wolfriverjoe 1,523
QuoteWho was the dumbass who called them in the first place for a simple tree landing anyway?
"Ooo, Ooo, somebody landed in a tree. Let's call 9-1-1!"
I hope it was some wuffo and not a skydiver.
I'm going to respectfully disagree with this Pops.
At my DZ, the FJC instructor gives the basic instructions (right out of the SIM) on tree landings, then says (more or less) "If you end up in a tree do not try to get down. We will come out to you and evaluate the situation. If you are more than 10 feet up we will call the Fire Dept and they will get you down. More people have been hurt trying to get down and falling than have been hurt by the actual tree landing."
We have a good relationship with the local FD/PD/EMS and they have told us that they would much rather come out and help get someone out of the tree than come out and take someone to the hospital with injuries suffered from falling out of the tree while trying to climb down.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy
"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo
"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo
mutumbo 0
How exactly did he get said lady down?
Thanatos340(on landing rounds)--
Landing procedure: Hand all the way up, Feet and Knees Together and PLF soon as you get bitch slapped by a planet.
Landing procedure: Hand all the way up, Feet and Knees Together and PLF soon as you get bitch slapped by a planet.
Amazon 7
The volunteers, & other hangers on who show up @these things, didn't cost a thing.Quote
Quote
Oh yeah the semi-professional lookie lous, that have police and fire scanners in the car, their garage, their house, their bedrooms
Point 1. Only one person landed in a tree, any they are responsible for their actions.
Point 2. The EMS was never consulted about this activity and their obligation to cover it by the DZ or the jumper, otherwise they could have made the decision to assess a different level of tax for the higher risk activity.
Point 3. Don't want to pay for a service? Don't use it.
Point 2. The EMS was never consulted about this activity and their obligation to cover it by the DZ or the jumper, otherwise they could have made the decision to assess a different level of tax for the higher risk activity.
Point 3. Don't want to pay for a service? Don't use it.
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
Krip 2
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhy not just make them buy the permit thing afterward? Buying the permit card thing doesn't make anyone less likely to need a rescue, it just shows they already contributed to the rescue fund, no difference in the end if they bought it before vs after.
Your missing the entire concept if you need that explained to you.
No, I get it, but I don't think you get how others see the big picture.
When they're on the way to the site of a rescue, they have to be thinking, "I hope they didn't already buy a card."
No, your missing the big picture.
The entities involved get paid for the rescue either way, either through the fund or private payment. The cost and reimbursement should be the same regardless.
Here is the page that better explains what the Colorado Search and Rescue Fund is all about.
Hi pilfy
First I'm not a green hatand this isn't a PA.
But IMO your anti gov't political rant belongs in the Speakers Corner Forum not in the General skydiving forum.
You'll find lots of folks willing to agree and disagree with you and you can debate the Political BS until you wear your fingers to the bone.QuoteThe State & Fed govt.s steal far more monies than they correctly allocate. Rather than scaling back their thievery, & spending public funds as they should. They're trying to steal more wherever they can.
1) The jumper was never informed of these charges. These charges which were so obvious, that they weren't imposed until three months after the event. He had no opportunity to decline the chargeable service. Nor was he even informed about them. On the basis of that alone. They're null & void.
2) The salaried rescue personnel are being paid to sit around the firehouse, anyway. The actual additional cost was only gas for a few vehicles & a chainsaw. They didn't need to fly a $3million helicopter a few hours up into the Rockies. Your Colorado fund rationale doesn't apply, here.
3) The volunteers, & other hangers on who show up @these things, didn't cost a thing.
4) How many ____s does it take to change a lightbulb? There were far more personnel present than needed.
This is an obvious cash grab by some sleazy minion in a Govt. back office. All they're going to get over this. Is a bigger black eye the further they push it.One Jump Wonder
and this isn't a PA.
sundevil777 102
QuotePoint 2. The EMS was never consulted about this activity and their obligation to cover it by the DZ or the jumper, otherwise they could have made the decision to assess a different level of tax for the higher risk activity.
Point 3. Don't want to pay for a service? Don't use it.
The service provider should let those requesting the service know that they will be getting a bill.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am
JALUV2 0
QuotePoint 1. Only one person landed in a tree, any they are responsible for their actions.
Point 2. The EMS was never consulted about this activity and their obligation to cover it by the DZ or the jumper, otherwise they could have made the decision to assess a different level of tax for the higher risk activity.
Point 3. Don't want to pay for a service? Don't use it.
EMS is usually always consulted about special activities and potential hazards in the local communities or are at least aware of such. Pepperell has been in business a long time and I doubt it was the 1st tree landing. I believe they had plenty of time to assess a different level of tax as you say.
As far as not using the service, I am sure they didn't ask him if he wanted their services for a fee and furthermore sounds like they gave him no choice.
The service was already paid for and the obligation is theirs unless they want to stop accepting government,state,local and federal funding and call themselves acme tree service.
Andy9o8 2
QuoteQuotePoint 1. Only one person landed in a tree, any they are responsible for their actions.
Point 2. The EMS was never consulted about this activity and their obligation to cover it by the DZ or the jumper, otherwise they could have made the decision to assess a different level of tax for the higher risk activity.
Point 3. Don't want to pay for a service? Don't use it.
EMS is usually always consulted about special activities and potential hazards in the local communities or are at least aware of such. Pepperell has been in business a long time and I doubt it was the 1st tree landing. I believe they had plenty of time to assess a different level of tax as you say.
As far as not using the service, I am sure they didn't ask him if he wanted their services for a fee and furthermore sounds like they gave him no choice.
The service was already paid for and the obligation is theirs unless they want to stop accepting government,state,local and federal funding and call themselves acme tree service.
Exactly.
http://atomicgator.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/url1.jpg
QuoteQuotePoint 2. The EMS was never consulted about this activity and their obligation to cover it by the DZ or the jumper, otherwise they could have made the decision to assess a different level of tax for the higher risk activity.
Point 3. Don't want to pay for a service? Don't use it.
The service provider should let those requesting the service know that they will be getting a bill.
TANSTAAFL.
Try some personal accountability on for size.
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
sundevil777 102
QuoteQuoteQuotePoint 2. The EMS was never consulted about this activity and their obligation to cover it by the DZ or the jumper, otherwise they could have made the decision to assess a different level of tax for the higher risk activity.
Point 3. Don't want to pay for a service? Don't use it.
The service provider should let those requesting the service know that they will be getting a bill.
TANSTAAFL.
Try some personal accountability on for size.
You got it wrong. Accountability on the part of the govt is what is lacking in this case.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am
PiLFy 3
QuoteThe volunteers, & other hangers on who show up @these things, didn't cost a thing.QuoteQuote
Oh yeah the semi-professional lookie lous, that have police and fire scanners in the car, their garage, their house, their bedrooms
???
PiLFy 3
Quote"Hi pilfy
First I'm not a green hatAngelic and this isn't a PA.
But IMO your anti gov't political rant belongs in the Speakers Corner Forum not in the General skydiving forum.Unimpressed
You'll find lots of folks willing to agree and disagree with you and you can debate the Political BS until you wear your fingers to the bone."
Hola,
I usually try not to talk politics @all. Other than being great @starting fights. It's a waste of time & energy. I only touched on it as it's germane to the topic. I realize there are hordes of Trolls here who love to argue ad nauseum about such things, & their home is in SC. Point taken.
billvon 2,991
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
Let's keep the whole "what taxes should be spent on" thing out of this thread and in SC please. Tree rescues and how to deal with local FD/EMS is an important topic; let's keep the conversation centered on that.
turtlespeed 220
QuoteQuoteQuotePoint 2. The EMS was never consulted about this activity and their obligation to cover it by the DZ or the jumper, otherwise they could have made the decision to assess a different level of tax for the higher risk activity.
Point 3. Don't want to pay for a service? Don't use it.
The service provider should let those requesting the service know that they will be getting a bill.
TANSTAAFL.
Try some personal accountability on for size.
At best - there shuld be a retraction.
At worst there should be a mediation and an itemized bill with affidavits from all that actually worked the scene and an agreement made so that everyone is unhappy.
The next time - there should be the option of utilizing the help with an estimate not to exceed 10% over and above said estimate in writing and delivered by courier, notorized and sealed with the municipalities seal.
that way there are no questions what would happen after the rescue was performed.
It should be a blanket SOP for all accidents and intentional mishaps.
Including, but not limited to:
House Fires
Car accidents(wether the occupants are concious or not) [Lets take some personal responsibility for driving that car]
All Motor vehicle accidents
Pedestrian accidents
Floods
Tornado
Attepts of suicide
And, all other so called acts of God
and all other accidental instances that might require the need of emergency services in any way.
The above has to be signed in triplicate and then sent to a review board for review and approval of credit. Where upon a credit anylist shall perform a credit check to see if this person is able to fund this emergency rescue. Financial aid may be available upon special approval of the Mayor.
Sign Here . . . X______________________________________
OR - the taxes that I have paid and get used up when some stupid ass driver from another state plows into a barricade because he was not paying attention costs the municipalities an actual 10K for scraping his dumb ass out of his car and sending him to the hospital by life flight.
The 10K is an absolute insult and should be a non issue.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
dninness 4
QuoteWho was the dumbass who called them in the first place for a simple tree landing anyway?
"Ooo, Ooo, somebody landed in a tree. Let's call 9-1-1!"
I hope it was some wuffo and not a skydiver.
The first two guys on the scene were a retired NH state trooper who is currently a chief of police, and an active duty Naval Aviator who is a former Navy rescue swimmer.
He was a *ways* up in that tree, too. Not just 30 ft in the air. No, I think it was more like 60 ft or more. The professionals on the scene ascertained that more than one of the packers who likes to climb trees was needed.
NIN
D-19617, AFF-I '19
D-19617, AFF-I '19
QuoteHe was a *ways* up in that tree, too. Not just 30 ft in the air. No, I think it was more like 60 ft or more
Just for reference, some EMTs use the formula that any fall from more then 3 times the height of the patient is considered 'severe'. Using that formula, anything between 15 and 20 would qualify as a 'severe' fall for most people.
Let's keep in mind that once you land in a tree, you're no longer skydiving. You landed, and are now back to being a non-flying creature. So while 40 or 50 ft up in a tree doesn't sound like much in the world of skydiving, it's well over twice what would be considered a severe fall. A botched rescue can easily injure or kill an otherwise healthy (but stuck) jumper.
So in terms of calling or not calling 911, choose carefully, and remember that the well-being of the jumper is the top priority. Just like a guy with a crushed skull and sucking chest wound gets the $30k helicopter ride, maybe the guy in the tree gets the professionals and deals with the 'bill' later.
mutumbo 0
QuoteQuoteHe was a *ways* up in that tree, too. Not just 30 ft in the air. No, I think it was more like 60 ft or more
Just for reference, some EMTs use the formula that any fall from more then 3 times the height of the patient is considered 'severe'. Using that formula, anything between 15 and 20 would qualify as a 'severe' fall for most people.
and add the fact that youre getting the shit knocked outta you on the way by branches, yeah. . . youre looking at a bad day.
Thanatos340(on landing rounds)--
Landing procedure: Hand all the way up, Feet and Knees Together and PLF soon as you get bitch slapped by a planet.
Landing procedure: Hand all the way up, Feet and Knees Together and PLF soon as you get bitch slapped by a planet.
QuoteSo while 40 or 50 ft up in a tree doesn't sound like much in the world of skydiving...
Sounds like about a 4 or 5 story building to me... I don't know any skydivers that wouldn't jump off a 4 or 5 story building.
*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----
turtlespeed 220
QuoteQuoteSo while 40 or 50 ft up in a tree doesn't sound like much in the world of skydiving...
Sounds like about a 4 or 5 story building to me... I don't know any skydivers that wouldn't jump off a 4 or 5 story building.
F$$K no - dude -
BASE Jumpers MAYBE - but not SD
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
Had a situation once at our DZ. Girl landed in tree. Literally hanging by about 10-12 " of fabric caught on a branch with no branches underneath & wind swinging her around. Neighbors called 911.
DZ personal gets there ready to get her down. Cops won't let us do it. 45 minutes, 2 Firetrucks, 6 ambulances & 30-40 Law enforcement & rescue personal later, I finally get out the video camera & start filming while narrating " Here we are, it's been 45 minutes, they won't let us get her down but they are standing around scratching their heads......in the meantime at any minute the wind could knock her down or the branch could break & she's gonna fall 50 feet in front of all these little kids."
The Police chief immediately walked over & asked, "Can your guy really get her down?" I answered , "Yes, he can." He said "OK, go ahead." And about 10 minutes later "Super Dave" had her down.
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