Global shift to the right

[olofscience 480]

This is basically expected - with other countries electing rightwing populists like Geert Wilders, Milei, Duterte, Orban, etc. Labour winning here in the UK is a fluke - the UK isn't going left, it's just the right was divided between two parties. I am under no illusions that this rightwing march will continue, globally.

So why is this happening? Basically, most people are unhappy for a mix of reasons, and they feel that there's something wrong with the system, but can't quite pinpoint what it is. They also somehow feel that it was better in the past - and in some ways they would be right!

So they vote for the craziest outsider who tries to simplify the problem (e.g. immigration, wokeism, drugs). If that doesn't work, they throw them out and vote for the next person promising a solution.

 

Duterte was elected in 2016, and he blamed all his country's problems on drugs. It's a simple problem, he said. He promised to "solve the country's problems within 6 months" of getting elected. Upon election, he then embarked on a massacre of 30,000 people. This was back in 2016. No points for guessing whether this worked (it didn't).

 

For western countries it's immigration. True, unemployment is pretty low. But those jobs don't pay well, and people are unhappy with those jobs. It feels right to blame immigrants for creaking infrastructure (too many people) and high house prices (too much demand, not enough supply). Not enough money for infrastructure and services (we're spending too much on immigrants' welfare!)  On the surface this explanation sounds right and rightwing people don't look any further. Leftwing people mostly don't either - we just try to "disprove" the talking points like how immigrants help the economy, etc. But we don't offer an alternative explanation of the causes of the problems.

 

But the rightwing people aren't lying about their unhappiness - jobs don't pay well. Infrastructure IS overwhelmed. House prices are WAY too high. But they've missed the actual root cause.

 

In any case, I'm not going to discuss the actual root causes right now. But I'm going to make a prediction - 4 years from now, the rightwing people will be as unhappy as ever. They'll get some dopamine hits from "owning the libs", but they won't be happy, and their problems won't be solved with 4 more years of Trump. No matter what problems come in the next 4 years, Brent for example will blame the left for either causing it, or "allowing" it to happen. The right won't take responsibility for any problems that will happen, because despite being in control, they don't feel in control. And they don't feel in control because despite what they say, they don't really know the root cause of the problems. Only understanding will stop the fear.

 

Edited November 6, 2024 by olofscience

[jakee 1,500]

The old politics of left and right doesn’t exist anymore, it’s the politics of reality vs fantasy now. 

[nigel99 490]

Really good post. 

[gowlerk 2,216]

Fear and anger 3, hope and joy 0. And a person can’t even hope that the dotard is called home by the lord because JD is backing him up from behind.

Canada is most likely going to see a shift to the right next year. 

[rushmc 23]

What's wrong is easy to identify. 

 

The people are tired of those elected not listening to them. Political elites, on both sides, do not like people who think and vote on their own as opposed as being sheep and vote as they are told

[wmw999 2,453]

2 minutes ago, rushmc said:

What's wrong is easy to identify. 

 

The people are tired of those elected not listening to them. Political elites, on both sides, do not like people who think and vote on their own as opposed as being sheep and vote as they are told

Interesting that you don’t think all of the people to DO agree with progressive goals are worthy of consideration. Because do you really think the country is going to listen to what we want now?

We’re real, and just as much here as the conservatives. And if you look at news sources, and how many of them want to make sure you know who your “enemies” are (as opposed to countrymen who don’t share all the same opinions), it’s easy to see why we’re angrier and angrier about it. 

Wendy P. 

[SkyDekker 1,465]

57 minutes ago, rushmc said:

The people are tired of those elected not listening to them. Political elites, on both sides, do not like people who think and vote on their own as opposed as being sheep and vote as they are told

Interesting considering Trump still doesn't accept the 2020 vote.

[JerryBaumchen 1,371]

Hi olof,

For some reason, I cannot Reply to your post; so I will do it this way.

Re:  4 years from now, the rightwing people will be as unhappy as ever. 

Just wait until they see those higher prices that tariffs will bring.

And, can anyone tell me just how a POTUS lowers housing prices?

If anything, housing is a true supply & demand system.  Or, as Will Rogers said, 'Buy land, they are not making anymore of it.'

Then who's ox will be getting gored?

Jerry Baumchen

 

[base698 15]

https://x.com/cremieuxrecueil/status/1854189406946558447?s=46

> Texas swung so far to the right that it might've picked up MAJORITIES of Hispanics and Asians.

 

All the gays and Asians I know that fled California in the same time frame I left were pretty based.  Seems similar in Florida.

People used to be concerned about us voting wrong, they are not concerned anymore. 

Edited November 6, 2024 by base698

[billeisele 130]

17 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi olof,

For some reason, I cannot Reply to your post; so I will do it this way.

Re:  4 years from now, the rightwing people will be as unhappy as ever. 

Just wait until they see those higher prices that tariffs will bring.

And, can anyone tell me just how a POTUS lowers housing prices?

If anything, housing is a true supply & demand system.  Or, as Will Rogers said, 'Buy land, they are not making anymore of it.'

Then who's ox will be getting gored?

Jerry Baumchen

 

It's interesting that no one is connecting the dots of illegals needing a place to live decreases supply. To know if it's an issue one first has to know how many illegals there are. The last reliable number of 11 million was in 2022. In 2023 DHS reported 2 million that they interacted with. No idea on how many more weren't contacted.

In SC they've noted that a large number of formally private residences are owned by housing corporations and investment groups. They buy them for rental. That takes those homes off the market for family ownership. That decreases supply. Who knows what the overall impact is.

[JoeWeber 2,731]

14 minutes ago, billeisele said:

It's interesting that no one is connecting the dots of illegals needing a place to live decreases supply. To know if it's an issue one first has to know how many illegals there are. The last reliable number of 11 million was in 2022. In 2023 DHS reported 2 million that they interacted with. No idea on how many more weren't contacted.

In SC they've noted that a large number of formally private residences are owned by housing corporations and investment groups. They buy them for rental. That takes those homes off the market for family ownership. That decreases supply. Who knows what the overall impact is.

Could be, but some actual data would be nice; a taco truck in the driveway and a piñata hanging from a tree might be persuasive. The problem is that to rent a house you need to prove you can pay the rent, that usually means a credit rating, an application in english, and a job. So even if the renter isn't legally documented, and we can safely guess no one in Mexico or Honduras is sending them money, they must have a job or possibly two jobs. So, as those jobs weren't made up for the purposes of international relations, we should have a solid idea about happens to those businesses, and the general economy, when those workers are no longer available. 

 

[olofscience 480]

1 hour ago, billeisele said:

It's interesting that no one is connecting the dots of illegals needing a place to live decreases supply.

Millions of people have connected those dots.

But are they the right dots? You've stopped looking.

[normiss 805]

Can we start with the actual, truthful meaning or interpretation of "illegal"?

To many white wingers, it simply means brown skin.

Meanwhile, many suspected of being an "illegal" are simply here and in the process, legally.

[nigel99 490]

15 minutes ago, normiss said:

Can we start with the actual, truthful meaning or interpretation of "illegal"?

To many white wingers, it simply means brown skin.

Meanwhile, many suspected of being an "illegal" are simply here and in the process, legally.

Elon Musk? 

[wmw999 2,453]

2 hours ago, billeisele said:

It's interesting that no one is connecting the dots of illegals needing a place to live decreases supply. To know if it's an issue one first has to know how many illegals there are. The last reliable number of 11 million was in 2022. In 2023 DHS reported 2 million that they interacted with. No idea on how many more weren't contacted.

In SC they've noted that a large number of formally private residences are owned by housing corporations and investment groups. They buy them for rental. That takes those homes off the market for family ownership. That decreases supply. Who knows what the overall impact is.

One thing to consider is that a lot (if not most) undocumented aliens live in households that include citizens and legal residents. So those places are already in use. Another is the disruptive effect of Airbnb and to a lesser extent VRBO and the like. Desirable places that people visit have up to 25% of their housing in use by guests like that. Yeah, the owner gets more money, but we as a country do an excellent job of letting people make more money if they already have some. It’s much harder to convince people that it’s in their interests to give others a leg up “at their expense.” Because most Americans think they earned everything they have, including good parenting, access to good schools, mental health, and a support structure with good examples  

Wendy P. 

[SkyDekker 1,465]

1 hour ago, nigel99 said:

Elon Musk? 

Melania Trump.

[jakee 1,500]

On 11/6/2024 at 5:02 PM, rushmc said:

The people are tired of those elected not listening to them. Political elites, on both sides, do not like people who think and vote on their own as opposed as being sheep and vote as they are told

Doesn;t make any sense though, does it? Politicians on the right tell people to vote right wing. Right wing media tells people to vote right wing. Republican politicians don't like people voting Democrat like Dem politicians don't like people voting Republican. 

The only difference is that most or all Democrats are capable of accepting that people did in fact vote Republican, while many Republicans will go to their graves claiming that the Democrats who voted against them don't even exist.

[tkhayes 348]

All the world war II vets are dead so no one left to tell the stories.  On top of that, we dismantled education so young voters do not even know what democracy is and do not care about it.  We also normalized criminals and corruption.  The USA in the best case? Trump does nothing and accomplished nothing, he just wanted to get elected to avoid going to jail and he plays golf for four years.. 

Option 2, the worst case is we are Russia in less than 2 years.

Whatever damage that will be done will be severe damage, and likely will never be able to be undone.

His advisors want option 2.

Ukraine is finished.  This will upset the world economy, shortages of everything, and probably create numerous other wars in eastern Europe, but we will not participate.  NATO is at risk.  USA will in fact become isolationist and ignore any allies we have unless it benefits Trump himself.

Elon Musk and Bezos types quadruple their wealth, but Trump controls ALL business because they need to trump to continue to loot the country and he can hurt any of them same as he can hurt anything in the country with total control of all branches of government.  Tariffs will tank the economy but the same people that voted for Trump will cheer it on because afterall, Elon Musk told them that there would be hard times, and they voted for it anyway.

There will be no need to pass legislation, nor even do executive orders, as just dictating will not be reigned in by Congress.  Citizens and groups will sue and take to the Supreme Court but they will kick it out because it is Congress's job and afterall, there is nothing in the Constitution that says Congress MUST do their job.  And even if compelled, the Supreme Court will be ignored because they have no enforcement mechanism and there will be no impeachments or removals.... ever.... again... because immunity was already established.

The first protests by women, probably early in 2025 will be met with military force, as promised, and there will never be any protests again.  Trump will pass a nationwide abortion ban against ALL forms of abortion for ANY reason if it is presented to him because afterall, he does not actually care and he will say 'well these things are up to Congress, I am not making the decision, they are'.

Does anyone know what happened to all the election fraud that happened in PA?  Oh wait, Trump won, so it 'was the most beautiful election ever... the greatest election in the history of the country'.

 

I'm out.  any resistance is futile, fuck this country and every that it stands for.  I no longer recognize the place that I worked so hard to call home.  Dystopian.

[JoeWeber 2,731]

3 hours ago, normiss said:

Can we start with the actual, truthful meaning or interpretation of "illegal"?

In many cases it means packers, TI's, and grounds people. But never in the case of a DZ where folks are concerned about our southern border. And too often they are making so much money they are buying houses out from under Doctors and Lawyers.

[gowlerk 2,216]

12 minutes ago, tkhayes said:

I'm out.  any resistance is futile, fuck this country and every that it stands for.  I no longer recognize the place that I worked so hard to call home. 

No need to be so dark. These things ebb and flow. The people of the nation did not really change. There will be policy shifts that you and I find discouraging and there will be strong resistance as well. Giving up is not an option nor is it necessary. The constitution may take a bruising but it will still stand despite the temporary setback. 

[SkyDekker 1,465]

17 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

These things ebb and flow.

So does the ocean, tsunamis still suck though.

[nigel99 490]

27 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

No need to be so dark. These things ebb and flow. The people of the nation did not really change. There will be policy shifts that you and I find discouraging and there will be strong resistance as well. Giving up is not an option nor is it necessary. The constitution may take a bruising but it will still stand despite the temporary setback. 

I disagree with you. Empires come and go, this is another step of America in that direction and it’s a big one.

[JerryBaumchen 1,371]

5 hours ago, billeisele said:

It's interesting that no one is connecting the dots of illegals needing a place to live decreases supply. To know if it's an issue one first has to know how many illegals there are. The last reliable number of 11 million was in 2022. In 2023 DHS reported 2 million that they interacted with. No idea on how many more weren't contacted.

In SC they've noted that a large number of formally private residences are owned by housing corporations and investment groups. They buy them for rental. That takes those homes off the market for family ownership. That decreases supply. Who knows what the overall impact is.

Hi Bill,

As I said:  If anything, housing is a true supply & demand system.

Are you now against free enterprise?

Jerry Baumchen

[JerryBaumchen 1,371]

Hi folks,

Re:  Just wait until they see those higher prices that tariffs will bring.

Here you go:  Trump tariffs would hit these stock-market sectors the hardest | Morningstar

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  I think that they call it free enterprise.

[tkhayes 348]

50 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

No need to be so dark. These things ebb and flow. The people of the nation did not really change. There will be policy shifts that you and I find discouraging and there will be strong resistance as well. Giving up is not an option nor is it necessary. The constitution may take a bruising but it will still stand despite the temporary setback. 

my point is/was  the guardrails no longer exist, so the constitution does matter if there is no mechanism to enforce it. 

Western Canada is spouting much of the same rhetoric in recent years that has been generating in the USA for decades.  conspiracies, misinformation, authoritarian leaning speak, etc.  Alberta is and always was the Texas of Canada.  If you do not think that cannot happen there, well, 40 years ago, no one thought it could happen here, and yet it is happening as we speak.

Edited November 7, 2024 by tkhayes
added Cdn reference