evan85 0 #26 August 2, 2013 RemsterYou're commenting on a video of a jumper having bad day below 2k. If you want to have a discussion about stability drills on exit, start your own thread. Just so that someone says it, grue, I think what you said makes perfect sense and is very relevant to this conversation. If someone has the experience to jump that canopy, and has the experience to make the decision not to jump an RSL (a decision with which I disagree with but for which I understand the arguments), he/she should not take that long to get stable. Period. This is an issue of a number of things contributing to the incident. If any one of them were done differently, I think this would just be a fairly normal (if on the low end altitude-wise) cutaway and reserve ride: * Possibly pulling low (not clear from the video) * Spending way too long trying to fix line twists while spinning on his back * Taking way too long to get stable after cutaway * Not having an RSL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BKW82 0 #27 August 2, 2013 QuotePlenty of people out there hurf and blurf about how they don't have an RSL because they need to get stable after a chop. If their freefall skills are so shitty that they need 10 seconds to get stable, they need to take that into consideration when planning out their decision altitudes. I completely understand what you're saying. Now take a look at the video again... this guy is leading a very nice tracking dive/angle flight while on his back, then at the end of the tracking dive, he flips to his belly with precision. You can CLEARLY see he is an experienced and capable skydiver if you understand what you're watching. This would then lead me to believe, which has also been confirmed by people who have been through this scenario, that getting stable after cutting away from a violently spinning canopy is actually quite difficult. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #28 August 2, 2013 QuoteTaking way too long to get stable after cutaway That, right there, is my problem.... Evan: What do YOU think is an adequate amount of time to take to get stable after a cutaway?Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BKW82 0 #29 August 2, 2013 Remster again: YOU SHOULD NOT WAIT UNTIL YOU ARE STABLE TO PULL RESERVE! RSL or not. Mad skillz or not. +1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #30 August 2, 2013 BKW82QuotePlenty of people out there hurf and blurf about how they don't have an RSL because they need to get stable after a chop. If their freefall skills are so shitty that they need 10 seconds to get stable, they need to take that into consideration when planning out their decision altitudes. I completely understand what you're saying. Now take a look at the video again... this guy is leading a very nice tracking dive/angle flight while on his back, then at the end of the tracking dive, he flips to his belly with precision. You can CLEARLY see he is an experienced and capable skydiver if you understand what you're watching. This would then lead me to believe, which has also been confirmed by people who have been through this scenario, that getting stable after cutting away from a violently spinning canopy is actually quite difficult. Yes, it's true. This is why education on the matter is important. People keep killing themselves with shitty decisions, and the best way to avoid shitty decisions is by basing your decisions on better information. I'm completely against the "get stable and pull" argument and think it's a moronic train of thought. You'll lose MUCH less altitude kicking out of line twists under a reserve (if you even get them) than you will lose in freefall. We should take advantage of the fact that this guy got video of his bad decision (assuming that's what happened) and use it to demonstrate to people how that train of thought can go.cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
demoknite 0 #31 August 3, 2013 What anecdotal evidence do we have with RSL-deployed reserves under a highly loaded, high performance canopy? Im assuming you find yourself back under conservative planform reserve that is probably spinning as well? I always jump an RSL. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #32 August 3, 2013 grue*** When I get line twists on my semi-elliptical pilot, fly's straight. Choices choices choices. I've had a semi-elliptical put me on my back in line twists before, only loaded at about 1.3 as well. It's not as common, but it does happen. i've had my safire2 leave me dizzy after a spinner..“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #33 August 3, 2013 QuotePlenty of people out there hurf and blurf about how they don't have an RSL because they need to get stable after a chop. I've listed my many reasons for not using my RSL in a separate thread. Those reasons are not related to wanting to get stable after cutting away. The 3 times I've chopped, I pulled the reserve immediately.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #34 August 3, 2013 yoink *facepalm. 28 seconds to get under a reserve from a malfunctioning main... Take up bowling, guy. This.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #35 August 3, 2013 grue*********Damn. Would love to hear what caused the low reserve pull. Was the jumper waiting for stability? It's absolutely inexcusable for any jumper under a canopy like that to need that long to get stable. What even more inexcusable _for any jumper_ is trying to get stable for that long. I'll accept it as a possibility for absolute newbies. 1. Pull 2. Pull at altitude. 3. Pull stable.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
huge 0 #36 August 5, 2013 NWFlyer *** Chop it, pull reserve, chase it if it's heading somewhere you can safely land (but don't catch it). Stop wasting time fucking around! FIFY. Sorry, I know you know that, but I hate to see people getting hurt b/c they follow their gear somewhere sketchy. I'd rather be walking around that bumpy, rocky, hole-ridden field looking for my shit later than pulling my broken ankle out of one of those holes.This is getting off topic but I'd also add that you should stop chasing the gear around 1000ft to fly your pattern. I once chased a d-bag just to end up doing a downwind (~15 MPH) landing on a parking lot. I made sure that I have a good place to land but didn't pay enough attention to the wind direction or anything else. Had there been somebody else chasing down the same piece of gear they most probably would have been landing against me Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
