Progressivism equals Fascism

[brenthutch 444]

1 hour ago, tkhayes said:

Socialism is left wing, kinda further left than most countries in Europe for example,. but not as far left as communism.

Fascism is extreme right wing

Political spectrum 101.  back to school with you.

Think of it as less than a spectrum and more of a circle. At the top of the circle are classical liberals and libertarians. As the left moves further left and the right moves further right they transit down the circle and ultimately converge at the bottom. That is where Hitler meets Mao. Class dismissed 

[JoeWeber 2,720]

31 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Read a bit on the early progressive movement. Margret Sanger? Woodrow Wilson?

You read a bit about the changing meanings of words over time, I promise you won't find it awful.  

[wmw999 2,444]

45 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Read a bit on the early progressive movement. Margret Sanger? Woodrow Wilson?

Oh, I know, and Theodore Roosevelt, too!

Wendy P. 

[tkhayes 348]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Think of it as less than a spectrum and more of a circle. At the top of the circle are classical liberals and libertarians. As the left moves further left and the right moves further right they transit down the circle and ultimately converge at the bottom. That is where Hitler meets Mao. Class dismissed 

I actually AM thinking of it as a circle.  Authoritarianism exists at both ends of the political spectrum....But it is still Left and/or right.  The fact that they are authoritarian is the ONLY resemblance.

Socialism is still left and fascism is still right.  And you still have no fucking idea what you are talking about.

I already said.  back to school with you.  And don't ever 'dismiss me', I actually made my point, you are just dumb enough to ignore it.

Reminder that your original post was not any sort of educational reference, quote, or scholarly thought on the process.... you quoted something from Reddit.... I mean seriously?  This is where you get your info?

 

Edited October 25, 2024 by tkhayes

[jakee 1,489]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Class dismissed 

So you’re just going to skip straight over the demonstrable stupidity and ignorance of the quote you posted and just continue to pretend like you’re some kind of authority? 

[JoeWeber 2,720]

Post #25 Brent said: "Read a bit on the early progressive movement."   He doesn't even realize that he shape shifts for convenience. No longer is it the present tense to defend because that's too awful. That I find awe full, for sure.

[jakee 1,489]

6 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Read a bit on the early progressive movement. Margret Sanger? Woodrow Wilson?

Margaret Sanger’s contribution to progressive politics was to campaign for women to have access to contraception.

Thank you Brent, for confirming that no matter what lies they tell the current Republican movement does indeed view access to condoms and the pill as a socialist evil to be stamped out as soon as possible.

[nigel99 471]

7 minutes ago, jakee said:

Margaret Sanger’s contribution to progressive politics was to campaign for women to have access to contraception.

Thank you Brent, for confirming that no matter what lies they tell the current Republican movement does indeed view access to condoms and the pill as a socialist evil to be stamped out as soon as possible.

The parallels between MAGA and eastern theocracies are mind blowing. Tends to reinforce my view that religion is toxic or a mental illness. 

[winsor 236]

14 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Read a bit on the early progressive movement. Margret Sanger? Woodrow Wilson?

One Benito Mussolini, a life long Socialist, editor of the Socialist paper "Avanti!," claimed authorship of "The Doctrine of Fascism."

The origins of Fascism lie on the Left, not the Right.

[winsor 236]

7 hours ago, nigel99 said:

The parallels between MAGA and eastern theocracies are mind blowing. Tends to reinforce my view that religion is toxic or a mental illness. 

It's both.  MAGA and WOKE quality nicely.

Religion is but a communicable form of mental illness.

[gowlerk 2,190]

1 hour ago, winsor said:

The origins of Fascism lie on the Left, not the Right.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter and yet another's fascist. But the word was first used by Mussolini who was not a socialist or communist in any sense. 

Historian Ian Kershaw once wrote that "trying to define 'fascism' is like trying to nail jelly to the wall"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism

[Phil1111 1,149]

7 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter and yet another's fascist. But the word was first used by Mussolini who was not a socialist or communist in any sense. 

Historian Ian Kershaw once wrote that "trying to define 'fascism' is like trying to nail jelly to the wall"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism

You might find this interesting from NYT  Is It Fascism? A Leading Historian Changes His Mind.

Robert Paxton(92 years old) thought the label was overused. But now he’s alarmed by what he sees in global politics — including Trumpism."

[tkhayes 348]

9 hours ago, winsor said:

One Benito Mussolini, a life long Socialist, editor of the Socialist paper "Avanti!," claimed authorship of "The Doctrine of Fascism."

The origins of Fascism lie on the Left, not the Right.

Bullshit. There is nothing you can find anywhere, any educational, scholarly, or other reference to say that fascism is a left-wing movement.

you do know that we can hear you right?

The Nazis also called themselves the socialist party, but that’s like North Korea calling himself the “Democratic Republic of Korea”

You do know that the names in the titles don’t actually mean anything right?

Edited October 26, 2024 by tkhayes

[billvon 2,990]

22 minutes ago, tkhayes said:

The Nazis also called themselves the socialist party, but that’s like North Korea calling himself the “Democratic Republic of Korea”

It would not surprise me to hear conservatives starting to conflate North Korea with democracy so they can attack it.  That gives them a convenient out when they support an anti-democratic dictator, and already I've seen several conservatives on Facebook saying "it's not a democracy, it's a republic, idiot liberals!"

[JoeWeber 2,720]

13 minutes ago, billvon said:

It would not surprise me to hear conservatives starting to conflate North Korea with democracy so they can attack it.  That gives them a convenient out when they support an anti-democratic dictator, and already I've seen several conservatives on Facebook saying "it's not a democracy, it's a republic, idiot liberals!"

Kim Jong Un-woke?

[billvon 2,990]

On 10/23/2024 at 8:39 PM, ryoder said:

War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.

"The Ministry of Truth – Minitrue, in Newspeak – was startlingly different from any other object in sight. It was an enormous pyramidal structure of glittering white concrete, soaring up, terrace after terrace, 300 metres into the air. From where Winston stood it was just possible to read, picked out on its white face in elegant lettering, the three slogans of the Party:

  WAR IS PEACE
  FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
  IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH"

Perhaps Orwell would have added this new fourth one if he were still around.

[JerryBaumchen 1,362]

17 hours ago, billvon said:

It would not surprise me to hear conservatives starting to conflate North Korea with democracy so they can attack it.  That gives them a convenient out when they support an anti-democratic dictator, and already I've seen several conservatives on Facebook saying "it's not a democracy, it's a republic, idiot liberals!"

Hi Bill,

Here is another case where the words are meaningless:  The group describes itself as volunteers with United Sovereign Americans

Election integrity doubters pressing unsupported claims get warm reception in Clackamas County - oregonlive.com

There is more than one way to skin a cat; oops, I mean to 'win' election.

Jerry Baumchen

[ryoder 1,590]

Tonights topic from Heather Cox Richardson is the 1945 "Army Talk Orientation Fact Sheet #64 - Fascism".

Heather Cox Richardson - Letters from an American - October 26, 2024

She includes a link to the full text of it, but you may find this one easier to read:

Full text of "Army Talk Orientation Fact Sheet #64 - Fascism!"

Of course, just like every other aspect of the MAGA SOP, whenever they accuse their opponents of engaging in something, it means they are already doing it themselves.

[Phil1111 1,149]

8 hours ago, ryoder said:

Tonights topic from Heather Cox Richardson is the 1945 "Army Talk Orientation Fact Sheet #64 - Fascism".

Heather Cox Richardson - Letters from an American - October 26, 2024

She includes a link to the full text of it, but you may find this one easier to read:

Full text of "Army Talk Orientation Fact Sheet #64 - Fascism!"

Of course, just like every other aspect of the MAGA SOP, whenever they accuse their opponents of engaging in something, it means they are already doing it themselves.

"In the first century BC, a Roman statesman named Publius Rutilius Rufus—who was famed for having high integrity—was prosecuted for and convicted of extortion. According to historians of that era, this was an unjust act of revenge by corrupt officials because Rufus had stopped them from overtaxing citizens and pocketing the excess money.

Modern philosophers Ryan Holiday and Stephen Hanselman describe the tactic used against Rufus like this:

Accuse the honest man of precisely the opposite of what they’re doing, of the sin you yourself are doing. Use their reputation against them. Muddy the waters. Stain them with lies."

"Hitler’s minister of propaganda—the infamous Joseph Goebbels—was well aware of the tactic of projection and brazenly accused Germany’s opponents of utilizing it. “The cleverest trick used in propaganda against Germany,” said Goebbels in a 1934 speech, “was to accuse Germany of what our enemies themselves were doing.”

So trump was a Roman Senator thief in another life then became Goebbels which morphed into trump.

Edited October 27, 2024 by Phil1111

[nigel99 471]

On 10/26/2024 at 11:55 AM, billvon said:

It would not surprise me to hear conservatives starting to conflate North Korea with democracy so they can attack it.  That gives them a convenient out when they support an anti-democratic dictator, and already I've seen several conservatives on Facebook saying "it's not a democracy, it's a republic, idiot liberals!"

Well Comical Ali from Iraq would not even be newsworthy now. 

[brenthutch 444]

On 10/25/2024 at 8:31 PM, tkhayes said:

Bullshit. There is nothing you can find anywhere, any educational, scholarly, or other reference to say that fascism is a left-wing movement.

you do know that we can hear you right?

The Nazis also called themselves the socialist party, but that’s like North Korea calling himself the “Democratic Republic of Korea”

You do know that the names in the titles don’t actually mean anything right?

You didn’t look very hard

“One person who understands this is Jonah Goldberg, author of the 2007 book Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left from Mussolini to the Politics of Meaning.  Ten years on, the book still holds up.  Goldberg argues, provocatively, that fascism shared roots in common with what we call modern liberalism or progressivism.”

[jakee 1,489]

19 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

You didn’t look very hard

“One person who understands this is Jonah Goldberg, author of the 2007 book Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left from Mussolini to the Politics of Meaning.  Ten years on, the book still holds up.  Goldberg argues, provocatively, that fascism shared roots in common with what we call modern liberalism or progressivism.”

Right, but Jonah is like you - a professional bullshit artist whose actual job it is to say anything that denigrates the left and promotes the right.

It's pretty clear that TK meant a reference from some sort of actualy scholarly research. I'll grant you he screwed up by saying "or other" - which obviously allowed you to retort with 'hey this guy I found shouting at birds while fishing old boots out of the dumpster agrees with me so victory is mine!' but I'm sure you'll agree that is the proverbial sound and fury, signifying nothing.

For bonus points, is the current Italian ruling party, in power today, that genuinely idolises Mussolini from the right or the left? Even if I didn't already know, I guarantee you I'd have guessed correctly, though apparently you wouldn't. Why is that?

Edited October 29, 2024 by jakee

[tkhayes 348]

45 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

You didn’t look very hard

“One person who understands this is Jonah Goldberg, author of the 2007 book Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left from Mussolini to the Politics of Meaning.  Ten years on, the book still holds up.  Goldberg argues, provocatively, that fascism shared roots in common with what we call modern liberalism or progressivism.”

10 years on, the book still holds up in the circle of people who believe that bullshit.

Is that the only reference that you could find? The only single thing that you could find to back up your bullshit?

https://www.britannica.com/topic/fascism

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/fascism
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/fascism

you didn’t look very hard either.

[JerryBaumchen 1,362]

9 minutes ago, tkhayes said:

10 years on, the book still holds up in the circle of people who believe that bullshit.

Is that the only reference that you could find? The only single thing that you could find to back up your bullshit?

https://www.britannica.com/topic/fascism

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/fascism
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/fascism

you didn’t look very hard either.

Hi tk,

Did you expect him to?

Jerry Baumchen

 

[gowlerk 2,190]

1 hour ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi tk,

Did you expect him to?

Jerry Baumchen

 

He has pretty much succeeded in dragging them down into the dirt with though, hasn't he?