wingloading choice

[nigel99 489]

What considerations went into your choice of wingloading? I'm really interested in hearing the non swoop choices.

If it falls into a flaming category (to look cool, canopy was pretty etc) pm and I'll post anonymously.

I'm 1.3 and I wanted more penetration as winds can be consistently high.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[uberchris 0]

i got a GREAT deal on a canopy that is loaded pretty damn high for my experience level, but so far i havent told it to kill me yet!
that is all
1.6, safire2

gravity brings me down.........

[JohnMitchell 16]

I'm loaded 1.3+ and can penetrate in as high of winds as I want to jump in. If I'm backing up, I'm sitting out the next one.

[NWFlyer 2]

uberchris

i got a GREAT deal on a canopy that is loaded pretty damn high for my experience level, but so far i havent told it to kill me yet!
that is all
1.6, safire2

This is the best reason for downsizing for sure, because the money you save on the gear is then available to help you chip away at the medical bills down the road.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[uberchris 0]

it is an AWFUL reason, one made out of pure stupidity, and one that people should NOT ever use as an excuse to downsize. but my reason nonetheless

gravity brings me down.........

[nigel99 489]

I'm sort of hoping we can avoid making a judgement on the stupidity of some peoples choices - hence my offer to provide anonymous posts.

I get people wanting a high wingloading for swooping, but it was in a conversation recently where I really had to reconsider my rational.

To some extent I think there is a bit of following the herd - everyone jumps a sub-170/150 so that is what I'll do etc.

I've committed to my canopy know and am learning it, but hindsight being 20/20, loading up a 170 made for more relaxed landing patterns.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Pacific 0]

I didn't choose my current canopy or its size based on wingloading. I bought my current canopy based on my demo experiences. I demoed several canopies which varied in size(+- 30 sq ft.). I ended up picking the middle size while not exceeding the manufacturer's maximum exit weight. The bonus was that it still fit nicely into my container. The wing loading ended up being 1.6

[DSE 5]

nigel99

I'm sort of hoping we can avoid making a judgement on the stupidity of some peoples choices - hence my offer to provide anonymous posts.

I get people wanting a high wingloading for swooping, but it was in a conversation recently where I really had to reconsider my rational.

To some extent I think there is a bit of following the herd - everyone jumps a sub-170/150 so that is what I'll do etc.

I've committed to my canopy know and am learning it, but hindsight being 20/20, loading up a 170 made for more relaxed landing patterns.

So...you're the slow truck on the freeway, others are complaining you're not fast enough and they don't want to go around you?

At the end of the day, it's your hospital visit or funeral to have... but it seems odd you'd be asking for advice on what's the best way to put yourself into a corner when you and most others know it's not a good place to be.

There are factors you're not mentioning here. Wingloading also needs to factor in density altitude.
We've just experienced a fatality that may well not have occurred at sea level in a lower-temperature environment, for example. The wingloading was high, but not 'instant death' high.

My considerations fell into Billvon's downsizing checklist (without knowing it existed).
Can you manage the current canopy in *all* situations? High temps, high density altitude, downwind, crosswind, accuracy, etc? If not...probably not a good idea.
Going from a square to semi-elliptical? Full elliptical?

What advice did the most conservative, longest-experience jumper at your DZ tell you, based on their observations of your skillset?

[Squeak 17]

JohnMitchell

I'm loaded 1.3+ and can penetrate in as high of winds as I want to jump in. If I'm backing up, I'm sitting out the next one.

what he said.
I previously loaded my current canopy at almost 1.6, but lost a few kg and now load at 1.32.. effectively UPSIZING

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[JeffCa 0]

I just bought my first canopy, but have not taken delivery yet. It will have a wingloading of about 0.95. I used the combined wisdom of members of this site, the manufacturer's recommendation, my instructors, and the Brian Germain chart in making my decision. Luckily, all are in general agreement. I've never jumped a canopy smaller than the one I bought, and am a little frightened to try at this point in my progression. My DZ doesn't seem to have the "downsizing culture", and my canopy should do me well for a few years, given that I can only do in the range of 75-150 jumps per year.

"So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

[Quagmirian 40]

I jump rental equipment in the 0.76 range, and I've recently realised that that is too high a wing loading for me.

[nigel99 489]

DSE - bit of miscommunication. I'm not asking for advice on what wingloading. I'm curious as to people's reasons.

At a personal level, I didn't like going straight down/backwards in a stiff breeze. I don't go backward/straight down anymore, but as usual in life other trade offs come into play.

I was told I could downsize some 4 to 6 months and a whole bunch of jumps before I did (I had the 150 sitting in my bag the whole time).

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[nigel99 489]

Squeak

***I'm loaded 1.3+ and can penetrate in as high of winds as I want to jump in. If I'm backing up, I'm sitting out the next one.

what he said.
I previously loaded my current canopy at almost 1.6, but lost a few kg and now load at 1.32.. effectively UPSIZING

I agree - at 1.3 its fine, at 1 it was trickier (but still so many outs it was preference to not go straight down/backwards).

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[devildog 0]

JohnMitchell

I'm loaded 1.3+ and can penetrate in as high of winds as I want to jump in. If I'm backing up, I'm sitting out the next one.

Pretty much this. Loaded at a 1.3 here and have no intentions of going past that.

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[Southern_Man 0]

Squeak

***I'm loaded 1.3+ and can penetrate in as high of winds as I want to jump in. If I'm backing up, I'm sitting out the next one.

what he said.
I previously loaded my current canopy at almost 1.6, but lost a few kg and now load at 1.32.. effectively UPSIZING

I am currently loaded 1.25 but I really, really need to lost 20 lbs.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[hillson 0]

Generally tried to stay within a nine iron of BG's WL chart coupled with ensuring that I can can perform all of the stuff out there on the various canopy flight / downsizing checklists. Also take a canopy course at least every 6 months and any time I get a new wing.

In all honesty I've sort of "caught up" to the recommended advancement of ".1 per 100" as I was always a little over the "middle of the range" number but not really anything outrageous (.05 to .1, depending). As such, my next change will be something different at the same size. I'm ~1.38-1.4+ depending on lead, beer weight, mid-30s random weight changes etc and am fairly happy with the WL.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

I fly a Sabre2 170 at around 1.2. It's "sporty" enough for me.

I've downsized once, from the 190 that was my first canopy, loaded almost exactly 1:1.

I don't really plan on going any smaller.

I don't jump enough to be super current. I like a bigger, slower canopy. I know my limitations.
I'm approaching 50, and don't need to swoop or take any unnecessary risks on landing.
I can penetrate any wind that I'll jump in.
I can keep up with most of the others in the air, at least well enough to not be a traffic hazard.
I bought a new container a couple years ago that fits the 170 perfectly.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Ron 10]

I started with a 0.7 WL (Raven II 220sqft) put 200-250 jumps on it.

I then transitioned through a bunch of canopies (Blue Tracks, Sabres, Batwings, Esprits...etc) working my way down to a Stiletto 97. I then up sized to an ST120 at about 1.4

I then put ~600-700 jumps on the ST120 and worked my way down through a bunch of canopies to an ST 107 (~1.6WL). Then I started with the FX series of canopies. I had an 88, and put some jumps on the 69. (1.8 and 2.3). this was back in 1996.

I found the 2.3WL was a stunt each and every time I jumped it. I could not do AFF since a bad spot was a BIG deal at a 2.3WL and 4way was so much work that for me doing 4way and then a super hot landing was just so much work that either one or the other suffered.

The 1.8 was better, but the damn thing opened like crap so I went back to my ST107 that was still in the closet.

I went to a Velo96 (1.7WL) and it was great. But I needed two canopy's and I had two 107's so I got rid of the Velo.

I now have over 3000 jumps on Stiletto 107's. While I'd like to buy two new Velo 96's.... I am doing less and less jumping and more and more flying and I'd rather spend the few thousand dollars on buying my next plane.

So I continue to jump Stiletto 107's at ~1.5/1.6 since I am really comfortable with them (+3k jumps) and too cheap to drop several thousand dollars when I would rather save up for a Pitts S-1. Further, since I only do 200ish jumps a year now... I should stick with what I know.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[DrewEckhardt 0]

nigel99

I'm 1.3 and I wanted more penetration as winds can be consistently high.

Learn to spot. It'll do a _much_ better job getting you back than a higher wing loading (in an ideal world the speed increase would be proportional to the square root of wingloading which means downsizing from a 170 to a 150 would net just 7% more air speed, although your frontal area doesn't change and the lines get shorter but not thinner so in practice you don't do that well). If some one wants to complain about you not getting out down-wind let them go first and walk back.

There are very few situations where I'd be willing to jump my 105 swoop canopy but not my 245 accuracy setup and none where I'd jump the 105 but not a modern 9 cell at a pound per square foot.

[Zlew 0]

more specifically answering the question of why higher loadings when not primarily a swooper-

Few things-
fwd airpeed
pressurization/rigidity of the wing
responsiveness and general way the wings fly. probably the top reason
ability to still fly slow as needed (I fly camera so needing to land last is common)


My two wingloadings are about 1.65 and about 1.8

[wmw999 2,452]

I'm another one with an excellent reason. My container holds a 150, but I didn't like the 150 that came with it, and the replacement happened to be a 135. I love packing when it's not too hard, so I've stayed with my current wingloading of about 1.3 (with gear and weights).

My next canopy will almost certainly be larger than my current one, just a low-bulk fabric.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[popsjumper 2]

I'm 1:1
I don't care about speed, slow precision is good.
I just want to get to the ground safely for my age.

Absurd notion that 1:1 or 1:2 is gonna cause problems for others or be your hospital visit or funeral.
Oh, the irony.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[GooniesKid 0]

Quagmirian

I jump rental equipment in the 0.76 range, and I've recently realised that that is too high a wing loading for me.

No offense, but you are kidding right? .76 WL and you think it's too high a WL? Are you trolling?

Only reason why is because my WL is also around .7 and i dont think it's too high for me..in fact, if i got say a 170 i'd still be under 1.0.

[excaza 1]

If he feels it's too high for him, then it's too high. He's not telling anyone else to make the same choice.

[Zlew 0]

He is building his own canopies, and maybe that comment is based on that.

unless there is a physical or medical issue, I would be a little concerned if someone really didn't feel safe at a .7 loading. there may be a few exceptions to that, but that is usually in the mid to low range for students. maybe they just like bigger wings, but if they feel they need to go to a lower loading for safety....i'd love to hear the story/reasoning.

most of my student training was at about .78. some of it closer to .9 . even with just a few jumps that seemed conservative. as an instructor, that .8 range was usually the guideline for gear selection for students.