Attacks on women online soaring

[nigel99 482]

10 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Nigel,

You mean Christians?

Jerry Baumchen

My experience of Christian’s has been that in general the evangelicals take no responsibility for their actions, don’t typically have strong convictions that don’t blow in the wind.

Conversely traditional Christian’s (Roman catholic or Anglican etc), tend to have high ethics and standards of morality- albeit quite dated. They also don’t tend to try and force it down your throat.

[billvon 2,998]

4 hours ago, base698 said:

So this is fake: https://time.com/6276552/covid-19-vaccine-immunity-wanes

No.  Old vaccines are less effective against new variants.  Just like the flu.  Which, if you will note, is very similar to COVID.

Also keep in mind you claimed that they only protected you "for about 2 months after you get the second shot."  That study shows a year until the vaccine that matches the variant decays to 50% of its original protection level, and three months until the wrong vaccine decays to 50%.  After that, of course, they still protect you - you are less likely to become infected, and even if you do, the infection will be far less severe.

[JoeWeber 2,723]

7 hours ago, base698 said:

I'll tell you if you tell me at least one lie Kamala told that you regret and wish she hadn't.

Man you are the gift that keeps on giving. Nothing she has said falsely can come close to any of the outright and provable lies Trump has told and you damn well know it. Further, if you are wrong about the damage Trump can cause please do not refer back to any of your bolt hole posts here and attempt to point out that you had your doubts. Yes you are smart, but you are also transparent.

[base698 15]

6 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Man you are the gift that keeps on giving. Nothing she has said falsely can come close to any of the outright and provable

Refusing to be a partisan hack is more fun and intellectually honest. 

[base698 15]

9 hours ago, billvon said:

No.  Old vaccines are less effective against new variants.  Just like the flu.  Which, if you will note, is very similar to COVID.

Also keep in mind you claimed that they only protected you "for about 2 months after you get the second shot."  That study shows a year until the vaccine that matches the variant decays to 50% of its original protection level, and three months until the wrong vaccine decays to 50%.  After that, of course, they still protect you - you are less likely to become infected, and even if you do, the infection will be far less severe.

Naming it a vaccine was a mistake.  The formulation is totally different than viral vector techniques.  While newer those are still an actual pathogen being put in the vaccine.  In addition, you run up against the public's colloquial understanding of vaccine meaning you are protected and don't transmit the disease. TB Vax isn't a very common vaccine.  The ones the public knows are MMR, Smallpox and Polio, and the constant message those vaccines saved the world and antivaxxers cause measles outbreaks.  Vaccine == no outbreaks in most people's understanding.

The public trust collapsing in real vaccines from something 95% or above to 90% or less proves that calling a mRNA shot a mistake.

[jakee 1,498]

1 hour ago, base698 said:

Refusing to be a partisan hack is more fun and intellectually honest. 

Whenever you want to justify your own position you say this what the dems do, this is what the Reps do, And that matches what you want. Whenever someone makes a counterpoint you say information isn’t real, news doesn’t exist and no one knows anything about anyone. 
 

It doesn’t strike me as being very honest.

Edited November 12, 2024 by jakee

[Phil1111 1,149]

21 minutes ago, jakee said:

Whenever you want to justify your own position you say this what the dems do, this is what the Reps do, And that matches what you want. Whenever someone makes a counterpoint you say information isn’t real, news doesn’t exist and no one knows anything about anyone. 
 

It doesn’t strike me as being very honest.

Seems as if the same attitudes are displayed by rushmc and Brent.

[base698 15]

45 minutes ago, jakee said:

It doesn’t strike me as being very honest.

I've acknowledged Trump sucks, is pathologically narcissistic, etc.  Despite that there are still numerous instances where he has been unfairly attacked starting from the launch of his 2016 campaign. 

Kamala had plenty of instances where she was asked directly, from media that are sympathetic to her campaign, about policy positions which are third rails in 2024, and she bumbled them or said nothing to clarify how her view point had changed.  Talking to disappointed Dem voters that seems to be a consistent failure on her part.

[gowlerk 2,204]

2 hours ago, base698 said:

Naming it a vaccine was a mistake.  The formulation is totally different than viral vector techniques.

Sigh....it's function is what makes it a vaccine. You have called it a "treatment" which it clearly is not. If it is not a vaccine in your mind and it is not a treatment in anyone's mind , what pray tell should it be called? 

[billvon 2,998]

3 hours ago, base698 said:

Naming it a vaccine was a mistake. 

"Conservatives don't understand what a vaccine is" is not a good reason to not call it what it is.  It meets both the "old" and "new" definition of vaccine.

Shall we call the seasons something different now, because most Americans think that during the summer we are closer to the Sun?  And since they are wrong, we have to change the definition of the word?

Quote

While newer those are still an actual pathogen being put in the vaccine. 

No.  Again, you are wrong.  Modern vaccines are of many types.  The antigen-only vaccines I listed in a previous post do NOT contain an actual pathogen.  Let's list a few:

Hepatitis B vaccine.  This is not a weakened or killed pathogen.  Instead, scientists created a surface antigen of the Hepatitis B virus, inserted it into the DNA of a carrier organism (yeast) and then had the yeast multiply.  This method is called a recombinant subunit vaccine.  Then they killed the yeast, filtered out the surface antigen (HBsAg) and used that to create a vaccine.   The vaccine gives you about 30 years of protection from Hep B.

Is that therefore "not a vaccine?"

HPV vaccine.  HPV causes a mild viral infection; it usually only causes genital warts.  But women who get it are more likely to get cervical cancer - so it's effectively a vaccine against that form of cancer.  The most common vaccine, Gardasil, is created by taking the major capsid protein (L1) from the virus 'capsule', amplifying it via PCR, then allowing the proteins to self-assemble into a VLP (virus-like particle.)  These are then injected.  Your immune system recognizes this and attacks it, and then will attack any virus whose encapsulation contains that protein.  It gives you protection for ~10 years

Is that therefore "not a vaccine?"

Shingrix is a vaccine against shingles, a painful disease mainly affecting older people.  It is also a recombinant subunit vaccine, which means that a genetically engineered organism (yeast with "fake" DNA) is used to produce the surface antigens, which are then injected.  It works for about 7 years.

Is that therefore "not a vaccine?"

 

[billvon 2,998]

2 hours ago, base698 said:

Kamala had plenty of instances where she was asked directly, from media that are sympathetic to her campaign, about policy positions which are third rails in 2024, and she bumbled them or said nothing to clarify how her view point had changed.  Talking to disappointed Dem voters that seems to be a consistent failure on her part.

And Trump replied with word salad.  My favorite - "I have a concept of a policy."

[JoeWeber 2,723]

5 hours ago, base698 said:

Refusing to be a partisan hack is more fun and intellectually honest. 

Before you ran that through the right wing blender did it read: refusing to be intellectually honest is to be a partisan hack?

[base698 15]

47 minutes ago, billvon said:

Hepatitis B vaccine.  This is not a weakened or killed pathogen.  Instead, scientists created a surface antigen of the Hepatitis B virus, inserted it into the DNA of a carrier organism (yeast) and then had the yeast multiply.  This method is called a recombinant subunit vaccine.  Then they killed the yeast, filtered out the surface antigen (HBsAg) and used that to create a vaccine.   The vaccine gives you about 30 years of protection from Hep B.

We should force everyone to get it, even the low risk groups who aren't IV drug users and prostitutes.
 

 

47 minutes ago, billvon said:

No.  Again, you are wrong.  Modern vaccines are of many types. 

I actually didn't know Hep B was an antigen only vaccine, but yes I am aware they exist.

47 minutes ago, billvon said:

"Conservatives don't understand what a vaccine is" is not a good reason to not call it what it is.  It meets both the "old" and "new" definition of vaccine.

As stated it does not meet the old definition that specifically included a pathogen and not parts of one.  I guess the newer subunit types would not quality under that definition either.  Marin County used to be antivax central and it was a hippy thing.  

Yes sometimes things need to be branded a certain way.  "Trump vaccine" for example was effective in getting everyone to shun it.  

Edited November 12, 2024 by base698

[base698 15]

The vax was not a political issue for me when I originally posted about it.  Any new product has unknown risk (737 MAX), a quick Google shows 1/3 of medical products have a major unknown side effect AFTER launch.  You can't look at the risk profile of covid for younger populations and say that was worth the risk of forcing everyone to get it, especially if they had other mitigations (remote work) or prior infection.  
 

[billvon 2,998]

Just now, base698 said:

We should force everyone to get it, even the low risk groups who aren't IV drug users and prostitutes.

No, we shouldn't.

Quote

As stated it does not meet the old definition that specifically included a pathogen and not parts of one. 

The ORIGINAL definition of vaccine was "cowpox."  In fact, the viral strain variolae vaccinae (which is where the term "vaccine" came from) is cowpox.  Which, if you took literally, would mean that no modern vaccines are vaccines.

But that would be pretty silly, too.

[wmw999 2,452]

4 minutes ago, base698 said:

As stated it does not meet the old definition that specifically included a pathogen and not parts of one.  I guess the newer subunit types would not quality under that definition either.  Marin County used to be antivax central and it was a hippy thing. 

Yes, anti-vax did used to be a hippie thing, until Trump told everyone that Covid was no big deal and would be gone by Easter, and Rush told everyone it was just the common cold. Then the health authorities told people that their freedom was impacting others' freedom (i.e. older people, people with immune deficiencies, people with respiratory issues -- you know, insignificant minorities), and strongly recommended measures to stop the spread while the disease was being studied. As they gained information, the recommendations changed; that's kind of reality, that things change.

By the way, I'd really like to thank you for sticking around; I might disagree with some of your viewpoints (particularly the rather nihilistic-seeming "well, we're heading toward oligarchy so I might as well align with the oligarch I prefer" attitude), but I really appreciate the viewpoints. They make me think.

Wendy P.

[billvon 2,998]

Just now, base698 said:

The vax was not a political issue for me when I originally posted about it.  Any new product has unknown risk (737 MAX), a quick Google shows 1/3 of medical products have a major unknown side effect AFTER launch. 

Of course.  And the Cutter incident killed a dozen kids and paralyzed hundreds -  but no one says "therefore the polio vaccine is not a vaccine."

Quote

You can't look at the risk profile of covid for younger populations and say that was worth the risk of forcing everyone to get it, especially if they had other mitigations (remote work) or prior infection.

Public vaccination programs (and simpler measures like social distancing/masing, and more draconian measures like quarantines) do not protect individuals - they protect populations.

Almost no one got polio after the first wave of vaccinations were complete.  And, as noted, there were deaths.  But it was worth it to wipe out polio.  That's not an individual good - that's a public good.  Thus, they continued vaccination even after the disease was mostly gone, and the risk profile for EVERYONE was low.

Today, polio has been completely eliminated from the US.  Do you see that as a good thing?

[base698 15]

27 minutes ago, billvon said:

Public vaccination programs (and simpler measures like social distancing/masing, and more draconian measures like quarantines) do not protect individuals - they protect populations.

This does not at all address what I said. I was concerned of when it was introduced and forced.  If you want to make an argument for it being forced across the population today I would still fight you on it, but it's much better than 2021 when the risk profile was completely unknown and some populations, like remote workers, had near zero risk of transmitting it.

Authoritarians sacrificed the youth for your fear.  

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moloch

Edited November 12, 2024 by base698

[SkyDekker 1,465]

On 11/10/2024 at 6:54 PM, base698 said:

It's click bait.  This time MAGA is the villain, previously online trolls, mens rights activists, gamers.  Real world harassment is barely prosecuted or taken seriously.  And when it is it's in select cases (rich victim, famous victim). Online harassment is taken less seriously.  It has the advantage it is rampant, crosses demographics and existed prior to MAGA or Trump so any narrative can be written to write a story about.

You ever been in an environment where you know violence could be imminent at any point and that said violence will 99% work out badly for you?

Maybe walked into a Vagos bar wearing red? something along those lines?

Cause, I would prefer that the women in my life, and really all women, don't have to feel that way. Many do, and these antics make it significantly worse.

[base698 15]

40 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Trump told everyone that Covid was no big deal and would be gone by Easter, and Rush told everyone it was just the common cold

What's funny is it was propagating right wing Twitter before all that.  When Pelosi said it was racist to be concerned about it and photographed herself at a Chinese New Year festival. Right wing people were wearing masks in February 2020 and saying it was going to end civilization. In addition the Trump vaccine association at first to posting vaccine emojis to your profile.

Covid did more political flip flopping than John Kerry!

Edited November 12, 2024 by base698

[billvon 2,998]

7 minutes ago, base698 said:

This does not at all address what I said. I was concerned of when it was introduced and forced. 

Talking about why widespread vaccination is important isn't germane to the question of why vaccinations are required?  OK then.

But to your point on "forced" - 

No one was forced to get vaccinated.  No one.

Many were given a choice - for example, keep your job as a nurse or refuse the vaccination.  This was out of necessity, because we were having a hard enough time dealing with public COVID infections without adding lots of nosocomial infections to the mix.

And again this is nothing new.  Soldiers have to get vaccinated if they want to be soldiers.  If not, they are free to not enlist.  Schoolkids have to get vaccinated if they want to go to schools.  If not, they are free to either find a private school or homeschool.  Drivers have to submit to BAC testing on demand.  If not, they are free to not get a license.

All of it is a choice.  Sure, there are consequences for your choices.  That's always true.

[billvon 2,998]

6 minutes ago, base698 said:

What's funny is it was propagating right wing Twitter before all that.  When Pelosi said it was racist to be concerned about it and photographed herself at a Chinese New Year festival. Right wing people were wearing masks in February 2020 and saying it was going to end civilization. 

Covid did more political flip flopping than John Kerry!

1) Trump was right about COVID
2) OK he wasn't right but that's OK because reasons
3) Pelosi did it first.

[base698 15]

1 minute ago, billvon said:

No one was forced to get vaccinated.  No one.

Spoken like a true authoritarian. "Your kids won't have food, so you don't have to get it."

[billvon 2,998]

1 minute ago, base698 said:

Spoken like a true authoritarian. "Your kids won't have food, so you don't have to get it."

Given that you just elected one - I am just going to laugh here.

[base698 15]

3 minutes ago, billvon said:

1) Trump was right about COVID
2) OK he wasn't right but that's OK because reasons
3) Pelosi did it first.

So you don't find it funny that the politics around it switched 180, often in the same people as many as 3 separate times?