Harris or Trump in November

[jakee 1,563]

  On 11/8/2024 at 8:39 AM, metalslug said:

That's priceless considering progressive minds just lost the US election through naivety.

You mean conservative minds just won the election by promising the unachievable and uncontrollable. Convincing people that reality is not what it is does mean that you have changed reality into what you say it is.

  On 11/8/2024 at 8:39 AM, metalslug said:

Just sometimes; pragmatism beats idealism. I truly hope I am wrong in this next prediction; there is no amount of US aid, other than significant US personnel on the ground,  that will allow Ukraine to completely recover all the ground that Putin has taken. 

Tough to say that when full scale military aid and a gloves off permit to the Ukrainian military hasn’t yet been tried. They’ve been fighting with two hands tied behind their backs this whole time and have had truly remarkable success. We’re just getting them started with access to something approaching a genuine western style combined arms capability and the rug will be pulled out from under them by your champ. Not to mention the current stalemate is a direct result of the months long pause in arms supply by MAGA Mike that allowed Russia to dig in, re supply and launch their current offensive. Remember that juuuuuust before that happened their was so much real optimism about Ukrainian progress. They were in the verge of completely isolating Crimea. Now the Right have deliberately made it so much more difficult for them to fight and you’re pointing to the results as proof they can’t fight. It’s insulting.

  On 11/8/2024 at 8:39 AM, metalslug said:

And, yes, such a deal would be unjust and Putin would have seized much more than he deserves and I wish it were not so. If you think that means I'm a Putin supporter then have at it. 

It means you were obviously talking bollocks when you said Putin didn’t want Trump to win. Unless you honestly think Putin would rather keep fighting a well armed Ukrainian military with the Dems in power than be gifted the enormous win you have just described with Trump in power. 

Again, does that logic really make sense to you?

[metalslug 36]

  On 11/8/2024 at 10:49 AM, jakee said:

Convincing people that reality is not what it is does mean that you have changed reality into what you say it is.

Now there's a typical liberal philosophy if ever there was. <facepalm>.

  On 11/8/2024 at 10:49 AM, jakee said:

Tough to say that when full scale military aid and a gloves off permit to the Ukrainian military hasn’t yet been tried.... 

Ukraine forces have been exceptional. That much is true. However; show me one credible and objective military expert or analysis that shows, or even strongly states, that Ukraine can retake all their land with equipment and financial aid alone. I'll wait....

  On 11/8/2024 at 10:49 AM, jakee said:

It means you were obviously talking bollocks when you said Putin didn’t want Trump to win. 

Putin briefly elaborated on his preference for Biden by stating that Biden was more "predictable", thereby implying that Trump was not, and said during a time after Trump had been gloating to North Korea about the "big red button" on his desk. With that kind paranoia, Putin might as well have been a "never Trumper".

  Quote

“We have come to a dangerous line,” Putin told the Valdai discussion club in the Black Sea resort of Sochi, a day after learning that Donald Trump had won the US presidential election.

Yup, they sound like best mates for sure.

Edited November 8, 2024 by metalslug

[nigel99 568]

  On 11/8/2024 at 11:19 AM, metalslug said:

Now there's a typical liberal philosophy if ever there was. <facepalm>.

Ukraine forces have been exceptional. That much is true. However; show me one credible and objective military expert or analysis that shows, or even strongly states, that Ukraine can retake all their land with equipment and financial aid alone. I'll wait....

Putin briefly elaborated on his preference for Biden by stating that Biden was more "predictable", thereby implying that Trump was not, and said during a time after Trump had been gloating to North Korea about the "big red button" on his desk. With that kind paranoia, Putin might as well have been a "never Trumper".

Yup, they sound like best mates for sure.

The Prince is 500 years old and Machiavelli had already warned about the dangers of an erratic and unpredictable opponent. 

Of course Putin prefers Biden over Trump from a stability point of view. Having someone unpredictable means you’ve got to be ready to respond at all times, and strike hard. Most of the world detests Trump.

Ultimately though for Putin and all the other strongmen they know Trump is a fragile and vain man who is easily manipulated. They can have him kissing their boots with a few well placed words and telling him he’s a good boy. 

Musk and other opportunists use exactly the same strategy to stroke Trunps fragile ego. 

[SkyDekker 1,465]

  On 11/8/2024 at 1:02 AM, metalslug said:

Let me get this straight - We're in opposites world? If Putin states that he prefers Biden then that actually means he prefers Trump? ...and if Putin were to ever state that he supports Trump then may we then assume that he actually supports Biden (or whichever new D candidate emerges)?

...and not forgetting that it's apparently acceptable for a progressive on this forum to (objectively) compliment Putin on his smarts, but it's abhorrent when any conservative does, as Trump did. 

There's no version of lefty logic here that doesn't end with your preferred narrative of Putin and Trump as pals. "Heads I win. Tails you lose."

Or maybe it isn't black and white? Maybe there are all kinds of nuances and you have to asses each situation and form an opinion.

Putin could prefer Biden because Biden would like act more predictably than Trump

Putin can also prefer Trump because he is so much easier to influence and manipulate

Just one of many, many nuances.

[jaybird18c 24]

  On 11/8/2024 at 5:36 PM, SkyDekker said:

Or maybe it isn't black and white? Maybe there are all kinds of nuances and you have to asses each situation and form an opinion.

Putin could prefer Biden because Biden would like act more predictably than Trump

Putin can also prefer Trump because he is so much easier to influence and manipulate

Just one of many, many nuances.

“Asses.” You funny.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

  On 11/8/2024 at 5:38 PM, jaybird18c said:

“Asses.” You funny.

I am utterly shocked that was the only word you understood.

[jaybird18c 24]

  On 11/8/2024 at 5:39 PM, SkyDekker said:

I am utterly shocked that was the only word you understood.

It just correlates to most of what you say. You know… Word association with SkyDekker.

[jakee 1,563]

  On 11/8/2024 at 11:19 AM, metalslug said:

Now there's a typical liberal philosophy if ever there was. <facepalm>.

Right, it is indeed liberal philosophy because it makes sense, unlike what you are trying to peddle.  The viewpoint changing from the righties on here as soon as the results came in is hilarious. Before the election not one of you who said Trump would win said that the result would be down to anything but 'the economy, stupid' and that it would be in spite of all of Trump's antics. Now the result has come in and you're all shouting 'see, MAGA is right about everything and the entire liberal philosophy is doomed!' It's absolute bollocks. 

  On 11/8/2024 at 11:19 AM, metalslug said:

Ukraine forces have been exceptional. That much is true. However; show me one credible and objective military expert or analysis that shows, or even strongly states, that Ukraine can retake all their land with equipment and financial aid alone. I'll wait....

Not sure where all of it came from, but whatever - how about more land than they had before the current invasion?

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/02/22/ukraine-crimea-russia-putin-red-line-00083857

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/event/the-case-for-ukraine-retaking-crimea/

  On 11/8/2024 at 11:19 AM, metalslug said:

“We have come to a dangerous line,” Putin told the Valdai discussion club in the Black Sea resort of Sochi, a day after learning that Donald Trump had won the US presidential election.

Yup, they sound like best mates for sure.

So there's two options here - first, you saw a simple quote and didn't bother to look beyond the way it was fed to you, or second, you know what Putin actually said and you're lying about it to save face.

Putin said that the leaders of Western liberalism who are currently trying to defeat him have pushed things to a dangerous line. About Trump, he said things like "He behaved, in my opinion, in a very correct way, courageously, like a real man," and "What was said about the desire to restore relations with Russia, to bring about the end of the Ukrainian crisis, in my opinion this deserves attention at least,"

So on this subject please do what liberals do and make your points based on what reality actually is, not what you would prefer it to be.

[JerryBaumchen 1,436]

  On 11/8/2024 at 1:15 PM, nigel99 said:

The Prince is 500 years old and Machiavelli had already warned about the dangers of an erratic and unpredictable opponent. 

Of course Putin prefers Biden over Trump from a stability point of view. Having someone unpredictable means you’ve got to be ready to respond at all times, and strike hard. Most of the world detests Trump.

Ultimately though for Putin and all the other strongmen they know Trump is a fragile and vain man who is easily manipulated. They can have him kissing their boots with a few well placed words and telling him he’s a good boy. 

Musk and other opportunists use exactly the same strategy to stroke Trunps fragile ego. 

Hi Nigel,

Re:  Ultimately though for Putin and all the other strongmen they know Trump is a fragile and vain man who is easily manipulated.

I know of no international 'strong man' that Trump has ever stood up do.  He is usually kissing their boots with a few well placed words and telling him he’s a good boy. 

Trump is no different than the school yard bully.  All mouth & no guts.

Jerry Baumchen

[metalslug 36]

  On 11/8/2024 at 6:47 PM, jakee said:

Convincing people that reality is not what it is does mean that you have changed reality into what you say it is.

Right, it is indeed liberal philosophy because it makes sense, unlike what you are trying to peddle.

You're seriously sticking with that? Read that (above) back to yourself slowly at least once, because that's truly next-level bullshit.

  On 11/8/2024 at 6:47 PM, jakee said:

Not sure where all of it came from, but whatever - how about more land than they had before the current invasion?

So you're OK with an outcome of compromise just so long as liberals get to propose which areas are acceptable to cede. Just a few more years of war to go then despite more than a few voices from within Ukraine who are much less interested in Crimea than retaking the rest of Ukraine.

  On 11/8/2024 at 1:15 PM, nigel99 said:

Ultimately though for Putin and all the other strongmen they know Trump is a fragile and vain man who is easily manipulated.

Riiiight. Because that's the kind of person who gets who win the presidency twice with less campaign spending than both his opponents.

"vain"?. Absolutely, and many worse things too, but "fragile"? You're not exactly across events within the last year then; being shot at, prosecuted under absurd new legal precedents with flagrant political motivations.. and came out where he is now. But you're welcome to your opinion; the kind of insight and intuition that had Dems surprised that they lost the election by so much and surprised when Biden had been exposed as impaired. Carry on...

[metalslug 36]

  On 11/8/2024 at 6:47 PM, jakee said:

So there's two options here - first, you saw a simple quote and didn't bother to look beyond the way it was fed to you, or second, you know what <a person> actually said and you're lying about it to save face.

This scenario sounds familiar. Do you recall a popular media fed line about "being a dictator on day one" ? ..or the "fine people on both sides" ?  Glass houses...

[jakee 1,563]

  On 11/9/2024 at 7:56 AM, metalslug said:

This scenario sounds familiar. Do you recall a popular media fed line about "being a dictator on day one" ? ..or the "fine people on both sides" ?  Glass houses...

Nice dodge, but which is it? Did you get fooled by someone else selectively quoting Putin or did you selectively quote him yourself to try and fool us? More to the point it really does sound like he prefers the idea of talking to Trump than fighting Harris, doesn’t it?

[jakee 1,563]

  On 11/9/2024 at 4:28 AM, metalslug said:

You're seriously sticking with that? Read that (above) back to yourself slowly at least once, because that's truly next-level bullshit.

Since you’re unable to say why you disagree I’m going to stick with it. Righties are not better able to recognise what’s going on in the world because they won an election. Being competent at propaganda and understanding reality are two completely different things. 

Otherwise you’d be saying that this year righties understand logic and reality better than anyone else, but four years ago they didn’t have a clue what was going on, but 4 years before that they knew everything about the world, but 4 years before that they had no idea etc etc. doesn’t make any sense.

  On 11/9/2024 at 4:28 AM, metalslug said:

So you're OK with an outcome of compromise just so long as liberals get to propose which areas are acceptable to cede.

No, that’s a stupid assumption that seems to be a projection of your own view of Ukraine as simply a plaything for bigger global powers. I would prefer we support them properly until they decide. It would be the opposite of pragmatic to assume, as you do, that they would definitely insist on fighting right up to the inch of the previous borders. Maybe they would, maybe not. Taking Crimea back but losing some chunk of the current occupied territory might be something they can live with. Taking enough softer, less well defended Russian territory that they can trade it back for the parts of Ukraine Russia has been digging into may be another option. 

Edited November 9, 2024 by jakee

[metalslug 36]

  On 11/9/2024 at 8:23 AM, jakee said:

Since you’re unable to say why you disagree I’m going to stick with it.

Let's break this down then into two parts of your sentence;

  On 11/8/2024 at 10:49 AM, jakee said:

 Convincing people that reality is not what it is does mean that you have changed reality into what you say it is.

"Convincing people that reality is not what it is"  -  ie; a lie, an illusion, a false perception ..

"does mean that you have changed reality into what you say it is" - you're saying that actual reality and truth has been changed to match that false perception or lie.

 As absurd as, for example, claiming to fabricate a clone of a real item using nothing more than a mirror. ....and you maintain that a statement that absurd should be a good liberal belief? 

[jakee 1,563]

  On 11/9/2024 at 8:49 AM, metalslug said:

“does mean that you have changed reality into what you say it is" - you're saying that actual reality and truth has been changed to match that false perception or lie.

Ah, no. That should say ‘does not mean’. sure it’s a typo but I’m surprised you could t figure that out from the context.

[metalslug 36]

  On 11/9/2024 at 9:04 AM, jakee said:

Ah, no. That should say ‘does not mean’. sure it’s a typo but I’m surprised you could t figure that out from the context.

Ooh, that's rich, considering you stood by your statement twice after I questioned it and even when I suggested that you read it back to yourself. So we had established all the context needed based on that. But now it's a typo?  Of course....

[jakee 1,563]

  On 11/9/2024 at 9:07 AM, metalslug said:

But now it's a typo?  Of course....

Of course it’s a typo, considering I’d already said logic should be used to understand the world as it is. But ok, I get that you’re going to fixate on this. You can’t defend your statement that it’s crazy not to believe that everything Putin says is true, or that righties understand the world better than lefties just because they won an election, but you’ve got this. Well done.

Back to the reason for the comment in the first place - are you got to keep pretending that reality is a place where Putin really would prefer to keep fighting a Ukraine suppose with weapons by Harris than deal with Trump who campaigned on ending the war immediately? 

[metalslug 36]

  On 11/9/2024 at 9:14 AM, jakee said:

You can’t defend your statement that it’s crazy not to believe that everything Putin says is true,

I was not suggesting that everything that Putin says is true. I was pointing out how liberals selectively cherry-pick his anti-Trump or pro-Biden statements as clever lies and his pro-Trump statements as truths because they are supposedly best pals that regularly conspire in laptops and elections and whatever else the left claims that they do to fit their preferred smear-by-association narrative.

  On 11/9/2024 at 9:14 AM, jakee said:

Back to the reason for the comment in the first place - are you got to keep pretending that reality is a place where Putin really would prefer to keep fighting a Ukraine suppose with weapons by Harris than deal with Trump who campaigned on ending the war immediately? 

Within the context of Trump vs Democrats; the outcome here is not about what either Putin or Ukraine prefer. It's about what the American electorate prefer regarding their part in this. The electorate might or might not have been aware that Trump intends to try end the war as soon as able and they might further have known, or not, that the only way to end it soon is through a compromise in which Ukraine comes out as the loser of territory. The possible upside, from an American perspective, is that their money stops bleeding into that war and people stop dying there. In a perfect world I might think to myself that I'd love to see NATO land everything they've got in Ukraine and drive out Russia from all of Ukraine in quick time. But of course Russia might launch nukes or attract allies and it all becomes another super-sized shitstorm that US citizens had never asked to be a part of in a far-off country.

[jakee 1,563]

  On 11/9/2024 at 9:48 AM, metalslug said:

I was not suggesting that everything that Putin says is true. I was pointing out how liberals selectively cherry-pick his anti-Trump or pro-Biden statements as clever lies and his pro-Trump statements as truths because they are supposedly best pals that regularly conspire in laptops and elections and whatever else the left claims that they do to fit their preferred smear-by-association narrative.

No, that’s an absolute lie. You came into this thread to say that Putin definitely wouldn’t be happy with a Trump victory because he had said he would prefer Biden to win. There was no nuance to the statement - you just said it was a fact because Putin said so. 

You then told someone they were wearing a tin foil hat because they did not believe that Putin was telling the truth. And again, there was no other nuance or clever contrast being made, you were simply saying it’s crazy not to believe what Putin says. This is where your right wing philosophy has brought you to - accusing someone of being a conspiracy theorist for not believing every word out of the KGB man’s mouth. Reagan would be so proud.

And finally, you’re arguing against your own straw man. This thing of trying to read the tea leaves of Putin’s public statements is your fool’s errand, not ours. Putin will be very happy with Trump’s win because the democrats want to keep supplying Ukraine with the means to fight and MAGA does not. That’s what I’ve got backing up my opinion, and on your side you’ve got a deliberate misquote of something Putin said at a Sochi country club. 

  On 11/9/2024 at 9:48 AM, metalslug said:

Within the context of Trump vs Democrats; the outcome here is not about what either Putin or Ukraine prefer. It's about what the American electorate prefer regarding their part in this.

Translation: you don’t want to talk about what Putin prefers anymore because you know you’re wrong. 

BTW, no one knows what the electorate prefer. The election was not a referendum on Ukraine. 

Edited November 9, 2024 by jakee

[metalslug 36]

  On 11/9/2024 at 10:52 AM, jakee said:

No, that’s an absolute lie. You came into this thread to say that Putin definitely wouldn’t be happy with a Trump victory because he had said he would prefer Biden to win.

On that statement. That's rather different than saying that everything Putin says is true.

  On 11/9/2024 at 10:52 AM, jakee said:

...you were simply saying it’s crazy not to believe what Putin says. 

Don't hurt yourself with that stretch; I was implying it's a common example of the conspiracy theorist liberal who would automatically assume that a pro-Biden statement to be Putin's clever lie so as to fit their preferred narrative of Trump. Both yourself and nigel99 are free to disagree with my opinion on that, in the same way you may disagree that Biden had impairments for several years while the Dems were in denial.

  On 11/8/2024 at 6:47 PM, jakee said:

Putin said that the leaders of Western liberalism who are currently trying to defeat him have pushed things to a dangerous line.

"liberalism" eh? In which part of Putin's event speech was that word included? Since Trump is not a liberal it's rather convenient for you to include that word. Who is misquoting now?

  On 11/9/2024 at 10:52 AM, jakee said:

BTW, no one knows what the electorate prefer. The election was not a referendum on Ukraine. 

That's only true if you assume Trump's policy on Ukraine was not well-known to the electorate, therefore cannot be conclusively stated that it was not a referendum on Ukraine. That remains (your) opinion.

  Quote

Trump has called Putin a genius and very savvy for invading Ukraine. He’s regularly called him a strong leader, he’s called him a better leader than the US President. He gushingly compliments Putin on a regular basis. 

It serves Trump's interest (to the US electorate) to paint Putin as a mastermind that can only be effectively dealt with by another mastermind such as himself.  Much like Harris'  "Putin would eat Trump for lunch" comment; should we thereby also infer that Harris believes Putin to be a masterful politician?

[jakee 1,563]

  On 11/9/2024 at 2:37 PM, metalslug said:

On that statement. That's rather different than saying that everything Putin says is true.

You said it was true because he said it. You've given no other reason for thinking it was true other than that he said it. You accused someone of wearing a tinfoil hat for daring to think that the thing Putin said was not true.

  On 11/9/2024 at 2:37 PM, metalslug said:

Don't hurt yourself with that stretch; I was implying it's a common example of the conspiracy theorist liberal who would automatically assume that a pro-Biden statement to be Putin's clever lie so as to fit their preferred narrative of Trump.

But that's nonsense. MAGA blocking Ukraine aid for months is not a liberal narrative - it really happened. Trump repeatedly saying he would end the war immediately and complaining that the US is aiding Ukraine too much is not a liberal narrative, it really happened. So again - it is pure projection for you to think that a liberal assumes that a thing Putin said is automatically untrue just because he said it. In this case, it was clearly not true because it is plainly obvious that Putin stands to benefit hugely from a Trump presidency.

  On 11/9/2024 at 2:37 PM, metalslug said:

"liberalism" eh? In which part of Putin's event speech was that word included? Since Trump is not a liberal it's rather convenient for you to include that word. 

Yes, that's the point. Trump is not a liberal therefore he obviously wasn't talking about Trump (although I suppose one could argue that all western democracy looks like extremist liberalism to Putin... but as you'll see that makes no difference here). Since you deliberately did not provide a source when you first brought it up I'm not going to bother showing you where to find the speech, but I'll show you what he said.

"And that’s what we see in the Western liberalism. It has degenerated into, I believe, extreme intolerance and aggression towards any alternative, towards any sovereign and independent thought. And today, it justifies neo-Nazism, terrorism, racism and even mass genocide of civilian population. In the end, that’s international conflicts and clashes that might bring about mutual destruction because the weapons capable of doing that already exist.

And it’s constantly being improved. It acquires new forms as the technologies develop. And the club of the countries that possess such weapons is becoming wider. No one can guarantee that in case of avalanche-like increase in threats and final deterioration of legal and moral norms, it would not be used.

I have already said that we’ve come to a dangerous line. And calls of the West to deliver strategic defeat to Russia, a country with the largest arsenal of nuclear weapons, shows extreme adventurism of the Western politicians. At least some of them. Such blind faith in their own impunity and exceptionalism might turn to a global tragedy."

  On 11/9/2024 at 2:37 PM, metalslug said:

Who is misquoting now?

You. Plainly and obviously you. You know that.

  On 11/9/2024 at 2:37 PM, metalslug said:

That's only true if you assume Trump's policy on Ukraine was not well-known to the electorate, therefore cannot be conclusively stated that it was not a referendum on Ukraine. That remains (your) opinion.

Oh dear, you've missed a really obvious point there. The election could be seen as a referendum on Ukraine if you assume the electorate knows Trump's policy and it's the only thing they cared about when casting their vote. This is, of course, nonsense.

 

Edited November 9, 2024 by jakee

[nigel99 568]

  On 11/9/2024 at 3:12 PM, jakee said:

You said it was true because he said it. You've given no other reason for thinking it was true other than that he said it. You accused someone of wearing a tinfoil hat for daring to think that the thing Putin said was not true.

But that's nonsense. MAGA blocking Ukraine aid for months is not a liberal narrative - it really happened. Trump repeatedly saying he would end the war immediately and complaining that the US is aiding Ukraine too much is not a liberal narrative, it really happened. So again - it is pure projection for you to think that a liberal assumes that a thing Putin said is automatically untrue just because he said it. In this case, it was clearly not true because it is plainly obvious that Putin stands to benefit hugely from a Trump presidency.

Yes, that's the point. Trump is not a liberal therefore he obviously wasn't talking about Trump (although I suppose one could argue that all western democracy looks like extremist liberalism to Putin... but as you'll see that makes no difference here). Since you deliberately did not provide a source when you first brought it up I'm not going to bother showing you where to find the speech, but I'll show you what he said.

"And that’s what we see in the Western liberalism. It has degenerated into, I believe, extreme intolerance and aggression towards any alternative, towards any sovereign and independent thought. And today, it justifies neo-Nazism, terrorism, racism and even mass genocide of civilian population. In the end, that’s international conflicts and clashes that might bring about mutual destruction because the weapons capable of doing that already exist.

And it’s constantly being improved. It acquires new forms as the technologies develop. And the club of the countries that possess such weapons is becoming wider. No one can guarantee that in case of avalanche-like increase in threats and final deterioration of legal and moral norms, it would not be used.

I have already said that we’ve come to a dangerous line. And calls of the West to deliver strategic defeat to Russia, a country with the largest arsenal of nuclear weapons, shows extreme adventurism of the Western politicians. At least some of them. Such blind faith in their own impunity and exceptionalism might turn to a global tragedy."

You. Plainly and obviously you. You know that.

Oh dear, you've missed a really obvious point there. The election could be seen as a referendum on Ukraine if you assume the electorate knows Trump's policy and it's the only thing they cared about when casting their vote. This is, of course, nonsense.

 

This is interesting. I wanted to see if the media here was lying about the fact that the day AFTER the elections the search term “what is a tariff “ peaked on google. 

Got to love a stupid electorate. 

[nigel99 568]

Saw a funny suggestion to really screw with MAGA. Biden should resign and let Harris be president for the next 2 months. First woman president:)

[JerryBaumchen 1,436]

  On 11/10/2024 at 3:04 AM, nigel99 said:

Saw a funny suggestion to really screw with MAGA. Biden should resign and let Harris be president for the next 2 months. First woman president:)

Hi Nigel,

I was just thinking that today.

I would absolutely support that. 

And, her sending Trump to Gitmo; she would have the power, SCOTUS said so.

Jerry Baumchen

[JoeWeber 2,822]

  On 11/10/2024 at 4:15 AM, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Nigel,

I was just thinking that today.

I would absolutely support that. 

And, her sending Trump to Gitmo; she would have the power, SCOTUS said so.

Jerry Baumchen

They would, we won’t. They win, we don’t.