveraging of the federal government’s resources to further the woke agenda should be reversed and scrubbed from all policy manuals, guidance documents, and agendas,

Whereas the position for overseeing budget activities is traditionally held by a career official, it is imperative that a political appointee lead the ONDCP budget office

the only real solution is for the national government to do less: to decentralize and privatize as much as possible 

Whereas most military personnel have had leftist priorities imposed from above, the problem at State comes largely from within.

(DOD should) Provide necessary support to Department of Homeland Security (DHS) border protection operations.

Abolish Department of Education

 

There is much, much more, but there is some flavour around how this document advocated for a christian nationalist state.

 

 

[JerryBaumchen 1,422]

Hi folks,

It is only going to get worse:  

not only did Biden fail in this objective, but he exacerbated perhaps his biggest weakness

 Gretchen Whitmer who is being floated as a Biden replacement — told Biden that the Wolverine State was no longer winnable for the incumbent after the debate.

Tides begin to turn on Joe Biden post-debate (thehill.com)

Jerry Baumchen

[billvon 3,058]

1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

While I appreciate the clarification, not all Republicans are MAGA.  

Uh - right.  That's what I said above.

Quote

What specific parts of Project 2025 do you disagree with.

OK slight change of topic.

Parts of 2025 I disagree with - that's a lot.  I'll start with a few examples:

Removing any and all federal protections for gay and trans people and women's health.  Specifically, "deleting the terms sexual orientation and gender identity (“SOGI”), diversity, equity, and inclusion, gender, gender equality, gender equity, gender awareness, gender-sensitive, abortion, reproductive health, reproductive rights, and any other term used to deprive Americans of their First Amendment rights out of every federal rule, agency regulation, contract, grant, regulation, and piece of legislation that exists."  What is especially galling is that later they mention PROMOTING laws against abortion.  Which means that those words are banned, unless the law bans abortion.  Then it's OK to use the word.

Trying to control law by telling people which words they can't use is known as "Newspeak."

Outlawing pornography.  Having the federal government ban things they find offensive is a horrible idea, and runs directly counter to the First Amendment.  Specifically "Pornography, manifested today in the omnipresent propagation of transgender ideology and sexualization of children, for instance, is not a political Gordian knot inextricably binding up disparate claims about free speech, property rights, sexual liberation, and child welfare. It has no claim to First Amendment protection. Its purveyors are child predators and misogynistic exploiters of women. Their product is as addictive as any illicit drug and as psychologically destructive as any crime. Pornography should be outlawed. The people who produce and distribute it should be imprisoned. Educators and public librarians who purvey it should be classed as registered sex offenders. And telecommunications and technology firms that facilitate its spread should be shuttered."  That leads very, very quickly to a government-approved list of books that kids can read that no librarian will dare stray from; if they do they will be arrested, imprisoned and labeled sex offenders.

Banning specific areas of study.  Again, the federal government has no charter nor right to ban education they dislike, and it is a power they should not have.   "The noxious tenets of “critical race theory” and “gender ideology” should be excised from curricula in every public school in the country." 

Banning abortion.  Nuff said.

Promoting only conservative loyalists in the military.  The new government "should rigorously review all general and flag officer promotions to prioritize the core roles and responsibilities of the military over social engineering and non-defense related matters, including climate change, critical race theory, manufactured extremism, and other polarizing policies that weaken our armed forces and discourage our nation’s finest men and women from enlisting."  Partisan military leadership is incredibly dangerous.

Revenge.  One bullet point in the border section reads simply "Withdraw Biden Administration regulations."  No list of which ones.  A goal of repealing everything a former president did is one based on revenge, not merit.

Parts of 2025 I agree with - all the nonspecific stuff.  Sure, protect families, that's great.  Stop excessive spending.  Also great.  Protect kids.  I am all for that.  Rule of law!  Yay!  

In addition, most of the specific plans they have for revamping the executive branch are sort of dont-cares for me.  Every president can set up their administration how they want to.  Planning ahead?  That's fine.

But pretty much every SPECIFIC plan they have that involves new laws/regulations/executive orders that affect the populace ranges from misguided to toxic to just plain evil.

[JoeWeber 2,808]

We are six pages into the "Who will replace Biden" thread and our best suggestions are below. 9 names. Two were meant as a joke, three ain't ever happening, and Bill won't man up. That leaves Newsome, Moore, and Shapiro. Right.

Amy Klobuchar

William von Novak

Gavin Newsome

Wes Moore

Joe Manchin

Michelle Obama

Josh Shapiro

Adam Kinzinger 

Liz Cheney

[gowlerk 2,245]

2 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

There is much, much more, but there is some flavour around how this document advocated for a christian nationalist state.

I wonder how long after that happens will be the calls for a holy way in the holy land?

[billeisele 130]

If I correctly understand the rules, laws, nuances and politics that the various talking heads are stating: Joe intends to stay in, the funds raised for the Biden-Harris ticket can only be used for either of those candidates, If they ditch Harris the fallout will be catastrophic, many believe that Harris is unelectable, it's too late to bring in a replacement, some believe (or are just lying) that Joe is actually fine, Newsome is unelectable due to the train wreck he's created in CA, seems that there is plenty of turmoil amongst the decision makers

Trump is hoping the various judges rule in his favor based on the recent SC decision, Fanni, Jack and Alvin aren't happy, Merchan is on the hot seat more than before, the polls appear to be going Trumps way, polls only matter if voters vote. The Republican convention is imminent as is the VP choice, the VP choices probably believe that they would have the best shot at being the next President, that fact isn't good for Haley.

We're watching history being made. What a mess.

As that mess rolls on. Moves by Panama and Mexico are reducing migrate flow and the US is returning illegal Chinese immigrants. More to come on that.

[BIGUN 1,395]

16 hours ago, billvon said:

Specifically, "deleting the terms sexual orientation and gender identity (“SOGI”), diversity, equity, and inclusion, gender, gender equality, gender equity, gender awareness, gender-sensitive, abortion, reproductive health, reproductive rights, and any other term used to deprive Americans of their First Amendment rights out of every federal rule, agency regulation, contract, grant, regulation, and piece of legislation that exists."  

This was the most heavy-handed section. Well, there was a few others. I'd have to say I disagreed with about half of it. Heavy on the Abortion, Heavy on the Christian, etc.

As you know (some have challenged me on it), my kid got an earful the first 15 minutes of each class while this was "popular." Eventually, the noise settled down and they went back to their studies. I have agreed and championed the need for education in the area of gender (XXXY, etc.) For me. serving up this information in a sex education class is important - elsewhere not so much.  

I also believe that transgender is not unlike abortion and should be between someone and their doctor.  Mulvaney did more to harm the transgender community than help it. S/he wasn't about education. S/he was about self.

16 hours ago, billvon said:

Outlawing pornography. 

I "think" we agree. I am opposed to pornography in school up thru the age of 18, but have no issue with a sex education class. The rest of the outlawing pornography was silly and has been upheld in court several times.

 

16 hours ago, billvon said:

The new government "should rigorously review all general and flag officer promotions to prioritize the core roles and responsibilities of the military over social engineering and non-defense related matters, including climate change, critical race theory, manufactured extremism, and other polarizing policies that weaken our armed forces and discourage our nation’s finest men and women from enlisting." 

I half agree with this. The military like school is a place of focus. And explained my reason in a previous missive. General says ten minutes, Colonel wanting to impress the General for a promotion says, 20 minutes. First Sergeant wanting to impress the Colonel for promotion, etc. What good do those non-defense related classes do for one in Ranger school. They're training to be Commandoes. They're entire job is to wipe shit out, not pause to pat anyone on the butt.     

16 hours ago, billvon said:

Trying to control law by telling people which words they can't use is known as "Newspeak."

I see it both ways. Telling people which words they should speak is the same. You can't demand someone stop using the N word. You can educate them on why they shouldn't and continue that education for 20 years to see the change.   

16 hours ago, billvon said:

One bullet point in the border section reads simply "Withdraw Biden Administration regulations."  No list of which ones.  A goal of repealing everything a former president did is one based on revenge, not merit.

That was the initial quote. It later goes on to the specificity in each section. "The federal government’s immense bureaucracy spreads into hundreds of agencies and thousands of units and is centered and overseen at the top by key central personnel agencies and their governing laws and regulations." (p.69) We've had this discussion. We could not only reduce most agencies by 50% and engage in some economies of scale including the military. 16 intelligence-gathering agencies. Silly. 

More another time - Gonna spend time with the family and hope everyone has a great 4th of July.

[tkhayes 348]

21 hours ago, gowlerk said:

I also believe the parallel being drawn by Bill is largely over stated. Mostly because the circumstances of 1930's Germany were so very different from today's America. But the comparison is interesting nonetheless.

largely overstated until it actually happens.  Are there not enough examples from Trumps time in office and enough words coming out of his mouth, not enough information from the Republican party (Project2025) to see that THEY DO IN FACT intend to do these things?

When Trump says he wants to be a dictator, there is no reason to not believe him and if you read Project 2025, they intend to make that happen.  Bring on the civil war.  This is in fact the time to panic - the normal means of each branch of government checking the others is failing badly and people who say 'you are overstating' are just going to stand there and watch it happen

[tkhayes 348]

4 hours ago, billeisele said:

If I correctly understand the rules, laws, nuances and politics that the various talking heads are stating: Joe intends to stay in, the funds raised for the Biden-Harris ticket can only be used for either of those candidates, If they ditch Harris the fallout will be catastrophic, many believe that Harris is unelectable, it's too late to bring in a replacement, some believe (or are just lying) that Joe is actually fine, Newsome is unelectable due to the train wreck he's created in CA, seems that there is plenty of turmoil amongst the decision makers

Trump is hoping the various judges rule in his favor based on the recent SC decision, Fanni, Jack and Alvin aren't happy, Merchan is on the hot seat more than before, the polls appear to be going Trumps way, polls only matter if voters vote. The Republican convention is imminent as is the VP choice, the VP choices probably believe that they would have the best shot at being the next President, that fact isn't good for Haley.

We're watching history being made. What a mess.

As that mess rolls on. Moves by Panama and Mexico are reducing migrate flow and the US is returning illegal Chinese immigrants. More to come on that.

disagree.  It is never 'too late' to save the democracy or fight to preserve it.  That means we are simply trying to hang onto power instead of doing what is right.

I believe that ANY decent Democratic candidate could beat Trump with or without money.  Biden staying in just demonstrates that even the Democrats are mired in their own political power structure and do not give a fuck about the country.

The sad part right now is the discussion is 100% about how unfit Biden is for office and not even 1% about how unfit Trump is for office.  Representative Democracy is dead and has been systematically dismantled for decades, by one party TRYING to do it and the rest of america doing NOTHING or standing by saying we are 'overreacting'.

The good news?  The civil war with kill them all and install a parliamentary based socialist government that takes care of the people.  Even the right wing will lose everything that they claim to be fighting for, because it is only about power and control for a few.

 

Happy fourth of July folks - no idea what we are celebrating today.  This place is fucked.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

6 hours ago, BIGUN said:

What good do those non-defense related classes do for one in Ranger school. They're training to be Commandoes. They're entire job is to wipe shit out, not pause to pat anyone on the butt.     

 

6 hours ago, BIGUN said:

You can't demand someone stop using the N word. You can educate them on why they shouldn't and continue that education for 20 years to see the change. 

So we shouldn't teach Commandoes not to call a fellow black soldier the N word because they are trained to wipe shit out?

I honestly don't understand how you can hold both these positions at the same time.