What will be the Result of a Trump Win After Jan 20th

[brenthutch 444]

On day one, Trump will declare an emergency, suspend the constitution, outlaw opposition parties, anoint himself emperor for life, appoint Don Jr. as his successor, declare war on everyone other than Russia and North Korea and rename the U.S. Trumponia. 

Edited July 13, 2024 by brenthutch

[Phil1111 1,149]

27 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Morning, Phil. here's my thing - I don't see his base growing, but a base that is dwindling - so as those numbers edge out, they will fall into two camps, 1) like me, not willing to vote against, so no vote, or 2) a few edging over to Biden - against Trump.    

Agree but his base is dwindling at a slow rate. Most are driven by a few core principals which are aligned with Trump. As been stated many times most voters don't like either candidate. So the turnout will be determined by interest and devotion to those principals of the motivated. Given the stakes its hard to conceptualize why any voter would lose interest. But thats human nature.

One editorial in the NYT today is entitled "Republicans will regret a second Trump win ". I never read it but the carnage to the party of a win relating to "2025" principals is obvious.. Many republicans have given up on the current leadership of the GOP and fallen into the camp like yourself, Jerry, Liz Cheney, et al.

Edited July 13, 2024 by Phil1111

[JoeWeber 2,727]

Just now, BIGUN said:

Agreed. I think had that Joe Biden been at the debate and hit on those key points, he would have fared much better. 

Unfortunately, the entire media uh, oh, uh, oh team will stay on this like slime on Trump for any and every chance at a click or eyeball and minimal regard for the country or the fact that Biden has been gaffing and word slurring since  he told his old man the truth: quit calling me champ, it’s embarrassing. So go frizzlegimgobo yourself.

[JoeWeber 2,727]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

On day one, Trump will declare an emergency, suspend the constitution, outlaw opposition parties, anoint himself emperor for life, appoint Don Jr. as his successor, declare war on everyone other than Russia and North Korea and rename the U.S. Trumponia. 

You should get a job at hospice, you'd be wonderful.

[JerryBaumchen 1,367]

4 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

Agree but his base is dwindling at a slow rate. Most are driven by a few core principals which are aligned with Trump. As been stated many times most voters don't like either candidate. So the turnout will be determined by interest and devotion to those principals of the motivated. Given the stakes its hard to conceptualize why any voter would lose interest. But thats human nature.

One editorial in the NYT today is entitled "Republicans will regret a second Trump win ". I never read it but the carnage to the party of a win relating to "2025" principals is obvious.. Many republicans have given up on the current leadership of the GOP and fallen into the camp like yourself, Jerry, Liz Cheney, et al.

Hi Phil,

This is truly the worst choice for Pres I have ever had.

I think Biden will have trouble with older voters, over 65 [ yes, that is a generalization ], they have watched their parents age, and they see themselves aging.  They, of all of us, know that Biden can be gone in a heartbeat; they face it every day.

Jerry Baumchen

[JoeWeber 2,727]

2 hours ago, BIGUN said:

1) like me, not willing to vote against, so no vote, or 2) a few edging over to Biden - against Trump.  

I neither get this way of thinking or respect it, sorry to say. To say you aren't "voting against" is self chicanery; just a cheap mechanism to pretend the truth isn't the truth: you reserve the right to sit out the hard ones. Please rethink your position. 

[JoeWeber 2,727]

Just now, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Phil,

This is truly the worst choice for Pres I have ever had.

I think Biden will have trouble with older voters, over 65 [ yes, that is a generalization ], they have watched their parents age, and they see themselves aging.  They, of all of us, know that Biden can be gone in a heartbeat; they face it every day.

Jerry Baumchen

I can sort of see your point but it's not how I see things. I see people around me, old engineers and master riggers, who are into their 80's and who are vital and still able to stir the shit online. Sure people with crap genes are falling over and mumbling and so on but to my eye the sands of time can be made to run a lot slower by staying active physically and mentally. I'd say Biden fits that model. 

[JerryBaumchen 1,367]

7 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

I can sort of see your point but it's not how I see things. I see people around me, old engineers and master riggers, who are into their 80's and who are vital and still able to stir the shit online. Sure people with crap genes are falling over and mumbling and so on but to my eye the sands of time can be made to run a lot slower by staying active physically and mentally. I'd say Biden fits that model. 

Hi Joe,

I am an outlier; not the norm.

Jerry Baumchen

[JoeWeber 2,727]

Just now, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Joe,

I am an outlier; not the norm.

Jerry Baumchen

Finally something I agree with. But I'm thinking that's somewhat true of many of us here. Even 'ol BillVon who remains in possession of a large portion of his critical reasoning faculties has continued on in a second or third career to stay active and somewhat interesting and ward off the day to come when someone hangs a sign with his name and address around his neck. So credit yourself with your circumstance; it's not just chance.

[JerryBaumchen 1,367]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

Finally something I agree with. But I'm thinking that's somewhat true of many of us here. Even 'ol BillVon who remains in possession of a large portion of his critical reasoning faculties has continued on in a second or third career to stay active and somewhat interesting and ward off the day to come when someone hangs a sign with his name and address around his neck. So credit yourself with your circumstance; it's not just chance.

Hi Joe,

IMO it is genetics more than anything; another version of 'chance.'

Of course, we all can do things to keep us both physically & mentally alert; but, we cannot control Mother Nature.

Her world, her rules.  And, she enforces them.

Jerry Baumchen

 

[BIGUN 1,317]

16 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

To say you aren't "voting against" is self chicanery

The American people are the most divided we've seen in this lifetime. Most of the left-leaning on here have made comments about Biden's lack of fitness for varying reasons, Trump fitness is more than questionable. I haven't sat out since 1980. What in the hell are my choices?  What the hell are anybody's choices? We're not voting for anymore - we're voting against.

You have been vocal about your lack of confidence in Biden - you're not really voting for him, you're voting against Trump. 

I bring up a D that I would vote for, young, military experience, Rhodes Scholar, socially responsible, fiscally conservative, gun laws in Maryland that have yet to be challenged, etc. and yet, he gets a dismissive wave of the hand cause America is "not ready" for another Black on the ticket.

16 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

just a cheap mechanism to pretend the truth isn't the truth: you reserve the right to sit out the hard ones. Please rethink your position.

 The truth is - I will sit out this one if no one brings us the type of leadership this country needs. Abstention is active politics. It's being able to stand up and say, I don't agree with either position because it's not in the interest of the greater good. If enough people abstain, then sometimes people will reflect on doing something different - or they'll just dig in their heels and drive their point harder - even if it's not for the benefit of everyone - that's the real self-chicanery.  You want me to vote your way. Not the best way. 

[nigel99 489]

4 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

The American people are the most divided we've seen in this lifetime. Most of the left-leaning on here have made comments about Biden's lack of fitness for varying reasons, Trump fitness is more than questionable. I haven't sat out since 1980. What in the hell are my choices?  What the hell are anybody's choices? We're not voting for anymore - we're voting against.

You have been vocal about your lack of confidence in Biden - you're not really voting for him, you're voting against Trump. 

I bring up a D that I would vote for, young, military experience, Rhodes Scholar, socially responsible, fiscally conservative, gun laws in Maryland that have yet to be challenged, etc. and yet, he gets a dismissive wave of the hand cause America is "not ready" for another Black on the ticket.

 The truth is - I will sit out this one if no one brings us the type of leadership this country needs. Abstention is active politics. It's being able to stand up and say, I don't agree with either position because it's not in the interest of the greater good. If enough people abstain, then sometimes people will reflect on doing something different - or they'll just dig in their heels and drive their point harder - even if it's not for the benefit of everyone - that's the real self-chicanery.  You want me to vote your way. Not the best way. 

I tend to agree with you sitting it out and logic

[BIGUN 1,317]

3 hours ago, nigel99 said:

I tend to agree with you sitting it out and logic

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1pzlfKSN0PM

[Phil1111 1,149]

3 hours ago, BIGUN said:

... I don't agree with either position because it's not in the interest of the greater good. ....  You want me to vote your way. Not the best way. 

Everyone votes a certain way for one or a couple most important reasons. For some its strictly personal gain. i.e. libertarians who want the government to have no more than ten percent of GDP of the whole economy. Others would prefer the Scandinavian types of government where the government is 55% of the whole economy.

A voters ideals of the greater good is not necessarily more social programs. But what they know as ideal based upon sound personal research, debate, facts and personal integrity.

Those who want to subvert such understandings, democratic actions through electoral fraud, propaganda, etc. Are the antithesis of the greater good of a just, upstanding citizen. IMO.

I applaud your thinking.

[billvon 2,998]

5 hours ago, BIGUN said:

 The truth is - I will sit out this one if no one brings us the type of leadership this country needs.

I can't.  Biden is boring and old, but has done well so far.  He will get more boring and more old, and likely not survive his next term, or will be 25th'ed out.  In which case the presidency will be in disarray and nothing much will get done.  Which is not the worst outcome.

Trump is an active danger to America.  He has long campaigned on retribution and vengeance, and has stated he will be a "dictator" for a short time, and that he wants to "terminate" the "phony" Constitution.  That's an active threat to America.  One could claim "well, he won't be able to do that" - but ten years ago I am sure no one would have thought he could mount an insurrection, get abortion de-legalized or put Putin on a pedestal, either.  If he accomplishes even 25% of what he sets out to do, he will have damaged the US significantly.

Also, he is just plain evil.  You can explain away greedy business decisions ("it's for the stockholders!") having a drug addict son, treating your kids poorly ("they're just not good kids") even working to take rights away from women ("the states should decide.")  But you cannot pursue a stranger into a changing room and rape them without being inherently evil.  And I don't want the US led by an evil man.

The choice, for me, is very clear.  The US is too important to me to ignore the threat.

[Phil1111 1,149]

5 minutes ago, billvon said:

I can't.  Biden is boring and old, but has done well so far.  ...

The choice, for me, is very clear.  The US is too important to me to ignore the threat.

I applaud your thinking.

[JoeWeber 2,727]

Just now, billvon said:

I can't.  Biden is boring and old, but has done well so far.  He will get more boring and more old, and likely not survive his next term, or will be 25th'ed out.  In which case the presidency will be in disarray and nothing much will get done.  Which is not the worst outcome.

Trump is an active danger to America.  He has long campaigned on retribution and vengeance, and has stated he will be a "dictator" for a short time, and that he wants to "terminate" the "phony" Constitution.  That's an active threat to America.  One could claim "well, he won't be able to do that" - but ten years ago I am sure no one would have thought he could mount an insurrection, get abortion de-legalized or put Putin on a pedestal, either.  If he accomplishes even 25% of what he sets out to do, he will have damaged the US significantly.

Also, he is just plain evil.  You can explain away greedy business decisions ("it's for the stockholders!") having a drug addict son, treating your kids poorly ("they're just not good kids") even working to take rights away from women ("the states should decide.")  But you cannot pursue a stranger into a changing room and rape them without being inherently evil.  And I don't want the US led by an evil man.

The choice, for me, is very clear.  The US is too important to me to ignore the threat.

That's it. 

 

1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

The American people are the most divided we've seen in this lifetime. Most of the left-leaning on here have made comments about Biden's lack of fitness for varying reasons, Trump fitness is more than questionable. I haven't sat out since 1980. What in the hell are my choices?  What the hell are anybody's choices? We're not voting for anymore - we're voting against.

You have been vocal about your lack of confidence in Biden - you're not really voting for him, you're voting against Trump. 

I bring up a D that I would vote for, young, military experience, Rhodes Scholar, socially responsible, fiscally conservative, gun laws in Maryland that have yet to be challenged, etc. and yet, he gets a dismissive wave of the hand cause America is "not ready" for another Black on the ticket.

 The truth is - I will sit out this one if no one brings us the type of leadership this country needs. Abstention is active politics. It's being able to stand up and say, I don't agree with either position because it's not in the interest of the greater good. If enough people abstain, then sometimes people will reflect on doing something different - or they'll just dig in their heels and drive their point harder - even if it's not for the benefit of everyone - that's the real self-chicanery.  You want me to vote your way. Not the best way. 

Parse it and play it however it makes you feel better but it's still the case that one of the candidates will always have, if it's even ever so infinitesimal, an edge that makes them a better choice of the two to lead the nation. By not voting you are voting at least in some percentage for the candidate you least prefer. Not to mention it's a horrible example to set in a representative democracy you are otherwise proud to have served to protect it's continuance. If you can be happy with yourself when displaying such a disconnect publicly so be it.

[SethInMI 174]

I see Elon is fully in the Trump camp now with his endorsement.  I wonder if this will save the EV tax credits. I have read that Trump's #1 priority is getting them eliminated.  Is Elon backing Trump with an eye to save the credits, as a business decision? Or just to stick it to the DEI lovers, regardless of how it impacts Tesla's bottom line?

It's hard to tell, they are both such blowhards. 

[CygnusX-1 43]

On 7/14/2024 at 7:35 AM, BIGUN said:

The truth is - I will sit out this one if no one brings us the type of leadership this country needs.

What we really need is for you, me, and everyone else who is unhappy with our selection to start a grass-roots movement and vote for a 3rd candidate. Or maybe go all "Brewster's Millions" and vote None Of The Above.

That is the only way we as citizens will break the two-party system and why each party thinks they can nominate such horrible people.

[wmw999 2,452]

1 hour ago, CygnusX-1 said:

What we really need is for you, me, and everyone else who is unhappy with our selection to start a grass-roots movement and vote for a 3rd candidate. Or maybe go all "Brewster's Millions" and vote None Of The Above.

That is the only way we as citizens will break the two-party system and why each party thinks they can nominate such horrible people.

Unfortunately I think that's like people who try to break the oil industry by not buying gasoline. Too much is invested in the current system. I wish it weren't so, but I think it'll take either some kind of meltdown (like WW2 or the Depression) or violence.

The only times a third party has even come close to winning in the last 150 years has been when it's been a populist party, or based on personal loyalty (e.g. T. Roosevelt). And then it wasn't particularly close, just close enough to mention.

Wendy P.

[David Wang 56]

Trump just picked J.D. Vance as his running mate. After the assassination attempt on Trump, the narrative of the media changed entirely. Now, with Trump's VP pick, I don't see Biden get replaced anytime soon.

[JoeWeber 2,727]

Just now, David Wang said:

Trump just picked J.D. Vance as his running mate. After the assassination attempt on Trump, the narrative of the media changed entirely. Now, with Trump's VP pick, I don't see Biden get replaced anytime soon.

Aren't you supposed to be studying? We sent you out of skydiving and into college, as you might recall. Now back to it.

[David Wang 56]

2 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Aren't you supposed to be studying? We sent you out of skydiving and into college, as you might recall. Now back to it.

How is that related to anything?

[wmw999 2,452]

Don’t you have a crabby uncle? He’s our crabby uncle… 

Wendy P. 

[olofscience 480]

Well, with Trump promising tariffs on everything the US imports, inflation in the US will probably jump 10%.

And conservatives here (i.e. Brent) were complaining how inflation was all Biden's fault 

We had high inflation in the UK too the past few years (under a conservative government no less), but it's a silver lining that this time the inflation will be more isolated to just the US. COVID is far more contagious than stupid Trump tariffs