Automakers rethink EVs

[brenthutch 444]

https://www.motortrend.com/features/internal-combustion-engine-is-not-dead-feature-opinion/
 

Ford, for example, has stopped work on a three-row electric-powered SUV, a decision that will reportedly cost the company $1.9 billion. “We could not put together a vehicle that met our requirements to be profitable in the first 12 months of launch,” Ford Motor Company chief financial officer John Lawler said. Ford’s EV division, Model e, reported a $2.5 billion loss for the first half of this year and is expected to lose between $5 billion and $5.5 billion by year’s end.

Meanwhile, Dodge execs are nervously eyeing data that shows, nine months after Dodge Charger and Challenger production ended to pave the way for the launch of their electric-powered successor, 78 percent of Charger owners and 64 percent of Challenger owners say they are simply not interested in buying an EV. This comes as Dodge parent company Stellantis reported a 40 percent slump in operating income for the first half of this year, with CEO Carlos Tavares warning: “We cannot afford to have brands that do not make money. If they don’t make money, we’ll shut them down.”

Now a panicked auto industry is reaching for the e-brake. The internal combustion engine is firmly back on the agenda of product planners and corporate strategists as they plot a path beyond 2030.

It look like reality has caught up with them, just as I said it would. Sorry Olof

[tkhayes 348]

10 hours ago, brenthutch said:

https://www.motortrend.com/features/internal-combustion-engine-is-not-dead-feature-opinion/
 

Ford, for example, has stopped work on a three-row electric-powered SUV, a decision that will reportedly cost the company $1.9 billion. “We could not put together a vehicle that met our requirements to be profitable in the first 12 months of launch,” Ford Motor Company chief financial officer John Lawler said. Ford’s EV division, Model e, reported a $2.5 billion loss for the first half of this year and is expected to lose between $5 billion and $5.5 billion by year’s end.

Meanwhile, Dodge execs are nervously eyeing data that shows, nine months after Dodge Charger and Challenger production ended to pave the way for the launch of their electric-powered successor, 78 percent of Charger owners and 64 percent of Challenger owners say they are simply not interested in buying an EV. This comes as Dodge parent company Stellantis reported a 40 percent slump in operating income for the first half of this year, with CEO Carlos Tavares warning: “We cannot afford to have brands that do not make money. If they don’t make money, we’ll shut them down.”

Now a panicked auto industry is reaching for the e-brake. The internal combustion engine is firmly back on the agenda of product planners and corporate strategists as they plot a path beyond 2030.

It look like reality has caught up with them, just as I said it would. Sorry Olof

Ford stopped building a lot of cars - gas, diesel, all of it.  EV has fuck all to do with it, lots of designs never make it past the design stage.

Let us know when Ford shuts down all EV production and goes 100% v* diesel....  until then, knock off your cherry picked rubbish

11 secret Fords they never built - Motoring Research

ICE will always be around, of course, no one ever said otherwise..... 

[brenthutch 444]

2 hours ago, tkhayes said:

Ford stopped building a lot of cars - gas, diesel, all of it.  EV has fuck all to do with it, lots of designs never make it past the design stage.

Let us know when Ford shuts down all EV production and goes 100% v* diesel....  until then, knock off your cherry picked rubbish

11 secret Fords they never built - Motoring Research

ICE will always be around, of course, no one ever said otherwise..... 

Ford, GM, Mercedes and Stellantis are dropping non-profitable lines, EVs are among those on the chopping block. I agree that EVs might find a niche in the urban areas or as a second runabout vehicle. But the great EV transition is not in the cards. (Sorry Olof and BillV)

[billvon 2,990]

4 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

But the great EV transition is not in the cards. 

True.  It's already on the table and happening.  No need to deal the cards any more.

• In 2024, the revenue in the Electric Vehicles market is projected to reach a staggering US$786.2bn worldwide.
• Looking ahead, it is expected that the market will demonstrate a steady annual growth rate (CAGR 2024-2029) of 6.63%.
• This growth will ultimately lead to a projected market volume of US$1,084.0bn by 2029.
• The unit sales of Electric Vehicles market are anticipated to reach 18.84m vehicles units by 2029.
• When examining the market in 2024, it is predicted that the volume weighted average price of Electric Vehicles market will amount to US$57.5k.
• From an international perspective, it is evident that China will generate the highest revenue, with an estimated US$376,400m in 2024.
• This showcases the significant presence of Electric Vehicles market in the Chinese market segment.
• Electric vehicle adoption is rapidly increasing worldwide, with countries like Norway leading the way in terms of market share.

https://www.statista.com/outlook/mmo/electric-vehicles/worldwide

[tkhayes 348]

8 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Ford, GM, Mercedes and Stellantis are dropping non-profitable lines, EVs are among those on the chopping block. I agree that EVs might find a niche in the urban areas or as a second runabout vehicle. But the great EV transition is not in the cards. (Sorry Olof and BillV)

Ford, GM, Mercedes and Stellantis are dropping non-profitable lines, and have been since their inception.  Nothing to do with EV, but to do with what sells and what they THINK will sell.

What is the 'great EV transition' or is that another new term that you made up just now?

[brenthutch 444]

16 minutes ago, billvon said:

True.  It's already on the table and happening.  No need to deal the cards any more.

• In 2024, the revenue in the Electric Vehicles market is projected to reach a staggering US$786.2bn worldwide.
• Looking ahead, it is expected that the market will demonstrate a steady annual growth rate (CAGR 2024-2029) of 6.63%.
• This growth will ultimately lead to a projected market volume of US$1,084.0bn by 2029.
• The unit sales of Electric Vehicles market are anticipated to reach 18.84m vehicles units by 2029.
• When examining the market in 2024, it is predicted that the volume weighted average price of Electric Vehicles market will amount to US$57.5k.
• From an international perspective, it is evident that China will generate the highest revenue, with an estimated US$376,400m in 2024.
• This showcases the significant presence of Electric Vehicles market in the Chinese market segment.
• Electric vehicle adoption is rapidly increasing worldwide, with countries like Norway leading the way in terms of market share.

https://www.statista.com/outlook/mmo/electric-vehicles/worldwide

Projected, expected, anticipated, predicted and estimated are not observations of what is actually happening. Reality can be a harsh mistress as VW found out.

“Barely 18 months ago Volkswagen Group boss Oliver Blume bullishly announced the company would be spending $193 billion on software, battery factories, and other investments as it pushed to make one in every five models it sold worldwide an EV. But those plans are in tatters today,”

Edited October 11, 2024 by brenthutch

[tkhayes 348]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

Projected, expected, anticipated, predicted and estimated are not observations of what is actually happening. Reality can be a harsh mistress as VW found out.

“Barely 18 months ago Volkswagen Group boss Oliver Blume bullishly announced the company would be spending $193 billion on software, battery factories, and other investments as it pushed to make one in every five models it sold worldwide an EV. But those plans are in tatters today,”

Already answered in my previous answer. But yeah, I get it, you decided to ignore any answer that contradicts your bias.

[billvon 2,990]

3 hours ago, tkhayes said:

What is the 'great EV transition' or is that another new term that you made up just now?

A strawman.  So when EV sales keep climbing he can say "See?  There was no GREAT EV TRANSITION just climbing sales!  There are still gas cars!"

[kallend 2,026]

11 hours ago, tkhayes said:

Ford, GM, Mercedes and Stellantis are dropping non-profitable lines, and have been since their inception.  Nothing to do with EV, but to do with what sells and what they THINK will sell.

What is the 'great EV transition' or is that another new term that you made up just now?

I can't say I've seen an Edsel recently.  Must have been an EV.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

16 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Projected, expected, anticipated, predicted and estimated are not observations of what is actually happening. Reality can be a harsh mistress as VW found out.

So what? Every successful business has to rely on was it expected, projected and estimate and then adjust accordingly.

Quote

I agree that EVs might find a niche in the urban areas

Over 55% of the world's population lives in an urban area. This figure is expected to grow to 70%. Hardly a niche.

[brenthutch 444]

On 10/11/2024 at 1:05 PM, SkyDekker said:

So what? Every successful business has to rely on was it expected, projected and estimate and then adjust accordingly.

Over 55% of the world's population lives in an urban area. This figure is expected to grow to 70%. Hardly a niche.

Agreed, however BillV is conflating projections with “it’s already happening”

About 50% say they won’t consider an EV and about half of EV owners go back to normal vehicles, half of a half is hardly mainstream, funny, considering the EV fanatics predict ICE vehicles would be niche.

Edited October 12, 2024 by brenthutch

[tkhayes 348]

10 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Agreed, however BillV is conflating projections with “it’s already happening”

About 50% say they won’t consider an EV and about half of EV owners go back to normal vehicles, half of a half is hardly mainstream, funny, considering the EV fanatics predict ICE vehicles would be niche.

yet the EV sales still grow while you continuously move the goalposts about what you are talking about

[brenthutch 444]

3 hours ago, tkhayes said:

yet the EV sales still grow while you continuously move the goalposts about what you are talking about

Not me, BillV and Olof predicted a great EV transition, with ICE vehicles relegated to curiosities, when the opposite is true. Goalposts moved indeed.

[tkhayes 348]

4 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Not me, BillV and Olof predicted a great EV transition, with ICE vehicles relegated to curiosities, when the opposite is true. Goalposts moved indeed.

So the term “great EV transition“ isn’t actually a thing, but you’re still using it?

[JoeWeber 2,720]

3 hours ago, tkhayes said:

So the term “great EV transition“ isn’t actually a thing, but you’re still using it?

Yes, well, in the current parlance he is directionally correct.

[richravizza 28]

18 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Not me, BillV and Olof predicted a great EV transition, with ICE vehicles relegated to curiosities, when the opposite is true. Goalposts moved indeed.

Hi brent,

 You have to admire the Toyota approach, the aversion to the the EV market.Chrysler jeep just recalled 150,000 EV, like their profits they  go up..  up in smoke .lol 

I wonder how much they receive in gov't "Help"?  I suppose the point is moot, as we'll just bail them out,again.How does the saying go.. Bad money chasing bad money?

Edited October 13, 2024 by richravizza

[billvon 2,990]

On 10/12/2024 at 6:50 PM, brenthutch said:

Not me, BillV and Olof predicted a great EV transition

Nope.  

You consistently forget that the Internet remembers what you posted in the past.  It makes it very easy to call you out on lies like this.

[Phil1111 1,149]

22 hours ago, richravizza said:

Hi brent,

 You have to admire the Toyota approach, the aversion to the the EV market.Chrysler jeep just recalled 150,000 EV, like their profits they  go up..  up in smoke .lol 

I wonder how much they receive in gov't "Help"?  I suppose the point is moot, as we'll just bail them out,again.How does the saying go.. Bad money chasing bad money?

Hold on Brent is searching for the answer now.

[JerryBaumchen 1,362]

23 hours ago, richravizza said:

Hi brent,

 You have to admire the Toyota approach, the aversion to the the EV market.Chrysler jeep just recalled 150,000 EV, like their profits they  go up..  up in smoke .lol 

I wonder how much they receive in gov't "Help"?  I suppose the point is moot, as we'll just bail them out,again.How does the saying go.. Bad money chasing bad money?

Hi Rich,

Re:  I wonder how much they receive in gov't "Help"?

Do you ever wonder about how much the oil industry receives from gov't "Help"?

Jerry Baumchen

[kallend 2,026]

Flames?  Anyone remember the Ford Pinto?

[winsor 236]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

Flames?  Anyone remember the Ford Pinto?

"Top Secret" had a wonderful Pinto sequence.

[rushmc 23]

EV's have their place. Mandates don't. And they are definitely NOT advantages to the environment. Neither are wind turbines

Edited October 16, 2024 by rushmc

[kallend 2,026]

1 hour ago, rushmc said:

EV's have their place. Mandates don't. And they are definitely NOT advantages to the environment. Neither are wind turbines

Is your company still burning coal?

Edited October 16, 2024 by kallend

[billvon 2,990]

3 hours ago, rushmc said:

Neither are wind turbines

I hear they cause cancer and eat all the dogs and cats.

[brenthutch 444]

On 10/14/2024 at 2:01 PM, billvon said:

Nope.  

You consistently forget that the Internet remembers what you posted in the past.  It makes it very easy to call you out on lies like this.

Except you did, the internet doesn’t forget. While you were not as foolish as Olof who claimed EVs sales would have surpassed ICE vehicles by now , you did lay out a timeline of the transition to EVs. You even said that gasoline prices would drop as demand for gasoline plummeted in response to the EV transition.

Edited October 16, 2024 by brenthutch