Should Canopy Coaching be #1 route to take to not Femur?

[Liemberg 0]

Sorry if I am 'touching scar tissue' - didn't mean to.

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Note that I didn't say I couldn't land safely; PLF's are a wonderful thing.

Of course, that is the focal point for me too and I can't count the times when I have seen someone turn up in the first shining new jumpsuit and we (my staff and I) made ironic remarks about their choice of colours ("Yellow and Light Blue? Nice!")
Yes, we are insensitive brutes - but after they stained it and washed it we DO help them with avoiding a repeat on a weekly basis... If I had my way then for every student in the first 50 jumps every other landing had to hurt a little, if not physically, then at least "poke their pride a bit" - I find that it helps to get their undivided attention on the most important part of every jump.

I could speculate what would have happened had you made your first 50+ jumps under my guidance, but in the end that means nothing, just speculation.

I make it a point though that there is no place for these things at my DZ and find it hard to believe that you 'would have gotten past me' had you started out at my place with such a bad landing technique as you say you used to have.

You may not have LIKED me for it, but that's another matter...

Informal coaching can and does work in the real world but it's easier at a small cessna-type DZ where it is doable to keep an eye on almost every landing and spot the 'problem children' early on. Some of my 'problem children' have - encouraged by us - made the CHOICE to spend their jump money largely at short freefall and building canopy time. (Any time you go high, for the same price you make two low jumps...)

In my experience this has helped a lot.

I look at what they are doing as much as possible - when jumping goes on, "me and my binoculars are inseparable", so to speak.
I encourage people to film landings and if my cameras are not busy making money, I'll even lend them out for that purpose.

Now if I only can get them to make absolutely f@#$&*g sure that they are not taping their landings over the tandemfootage before it gets on harddisk and put the camera back on the loading station, I'll even might let them grab a camera without asking...."the tripod is in the video-room..."

In all of this, I find myself 'focusing' on the people who 'didn't get it' first time around.

I can imagine that at larger DZ's this doesn't work and I have occasionally frowned upon visiting jumpers from larger DZ's giving a 'substandard landing performance'...

There are a lot of people who can benefit from a structured course, even if it means for the larger part repeating what was or should have been said during the first jump course; one of the downsides of AFF training is that it is a whole lot in a short time so among instructors who teach it a tendency to limit themselves to the absolute basics and put their trust in large canopies and a clear voice over the radio is understandable.
At places like mine that do "static line direct bag" it is a well known fact that with a halfway decent exit the student get's a parachute over the head. (at least, I expect them to...), so extensivly learning them to steer and land during their first 5 to 15 jumps and monitoring their progress comes natural - we've got nothing better to do anyway...

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[chachi 0]

i didn't read all the post but i did read about half.

i think canopy coaching from the start is THE MOST IMPORTANT thing that you can do to not become a statistic. the instruction given to a person that we then give a beginner parachute license to is deplorable.

when you attend a canopy course or get personalized instruction for your level you will now have the knowledge that you really need to develop your skill in the areas that will eventually save you from injury or death.

here is a question? do you think jumps alone will teach you how to fly a canopy when you really dont have the basics? where would you get this correct information if not for coaching.

[johnny1488 1]

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where would you get this correct information if not for coaching.

Books. The internet (dz.com and elsewhere). Manufacturers. Proper instruction from day one.

Jumps alone, no. But jumps with a purpose. Jumps that you work on your flying in freefall and then your flying under canopy. Not just opening so you can live to freefall again.

I believe it all starts with better instruction from the first jump course on.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[chachi 0]

so you think someone could effectively learn if i threw a book at them. why don't we just throw a book of RW @ someone instead of making do coaching jumps one on one before we let them do RW? do you think i could get a good article off the net to teach me all of the things i should know before flying a camera? or would a mentor be better?

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The internet (dz.com and elsewhere

this is perhaps the stupidest comment ever. trying to coach someone on canopy flight over the internet is probably the cause of some of these "femurs"

once you actually go get canopy coaching you will start to realize ALL the things you really didn't know.

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I believe it all starts with better instruction from the first jump course on.

instruction is different from coaching how? now your agreeing with me after having an opposing opinion...

[johnny1488 1]

Well first off, throwing a book at someone would probably hurt them.

Handing them a book would help them. Like The parachute and its pilot for instance. Or any basic book on aerodynamic principles would remove a lot of mysteries of canopy flight. One of the biggest causes of lack of canopy skill is simply not knowing what makes the thing work. Zero talk of canopies and just knowledge of aerodynamics and physics would make someone a more aware canopy pilot.

As far as the internet, I dont know what you were thinking of, but I wasnt talking about internet coaching. I was talking again about reading. PerformanceDesigns.com has plenty of articles specificaly geared towards newer canopy pilots and basic understanding of canopy flight.

And no I dont believe coaching is the same as basic instruction. You need instruction to gain your skydiving license. Once you have your license YOU are responsible for yourself. No one else. You need to seek out information, be it knowledge, coaching, whatever you need to be a safe skydiver.

If we actually tought what is written in the ISP about canopy flight, secondary coaching would be extra knowledge and not a necessity.

I am not against coaching. I am against giving students licenses who are substandard canopy pilots. Stopping the problem at its source would solve a lot of problems.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[chachi 0]

i appreciate your response and i think we both think education would be the best thing.

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One of the biggest causes of lack of canopy skill is simply not knowing what makes the thing work.

i totally disagree with this though. students do not need to know about aerodynamics before they understand how all of the control surfaces work, before they understand patterns, before they start to understand what it takes to be a canopy pilot. brian's book is wicked, but in my opinion nothing is should be a substitute for a canopy program (coaching / instruction / whatever you call it) put in place at the beginning by good canopy coaches. nothing.

[peek 21]

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i didn't read all the post but i did read about half.

i think canopy coaching from the start is THE MOST IMPORTANT thing that you can do to not become a statistic. the instruction given to a person that we then give a beginner parachute license to is deplorable.

when you attend a canopy course or get personalized instruction for your level you will now have the knowledge that you really need to develop your skill in the areas that will eventually save you from injury or death.

here is a question? do you think jumps alone will teach you how to fly a canopy when you really dont have the basics? where would you get this correct information if not for coaching.

OK, I'm confused. I made only one post on this subject and it was a question to NWFlyer.

Are you asking me in particular these questions or did you just happen to click on my post to reply?

[johnny1488 1]

Maybe a change in the AFF instructors course. More (or at least some) focus on how and what to teach students about CC.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[chachi 0]

the reply to feature of this website sux. you just happen to be the lucky one...