Attacks on women online soaring

[jakee 1,499]

40 minutes ago, base698 said:

"My mom died of an overdose, and JD Vance has direct experience with this issue".  YOU SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT OF IMMIGRANTS AND ABORTION is why you lose and will continue to lose.

That's great and all... but Trump is the most antagonistic candidate ever to run for the Presidency. Anyone who disagrees with him is a radical left lunatic actively trying to destroy the country. MAGA as a whole is so intolerant of other views they literally pretend that the people who hold them do not exist. Trump did not one single thing soften his approach after losing because he has never stopped pretending he didn't lose.

44 minutes ago, base698 said:

Like a true liberal you have no idea how reality works.

Sure. That's a great example of how to approach people with different viewpoints. I can see now why you say the right is different in that regard.

[jakee 1,499]

2 minutes ago, base698 said:

I don't know anyone personally who believes any of those.  

Right, you just voted for one. That's fine then.

[jakee 1,499]

4 hours ago, tkhayes said:

I work with these people, they exist in reality.  They hate women, they NEVER get laid, mostly because they are despicably misogynistic, race hating as well, and Joe Rogan is the source for their information

It's not as simple as that unfortunately. There are plenty of people who think like that who are out there enticing women into relationships before letting loose with their darker impulses. Malignant narcissists like Andrew Tate who project power and confidence have no trouble attracting women, (more's the pity) and they teach people, kids mostly, how to do the same thing.

[billvon 2,998]

15 minutes ago, base698 said:

You just named a bunch of liberal news media perceptions of boomer conservatives.

No, I listed actual comments from conservatives themselves.  Not "liberal news interpretations."  That's what conservatives believe, and state.

They admit this.  Kellyanne Conway explained that conservatives use "alternative facts" and a GWB staffer mocked journalist Ron Suskind for living in "the reality based community":

Journalists live "in what we call the reality-based community . . people who believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.  That's not the way the world really works anymore.  We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors...and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

23 minutes ago, base698 said:

You just named a bunch of liberal news media perceptions of boomer conservatives.  I don't know anyone personally who believes any of those.  

Seriously?

Try looking in a mirror. 

You recently posted that you think Covid was 'just the sniffles'.

And that MRNA vaccines are fake.

And that issues presented by homeless people are from illegal immigration.

[nigel99 484]

9 minutes ago, jakee said:

It's not as simple as that unfortunately. There are plenty of people who think like that who are out there enticing women into relationships before letting loose with their darker impulses. Malignant narcissists like Andrew Tate who project power and confidence have no trouble attracting women, (more's the pity) and they teach people, kids mostly, how to do the same thing.

Do the red pill crowd and Andrew Tate deny sexual assault happens? 

My impression was that they tend to encourage it as ‘women are asking for it’ and no means yes

As TK mentioned, I suspect the vast majority who regurgitate these views don’t get to interact with women. 

Although I do agree with you, there’s a really big problem within relationships as well. 

[base698 15]

8 minutes ago, billvon said:

Journalists live "in what we call the reality-based community . . people who believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality. 

That also has never been true, is not true and will never be true: 

> As Walter Lippmann wrote, the news constitutes a sort of pseudo-environment, but our responses to that environment are not pseudo but actual behavior. In 1922, Lippmann warned us “about the worldwide spectacle of men”—government officials, bankers, executives, artists, ordinary people, and even other reporters—“acting upon their environment moved by stimuli from their pseudo-environment.”

[base698 15]

5 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

And that issues presented by homeless people are from illegal immigration

99% sure I never said that.  If you find something that implies that I will state now I do not believe homeless problems are related to illegal immigrants.

 

6 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

And that MRNA vaccines are fake

They certainly aren't vaccines. I agree with this statement: 

> this medicine is more like a "therapeutic with a limited window of efficacy and terrible side effect profile that must be dosed in advance of illness." For people in a high-risk category, it can be useful, lifesaving. But it's a substance you stick in my arm that allows me to get the targeted disease almost immediately, and doesn't stop me getting it from or giving it to my kids. If that's a "vaccine," I'm a Chinese jet pilot.

In 2021 the dictionary definition changed to more broad.  I agree with the pre 2021 definition of what a vaccine is and think those work.

As for Covid being the sniffles, it was for me.  I've had it twice, as has my wife.  The second time she got it she had zero symptoms.  The other time it lasted 2 days.  Same for me, second time though I had symptoms for three days.  I acknowledge for the age group here that it was scary, not the sniffles, and worse than the flu.  That is not true across all ages. 

If you were advocating for school closures two years after it started because you are afraid, even though a weekend of skydiving had more risk, you are a monster who sacrificed the youth for your own fears.

[gowlerk 2,205]

41 minutes ago, base698 said:

You just named a bunch of liberal news media perceptions of boomer conservatives.  I don't know anyone personally who believes any of those.  

It's hard to know what anyone truly believes. But I know for sure that "leaders" of the "new right" have been known to promote belief in all of those "ideas" and several more "alternative truths". The news media reports these things because they are things that conservative politicians have said. They did not make it up no matter what you think people you know believe. You only know what YOU believe. This is the definition of reality.

Mama always said, "stupid is as stupid does".

Edited November 11, 2024 by gowlerk

[base698 15]

17 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

They did not make it up no matter what you think people you know believe. You only know what YOU believe. This is the definition of reality.

In case you missed the last 15 years of the Internet, the pipeline goes something like this: tweet/reddit post -> minor blog or podcast "some people are saying" -> blog with more reach reports on "blog x reported today that people are saying" -> legacy media outlet reports it as factual.  Before these things would be fact checked, today in the race to be relevant that's impossible.

At each stage a different group froths at the mouth.  "Conservatives are idiots, look at what they believe".  "Liberal snow flakes don't know George Washington was the first president"

Everyone Nom nom noms it up.  We've been increasingly living in the matrix.  Even worse the beginning of the pipeline can be and is frequently fraudulent.

This story from 15 years ago, and I bet of you go back you guys were frothing at the mouth about misogyny:

Quote

 

It's why I found myself at 2:00 A.M. one morning, at a deserted intersection in Los Angeles, dressed in all black. In my hand I had tape and some obscene stickers made at Kinko's earlier in the afternoon. What was I doing here? I was there to deface billboards, specifically billboards I had designed and paid for. Not that I'd expected to do anything like this, but there I was, doing it. My then-girlfriend and future wife, coaxed into being my accomplice, was behind the wheel of the getaway car.

After I finished, we circled the block and I took photos of my work from the passenger window as if I had spotted it from the road. Across the billboards was now a two-foot-long sticker that implied that the movie's creator-my client Tucker Max-deserved to have his dick caught in a trap with sharp metal hooks. Or something like that.

As soon as I got home I dashed off two e-mails to two major blogs. Under the fake name Evan Meyer I wrote,

"I saw these on my way home last night. It was on 3rd and Crescent Heights, I think. Good to know Los Angeles hates Tucker Max too," and attached the photos.

One blog wrote back: "You're not messing with me, are you?"

No, I said. Trust me, I'm not lying ...

The vandalized billboards and the coverage that my photos received were just a small part of the deliberately provocative campaign I did for the movie I Hope They Serve Beer in Hell. Tucker, the client, had asked me to create some controversy around the movie, which was based on his bestselling book, and I did-somewhat effortlessly, it turns out. It is one of many campaigns I have done in my career, and by no means an unusual one. But it illustrates a part of the media system that is hidden from your view: how the news is created and driven by marketers, and that no one does anything to stop it.

In under two weeks, and with no budget, thousands of college students protested the movie on their campuses nationwide, angry citizens vandalized our billboards in multiple neighborhoods, FoxNews.com ran a front-page story about the backlash, Page Six of the New York Post made their first of many mentions of Tucker, and the Chicago Transit Authority banned and stripped the movie's advertisements from their buses. To cap it all off, two different editorials railing against the film ran in the Washington Post and Chicago Tribune the week it was released. The outrage about Tucker was great enough that a few years later it was written into the television show Portlandia.

 

 

Edited November 11, 2024 by base698

[wmw999 2,452]

55 minutes ago, base698 said:

You just named a bunch of liberal news media perceptions of boomer conservatives.  I don't know anyone personally who believes any of those.  

I do. And many of the ones who don't believe it outright, say things like "we have questions about it."

Where do you get information? If it's all on X, not sure that's an improvement over OAN.

Wendy P.

[base698 15]

20 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

I do. And many of the ones who don't believe it outright, say things like "we have questions about it."

Where do you get information? If it's all on X, not sure that's an improvement over OAN.

Wendy P.

See above, there are no Safe Spaces anymore.  I would say books are where I get my information.  Currently I'm reading, "The Theory that Would Not Die" about Bayes' Theorem.  I have read 12 books on Media, Persuasion and Propaganda since 2019 including:
- Propaganda
- Alchemy
- Trust Me I'm Lying (Quote from above)
- Win Your Case
- True Believer
- The Captive Mind
- Amusing Ourselves to Death
- Beyond Belief (WW2 book about reporting of NYT on the Holocaust)
- The Righteous Mind
- Influence
- Pre-Suasion

And I'm still terrible at it myself :)

Edited November 11, 2024 by base698

[JoeWeber 2,724]

1 hour ago, base698 said:

I was curious how boomer libs (older Gen X and boomer) took the loss.  I'm a Xennial and most of my discussions are with people in the age range of 35-50.  I've found the discussion here enlightening and very different than with younger Never Trumpers.

Broadly younger people seem to understand in a democracy people have different view points. You can campaign and hope your pet issue takes the forefront but that won't always be the case. 

"My mom died of an overdose, and JD Vance has direct experience with this issue".  YOU SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT OF IMMIGRANTS AND ABORTION is why you lose and will continue to lose.

The blanks spaces are part of the encoding in a bar code, without them the bar code is meaningless.  Like a true liberal you have no idea how reality works.

I understand how barcodes work, it was a metaphor. You continue to miss the point. I've said it repeatedly: it's not the issues so much as it's that Trump is an odious scumbag willing to harm anyone for an iota of personal gain. I will make money from his policies but I was happy to leave it on the table in exchange for being represented by an adult not a name calling bully who is both stupid and wide open to manipulation. It is there that we are different.

[nigel99 484]

23 minutes ago, base698 said:

See above, there are no Safe Spaces anymore.  I would say books are where I get my information.  Currently I'm reading, "The Theory that Would Not Die" about Bayes' Theorem.  I have read 12 books on Media, Persuasion and Propaganda since 2019 including:
- Propaganda
- Alchemy
- Trust Me I'm Lying (Quote from above)
- Win Your Case
- True Believer
- The Captive Mind
- Amusing Ourselves to Death
- Beyond Belief (WW2 book about reporting of NYT on the Holocaust)
- The Righteous Mind
- Influence
- Pre-Suasion

And I'm still terrible at it myself :)

I’m curious how you rationalise Trump and Vance “Their eating the dogs” line that they pushed hard and for a long time? 

It seems to contradict your very rational explanation of the internet rumour mill

[base698 15]

6 minutes ago, nigel99 said:

I’m curious how you rationalise Trump and Vance “Their eating the dogs” line that they pushed hard and for a long time? 

It seems to contradict your very rational explanation of the internet rumour mill

What I said above:

the pipeline goes something like this: tweet/reddit post -> minor blog or podcast "some people are saying" -> blog with more reach reports on "blog x reported today that people are saying" -> legacy media outlet reports it as factual. Before these things would be fact checked, today in the race to be relevant that's impossible.

 

Paraphrased: the only thing stopping a bad guy with a propaganda is a good guy with a propaganda.

I haven't followed her lately but AOC used to be exceptional at it.

Edited November 11, 2024 by base698

[gowlerk 2,205]

1 hour ago, base698 said:

As for Covid being the sniffles, it was for me.  I've had it twice, as has my wife. 

Lucky you. My mother died from it. My wife and I only had moderate cases, more than sniffles but less than the worst flu I've ever had. My wife was reassigned from her regular job to help in an overflowing ICU unit where she nursed more than a few anti-vaxxers more than one of whom changed their minds about the vaccine too late. Most but not all of them survived but some lost spouses or other family members. They were largely from the southern Manitoba bible belt and had leaders who told them not to get vaccinated and that ivermectin would save them if needed. Covid has killed far more people than the opiate epidemic did in the last few years. It currently is responsible for 1.2% of deaths last week in the USA up from 1.1% the week before. That is with high levels of vaccination keeping the rate down. The money spent on healthcare for covid victims could probably buy a few tent city concentration camps for the homeless opiate addicts who are one of the few groups you seem to empathize with. 

Edited November 11, 2024 by gowlerk

[base698 15]

5 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

My wife was reassigned from her regular job to help in an overflowing ICU unit where she nursed more than a few anti-vaxxers m

When someone tells you they don't eat goat, but consume other types of meat do you call them anti-meat?

[gowlerk 2,205]

Just now, base698 said:

When someone tells you they don't eat goat, but consume other types of meat do you call them anti-meat?

Have you seen what is happening with the rates of measles in children of the anti-vaxx community since 2020?

[base698 15]

6 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Covid has killed far more people that the opiate epidemic did in the last few years. It currently is responsible for 1.2% of deaths last week in the USA up from 1.1% the week before.

Assuming you take the with/of distinction off the table and I'll call it a cool million covid deaths, of which 90% are above 65 years old.

100,000 opioid * 4 years = 400,000 deaths.

Let's say the median age of  death is 77 (to make it easy) and say above 77 the person had 5 years to live and under 77 15.  

500k * 5 years = 2500k death years + 500k * 15 = 10000k death years for COVID

For overdoses:

35ish is median age of overdose death.  Keep it simple we have 200k with 42 years to live and 200k with 20 years to live

200k * 42 + 200k * 20 = 12400k death years.  Not counting that group is more likely to have young children.

Another Fermi example, done on the back of a phone, or screen of a phone.  

[base698 15]

13 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Have you seen what is happening with the rates of measles in children of the anti-vaxx community since 2020?

Have you seen what calling a treatment that isn't a vaccine does to general trust in vaccines?

If they called it lifesaver, fuck yeah 5000 we would not have had this problem. 

Edited November 11, 2024 by base698

[gowlerk 2,205]

2 minutes ago, base698 said:

Assuming you take the with/of distinction off the table and I'll call it a cool million covid deaths, of which 90% are above 65 years old.

Yeah, old people don't count. I know.

[base698 15]

4 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Yeah, old people don't count. I know.

That's not fair.  I created, copied, a new model, death years (which is actually how mortality is modeled in #thescience). They count, just less proportionally.  Think of it as the 3/5ths rule for mortality.

[gowlerk 2,205]

2 minutes ago, base698 said:

Have you seen what calling a treatment that isn't a vaccine does to general trust in vaccines?

 

I'm not sure why you think an mRNA vaccine is not a vaccine but there is a lot of evidence that it functions as one. I know you will carry your personal anger and resentment over the extreme pressure put on you and others to make the sacrifice of taking it for the common good despite your beliefs to the grave with you. I'm not even going to try to have that argument again. But the fact is that it is an effective measure that attenuated the epidemic and allowed society to get close to normalcy far faster and with far less death than otherwise. Without it we would be in a far worse place right now. 

[gowlerk 2,205]

2 minutes ago, base698 said:

Think of it as the 3/5ths rule for mortality.

How charming.

[base698 15]

14 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

I'm not sure why you think an mRNA vaccine is not a vaccine but there is a lot of evidence that it functions as one.

Screenshot of dictionary.com from 2019.  Note the any preparation used as a preventive inoculation to confer immunity against a specific disease. 

It did not confer immunity and when it became obvious it didn't they doubled down and added the pressure to take it despite cases (and even deaths) skyrocketing through the roll out and the pulling of the non mRNA j&j vaccine.  People's experience and idea of what a vaccine was not that, hence the doubling down causes massive distrust in anything with the same name.

It was great being gaslit, I think even here, that they never said it was supposed to stop you from getting it.  Despite everyone in the media, Joe Biden, and the CEO of moderna claiming "you wouldn't get it".

Thanks for polio.

Edited November 11, 2024 by base698