The New War Against trump Fascism

[gowlerk 2,190]

5 minutes ago, tkhayes said:

Canada is bracing for the influx of immigrants leaving the USA before they get deported.  Good chance Canada will take many of them.  Good news is that construction labor and skilled labor costs will decrease.  bad news is Housing costs will probably increase.  rape and murder from criminal aliens will not actually happen.... because that is and always was a bullshit trope to get people to hate people they don't know nor have ever met.

Canada is already cutting back on immigration completely independently of US events. The government here has now basically admitted that it has been accepting more people than can be absorbed by the economy and services. Next year it is almost certain that the conservative party will win the election, possibly with a majority of seats and will cut further. 

[base698 14]

15 minutes ago, tkhayes said:

My niece in here 20's in Orlando, is pregnant with her first child, a daughter and is outside the 6 week ban.  That means if she has a serious issue late in her pregnancy, LAWYERS will decide whether or not she gets the care she needs, or if her life is in jeopardy.  This scenario has already played out in other states with women dying waiting for decisions, even with a court order allowing them to go ahead with what they need.

Yeah, that's not true in any state, even Alabama and Texas which are the most restrictive.  Florida has medical exceptions where the mother is in danger the whole term.

What is true is that if your niece gets a 20 week scan and the kid has downs then she can't do anything about it.  

[base698 14]

4 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

government here has now basically admitted that it has been accepting more people than can be absorbed by the economy and services

You guys should print $4T dollars and keep letting them in like we have.

[jakee 1,489]

28 minutes ago, base698 said:

Yeah I got that, which is why and people like Elon Musk switched to Red.  You'll be brought to heel soon enough.  Good luck with your seething though.

Elon Musk switched to Red because he hates trans people, couldn't deal with one of his kids being trans and disowning him, and blames the libs for that. Those are his words more or less exactly.

Now, how likely is it that it's the libs fault his kid hates him enough to break contact? Musk has what, a hundred kids by eighty different women? Whatever it is - by normal standards a fuckton more of both than most people. And he still brags about sleeping at the office rather than spending a normal amount of time at home with family. It's pretty likely then that Musk is the ultimate absentee father to most or all of his kids, so relations were probably strained before he told the kid he couldn't accept his/her chosen identity. But since he couldn't possibly take personal responsibility for any of hat, he found his new home on the new right, where everything is always someone else's fault.

[base698 14]

2 minutes ago, jakee said:

Elon Musk switched to Red because he hates trans people, couldn't deal with one of his kids being trans and disowning him, and blames the libs for that. Those are his words more or less exactly.

That makes a good story, and Elon is solid on narrative.  However, if you go back a few years to 2016 you'll see increasing antagonistic behavior towards Space X and Tesla.  Of the best examples are legal action for not hiring non-citizens when you legally can't hire them Space X because of export controls.  When he fought back the press further vilified him and the situation spiraled.  During Covid a California State Senator tweeted "Fuck Elon Musk".

In the best example of "don't bring knives to gun fights" of all time Musk is now the 3rd most powerful person in the world on top of being the richest.

[wmw999 2,442]

And should money actually be the sole determinant of power and value? Is that really a good thing?

Wendy P. 

[jakee 1,489]

26 minutes ago, base698 said:

Yeah, that's not true in any state, even Alabama and Texas which are the most restrictive.  Florida has medical exceptions where the mother is in danger the whole term.

What is true is that if your niece gets a 20 week scan and the kid has downs then she can't do anything about it.  

That's the lie that the Republican legal ploy is built on. The law is so deliberately vague, the legal apparatus of the State so publicly eager to prosecute, and the State Supreme Courts so unwilling to intervene that no-one really knows when they can intervene. If his niece has a scan that says the foetus has a condition that is absolutely guaranteed to cause its death along with significant danger to her if carried to term then she still can't do anything about it. This is a feature of the laws, not a bug.

It is also not hypothetical, women have already pointlessly died. Women who wanted kids but needed an abortion are dead, for no reason. While mendacious Republican lawmakers point the finger at doctors and say 'hey it was their call, we never specifically said they had to do that' - which is also a feature they deliberately built in, not a bug.

[base698 14]

4 minutes ago, jakee said:

It is also not hypothetical, women have already pointlessly died. Women who wanted kids but needed an abortion are dead, for no reason

Do you have any examples?  I'm aware of the one in Texas where the mother went to the ER 4 times over 24 hours and giving her antibiotics each time.  At the last moment they finally determined she needed an abortion and had to do the ultrasound and they portray it as the ultrasound requirement killing her, instead of the doctors making the wrong call 4 times in a row.

[base698 14]

9 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

And should money actually be the sole determinant of power and value? Is that really a good thing?

It is not the same thing.  Elon was rich but not powerful in 2021 when lawmakers thought they could belittle him and tweet "Fuck Elon".  Now he is both rich and powerful.

From Frank Underwood in House of Cards:

Quote

In this town, a mistake nearly everyone makes. Money is the McMansion in Sarasota that starts falling apart after 10 years. Power is the old stone building that stands for centuries. I cannot respect someone who doesn’t see the difference.

Thank god Mike Huckabee is rich and not powerful.

Edited November 10, 2024 by base698

[jakee 1,489]

21 minutes ago, base698 said:

That makes a good story, and Elon is solid on narrative.  However, if you go back a few years to 2016 you'll see increasing antagonistic behavior towards Space X and Tesla. 

I'm sorry, you think in 2016 the Dems were antagonistic towards Tesla? Who was fighting to take away their subsidies?

21 minutes ago, base698 said:

Of the best examples are legal action for not hiring non-citizens when you legally can't hire them Space X because of export controls.

Who says you can't? The Justice Department says they can, and that export control laws don;t say otherwise.

Now, what are you saying here? That it is right and proper that the ruling party of government should curry favour with oligarchs by allowing them to ignore whatever laws they feel like, in the interest having the continued support of those oligarchs?

Explain to me again how it is that you don't like the Dems because they are the party of the Elite?

Edited November 10, 2024 by jakee

[jakee 1,489]

10 minutes ago, base698 said:

Do you have any examples?  I'm aware of the one in Texas where the mother went to the ER 4 times over 24 hours and giving her antibiotics each time.  At the last moment they finally determined she needed an abortion and had to do the ultrasound and they portray it as the ultrasound requirement killing her, instead of the doctors making the wrong call 4 times in a row.

The existence of medical mistakes prior to the decision to delay treatment out of fear for the law doesn't change the fact that treatment was delayed out of fear for the law - which is exactly what the lawmakers wanted.

[base698 14]

5 minutes ago, jakee said:

I'm sorry, you think in 2016 the Dems were antagonistic towards Tesla? Who was fighting to take away their subsidies?

 

IIRC it was partly about unions and partly about investigations into autopilot.  This was partly just the press and when he started to fight back it spiraled.  It definitely started as a press problem and morphed into what it is today.  It wasn't just the trans issue was my point, and a lot of it stemmed from him fighting regulators, the press and the government for what he saw as the life of his companies.

Quote

Now, what are you saying here? That it is right and proper that the ruling party of government should curry favour with oligarchs by allowing them to ignore whatever laws they feel like, in the interest having the continued support of those oligarchs?

We live in an oligarchy.  I support Elon over Reid Hoffman and Marc Cuban. 

[jakee 1,489]

6 minutes ago, base698 said:

IIRC it was partly about unions and partly about investigations into autopilot.  This was partly just the press and when he started to fight back it spiraled.  It definitely started as a press problem and morphed into what it is today.

Yeah, Fox News reported loads of bad stuff about Tesla and the investigations into its conduct that were started under Trump. Go and investigate the posting history of our most prominent righty Brent if you want an overview of just how much the Republicans hated Tesla until about a year ago.

Or, let's just agree to face reality and that what Elon says is true, his man-baby inability to take any responsibility for his own personal failings is what lead him to join Maga and start scapegoating the libs for his car-crash personal life.

14 minutes ago, base698 said:

We live in an oligarchy.  I support Elon over Reid Hoffman and Marc Cuban. 

Good - so we are agreed that MAGA is the party controlled by and for the Elites.

[base698 14]

21 minutes ago, jakee said:

Good - so we are agreed that MAGA is the party controlled by and for the Elites

As are the Dems.  Just different ones. WE LIVE IN AN OLIGARCHY.

What you are witnessing is this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circulation_of_elites

Edited November 10, 2024 by base698

[base698 14]

18 minutes ago, jakee said:

Go and investigate the posting history of our most prominent righty Brent if you want an overview of just how much the Republicans hated Tesla until about a year ago.

Yep, "misery makes strange bedfellows".

If you think it's just the trans issue great, but there are plenty of other motivating factors. See liberal rag Vox in 2018: https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2018/5/30/17405922/elon-musk-twitter-meltdown-tesla-valuation-bubble-model-3-promises-reality

 

 

[jakee 1,489]

10 minutes ago, base698 said:

If you think it's just the trans issue great, but there are plenty of other motivating factors. See liberal rag Vox in 2018: https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2018/5/30/17405922/elon-musk-twitter-meltdown-tesla-valuation-bubble-model-3-promises-reality

Again, Tesla has been slated by Republicans and Republican media since forever, as Trump has slated EVs continually through this campaign.

[Phil1111 1,149]

"Becca Heller, founder of the International Refugee Assistance Project, which sued the government over the Muslim ban, said that winning the popular vote was not a license to ignore the law. “He can’t act outside the bounds of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights,” she said.

Having battled one Trump administration, she and her allies are ready for a second, Ms. Heller said. “We literally have a blueprint of what they are planning to do, and so we had months and months to figure out how to protect people,” she said.

“Trump has told us what to expect — hate and persecution and concentration camps,” she said, referring to his team’s plans to use military funds to build “vast holding facilities.” “None of us have any illusions about what we are up against this time.”

Defence against MAGA fascism is massing its troops for January 21.

[tkhayes 348]

1 hour ago, base698 said:

Do you have any examples?  I'm aware of the one in Texas where the mother went to the ER 4 times over 24 hours and giving her antibiotics each time.  At the last moment they finally determined she needed an abortion and had to do the ultrasound and they portray it as the ultrasound requirement killing her, instead of the doctors making the wrong call 4 times in a row.

that is the perfect example.  the doctors would not do the procedure under threat of prosecution, until they were certain that she was going to die, and guess what?  She dies.  Again, the law is DELIBERATELY vague so as to put fear into doctors, but the lawmakers can conveniently blame then for not making the decision when every single day, they are under threat of prosecution.

Texas AG threatens to prosecute doctors in emergency abortion | Reuters

Lady needs abortion... gets court order to get one, as required by law.... AG goes after the doctor anyway because the court order granting her an abortion did not specifically say they could not prosecute the doctor.  SHe leaves the state to get the procedure, only because she had the means to do so.  millions of other women do not nor ever will have that luxury.

Let's not pretend that this is ANYTHING other than exactly what it is.... a total ban on abortion via any means necessary, and women are dying.

Those people that voted for Trump and other GOP state legislatures have put my niece in danger.... but some of them still want to be my friend.....

[tkhayes 348]

1 hour ago, base698 said:

Yeah, that's not true in any state, even Alabama and Texas which are the most restrictive.  Florida has medical exceptions where the mother is in danger the whole term.

What is true is that if your niece gets a 20 week scan and the kid has downs then she can't do anything about it.  

it is ABSOLUTELY true in those states.  Florida's definition of 'life in danger' is just as vague as the Texas law.  deliberately so.  A doctor will not get to decide whether his decision is legal or not, as already demonstrated by dozens of examples in recent history.

Because of Florida abortion laws, she carried her baby to term knowing he would die | CNN

Florida’s abortion laws almost killed my wide. Let’s pass Amendment 4 | Miami Herald

DNC 2024: Anya Cook says Florida abortion law nearly killed her

They deliberately removed the idea that the doctor could make the life and death decision.

[base698 14]

16 minutes ago, jakee said:

Again, Tesla has been slated by Republicans and Republican media since forever, as Trump has slated EVs continually through this campaign

No kidding.  I've spent all morning arguing it's not only the trans issue and misery makes strange bedfellows.

Now that Elon is next to Trump you think that will continue?  

[billvon 2,990]

1 hour ago, base698 said:

Do you have any examples? 

You listed one of the two.  The two were Josseli Barnica, 28, and Nevaeh Crain, 18.

There have also been several deaths in Georgia due to women trying to do their own abortions at home - then not going to get medical care when there were complications, since they feared prosecution.

[jakee 1,489]

36 minutes ago, base698 said:

No kidding.  I've spent all morning arguing it's not only the trans issue and misery makes strange bedfellows.

Now that Elon is next to Trump you think that will continue? 

Ok, let me try and catch up: he's so thin skinned that a few articles by the liberal media have him throw all his toys out of the pram despite having profited massively from liberal green subsidies, but he is also so calculating and results focussed that he'll throw in with people who hate and constantly try and talk down his companies on the off chance that he could get a government position?

Or, it's the trans thing and the awful dad thing just like he said it was.

[gowlerk 2,190]

2 hours ago, base698 said:

You guys should print $4T dollars and keep letting them in like we have.

We don't print the world's reserve currency. We have to be a little more careful about that. Per capita legal immigration to Canada far outstrips that of the USA. But we have the obvious advantage of not having the third world at our doorstep and opening the door without knocking so we have a lot less unauthorized entries. 

Desperate people seeking entry is a problem in all the relatively wealthy western nations. It was the key reason for Brexit because being an island offers protection. It is a difficult moral dilemma.  

[base698 14]

32 minutes ago, jakee said:

constantly try and talk down his companies on the off chance that he could get a government position?

Off chance?  You think he just gave his support, bought twitter for 44 billion and millions of dollars direct to R causes for an off chance?

 

Yes, agree on the bad dad thing.

[jakee 1,489]

8 minutes ago, base698 said:

Off chance?  You think he just gave his support, bought twitter for 44 billion and millions of dollars direct to R causes for an off chance?

You think he had a blood pact with Trump to get into government before he bought Twitter?

Dude - he didn't want to buy fucking Twitter. You're here thinking he's playing 4D chess 20 moves ahead of everyone else when the reality is he made a crazy back of a cocktail napkin offer without doing his due diligence then tried everything he possibly could to back out of the deal until there were no more courts to lose in and he had no legal options left but to pay up.

You seem to be living in a fantasy world of bullshit revisionist history.