Attacks on women online soaring

[jakee 1,489]

40 minutes ago, base698 said:

Read this: https://www.amazon.com/Dreamland-True-Americas-Opiate-Epidemic/dp/1620402521/ref=asc_df_1620402521?mcid=a7773f791d803163b45b4b743704a54e&tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693584938053&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17850441615144603555&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9011659&hvtargid=pla-432547231653&psc=1

Why should I believe anything it says? It's just an amplified Reddit meme, isn't it?

[jakee 1,489]

40 minutes ago, base698 said:

He was buried by the press.  

Right. As anyone else would have been because it was disgraceful.

[nigel99 471]

4 hours ago, base698 said:

The vax was not a political issue for me when I originally posted about it.  Any new product has unknown risk (737 MAX), a quick Google shows 1/3 of medical products have a major unknown side effect AFTER launch.  You can't look at the risk profile of covid for younger populations and say that was worth the risk of forcing everyone to get it, especially if they had other mitigations (remote work) or prior infection.  
 

Other than you stating it isn’t a vaccine, I’m pretty much in agreement with you.

i don’t think people should have been forced, I would have lost my job if I didn’t have it and yet our state was in total lockdown and we had not a single case at the time. 

I wanted to take a risk based approach and when the risk of a vaccine injury is 1 in a million, but there is NO COVID, then the risk is higher. 

The dishonesty of our government was exposed when there was still quite significant resistance and so they banned going through a drive through bottle shop to purchase alcohol without the vax. Aussies are committed enough to drinking that this got another 8% vaccinated.

My housemate at the time was very anti vax (and has since got worse and is in with a crowd who give their toddlers THC to prevent 5G damage). Because of her strong views I did a bit of digging into the Canadian who they hailed as the truth teller and read the actual paper he wrote. Unsurprisingly, there was a lot of misunderstanding and what he said had been twisted. But one of the reasons I like being around alternative views is that I did learn something. 

He lays out in the paper that in lab experiments they found that under certain circumstances vaccinating against a specific strain of virus (using traditional vaccines) could increase the severity of a different but closely related strain. From memory I think it was called antibody dependent enhancement. He stressed in the paper that this had not been seen outside of lab conditions. But the concern he raised with mRNA vaccines, is that by being so highly targeted that specific risk might be greater. 

He made it clear it was a risk, not a fact. He simply highlighted an area requiring more research. The risk and science of his argument seems reasonable to me. Consequently when forced I got the non mRNA (Astra Zenica). 

[tkhayes 348]

9 hours ago, base698 said:

Naming it a vaccine was a mistake. 

Vaccine == no outbreaks in most people's understanding.

 

no it wasn't actually, given that the ENTIRETY of the medical community refers to it as a type of vaccine.  Why are you splitting hairs so much about what is and is not called vaccine and whether or not it should be?  The medical community disagrees with you

Feel free to get your doctorate in medicine and publish your dissertations to support your claims.  sheesh, people cannot even agree on the definitions of words when they are already defined and published as such.

'Most people' do not matter when it comes to medical decisions, and their understanding is limited at best.  That is why people with decades of medical experience get a say in things, just like people who design jet turbines do not poll 'most people' to see what they think.

this is not a popularity contest.  But Trump successfully made it one.  Next time you are in the ER, call Trump and JFK Jr and ask then what they think instead of listening to the doctor.

[gowlerk 2,190]

10 hours ago, base698 said:

Vaccine == no outbreaks in most people's understanding.

I don't know where you live, but where I live most people made appointments and lined up en masse to get mNRA vaccines as soon as they could and were very glad of it. You probably look down your nose at most people and call them sheep. Most people are actually a lot smarter than you give them credit for.

[wmw999 2,444]

43 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Most people are actually a lot smarter than you give them credit for

Probably Trump voters, too.

Wendy P. 

[billvon 2,990]

2 hours ago, tkhayes said:

no it wasn't actually, given that the ENTIRETY of the medical community refers to it as a type of vaccine.  Why are you splitting hairs so much about what is and is not called vaccine and whether or not it should be?

Yeah, I've often wondered what agenda this supports.

"It's not a vaccine so there's no reason I should get it?"
"Government conspiracy to make us take something that's not a vaccine?"
"Vaccines are good, and republican pundits were against vaccination, so it can't be something good?"
"Biden pushed this so it can't be a vaccine?"

It's a bit of a bizarre take for just shits and grins.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

5 minutes ago, billvon said:

Yeah, I've often wondered what agenda this supports.

"It's not a vaccine so there's no reason I should get it?"
"Government conspiracy to make us take something that's not a vaccine?"
"Vaccines are good, and republican pundits were against vaccination, so it can't be something good?"
"Biden pushed this so it can't be a vaccine?"

It's a bit of a bizarre take for just shits and grins.

Don't forget to include that Bill Gates put microchips into the vaccines to control people.

So to counter that we are strong Musk supporters, who puts microchips in people......

[JoeWeber 2,720]

5 hours ago, billvon said:

No.  I don't think that people who took the approach that they thought was best AT THE TIME, then later changed that approach when they learned more, is "funny."

At the beginning all we had was distancing, cleaning and handwashing, because we thought that it was transmissible primarily by contact, like most other coronaviruses.  When airborne transmission was discovered to be the primary vector we switched to masking, kept distancing, and reduced our emphasis on handwashing.  If we had learned it was almost all contact based we would have reduced distancing guidelines and increase cleaning and handwashing guidelines.  That would not mean the original people were "wrong" - it means that we learned more,

BTW again I STRONGLY advise you not to get your medical advice from politicians or political podcasters, and indeed it is best to ignore what they say.  Go with what the doctors say.

My decision to go along came from my faith in modern medicine and the efficacy of vaccines, number 1. Number 2 was the information that ventilators etc. etc. were in short supply for those in high risk categories and hospital beds were forecast to be in short supply for everyone. Number 3 was just a desire to not be an asshole and get others upset because I was too good to wear a free, thin piece of paper over my mouth when in public. Seemed to work, best I can tell.

[JoeWeber 2,720]

6 hours ago, billvon said:

No.  I don't think that people who took the approach that they thought was best AT THE TIME, then later changed that approach when they learned more, is "funny."

At the beginning all we had was distancing, cleaning and handwashing, because we thought that it was transmissible primarily by contact, like most other coronaviruses.  When airborne transmission was discovered to be the primary vector we switched to masking, kept distancing, and reduced our emphasis on handwashing.  If we had learned it was almost all contact based we would have reduced distancing guidelines and increase cleaning and handwashing guidelines.  That would not mean the original people were "wrong" - it means that we learned more,

BTW again I STRONGLY advise you not to get your medical advice from politicians or political podcasters, and indeed it is best to ignore what they say.  Go with what the doctors say.

 

Edited November 13, 2024 by JoeWeber
Duplicate post

[kallend 2,026]

8 hours ago, base698 said:

What's funny is it was propagating right wing Twitter before all that.  When Pelosi said it was racist to be concerned about it and photographed herself at a Chinese New Year festival. Right wing people were wearing masks in February 2020 and saying it was going to end civilization. In addition the Trump vaccine association at first to posting vaccine emojis to your profile.

Covid did more political flip flopping than John Kerry!

Trump on COVID.  More flip flopping than anyone:

Jan. 22, 2020	“We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.”
Jan. 24, 2020	“China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!”
Feb. 2, 2020	“We pretty much shut it down coming in from China.”
Feb. 7, 2020	“It’s also more deadly than even your strenuous flu... This is deadly stuff.” [Trump in a private interview with Bob Woodward from The Washington Post made public on Sept. 9, 2020]
Feb. 10, 2020	“I think the virus is going to be—it’s going to be fine.”
Feb. 10, 2020	“Looks like by April, you know in theory when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away.”
Feb. 24, 2020	“The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA… the Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”
Feb. 25, 2020	“CDC and my Administration are doing a GREAT job of handling Coronavirus.”
Feb. 25, 2020	“I think that's a problem that’s going to go away… They have studied it. They know very much. In fact, we’re very close to a vaccine.”
Feb. 26, 2020	“The 15 (cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.”
Feb. 26, 2020	“We're going very substantially down, not up.”
Feb. 26, 2020	“Well, we're testing everybody that we need to test. And we're finding very little problem. Very little problem.”
Feb. 26, 2020	"This is a flu. This is like a flu."
Feb. 27, 2020	“It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”
Feb. 28, 2020	“We're ordering a lot of supplies. We're ordering a lot of, uh, elements that frankly we wouldn't be ordering unless it was something like this. But we're ordering a lot of different elements of medical.”
March 2, 2020	“You take a solid flu vaccine, you don't think that could have an impact, or much of an impact, on corona?” [Trump to health officials who answered "No."]
March 2, 2020	“A lot of things are happening, a lot of very exciting things are happening and they’re happening very rapidly.”
March 4, 2020	“Now, and this is just my hunch, and — but based on a lot of conversations with a lot of people that do this. Because a lot people will have this and it's very mild.”
March 4, 2020	“If we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work — some of them go to work, but they get better.”
March 5, 2020	“I NEVER said people that are feeling sick should go to work.”
March 5, 2020	“The United States… has, as of now, only 129 cases… and 11 deaths. We are working very hard to keep these numbers as low as possible!”
March 6, 2020	“I think we’re doing a really good job in this country at keeping it down… a tremendous job at keeping it down.”
March 6, 2020	“You have to be calm. It’ll go away.”
March 6, 2020	“Anybody right now, and yesterday, anybody that needs a test gets a test. They’re there. And the tests are beautiful…. the tests are all perfect like the letter was perfect. The transcription was perfect. Right? This was not as perfect as that but pretty good.”
March 6, 2020	“I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it… Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.”
March 6, 2020	“I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault.”
March 7, 2020	“No, I’m not concerned at all.
March 8, 2020	“We have a perfectly coordinated and fine-tuned plan at the White House for our attack on CoronaVirus.”
March 10, 2020	“Just stay calm. It will go away.”
March 11, 2020	“It goes away….It’s going away. We want it to go away with very, very few deaths.”
March 11, 2020	"The vast majority of Americans, the risk is very, very low"
March 12, 2020	“The system is not really geared to what we need right now...That is a failing. Let’s admit it.” [Dr. Anthony Fauci, Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases to Congress]
March 12, 2020	"You know, you see what's going on. And so I just wanted that to stop as it pertains to the United States. And that's what we've done. We've stopped it."
March 13, 2020	“I don’t take responsibility at all.”
March 13, 2020	The Atlantic reports that less than 14,000 tests have been done in the ten weeks since the Administration had first been notified of the virus, though Mike Pence had promised the week prior that 1.5 million tests would be available by this time.
March 14, 2020	“I’d rate it a ten,” [Trump’s rating of his coronavirus response]
March 15, 2020	“Relax.”
March 15, 2020	“This is a very contagious virus. It’s incredible. But it’s something that we have tremendous control over.”
March 16, 2020	“Respirators, ventilators, all of the equipment-try getting it yourselves,”
March 17, 2020	“The only thing we haven’t done well is get good press.”
March 17, 2020	“I felt like it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic.”
March 19, 2020	I intended "to always play it down.”  [Trump in a private taped interview with Bob Woodward, made public on September 9]
March 20, 2020	“I say that you're a terrible reporter, that's what I say. I think it's a very nasty question, and I think it's a very bad signal that you're putting out to the American people." [Response to reporter’s question: "What do you say to Americans who are watching you right now who are scared?"]
March 22, 2020	“WE CANNOT LET THE CURE BE WORSE THAN THE PROBLEM ITSELF.”
March 24, 2020	“I'm also hopeful to have Americans working again by that Easter - that beautiful Easter day.”
March 24, 2020	“We’ve never closed down the country for the flu,” Trump said. “So you say to yourself, what is this all about?”
March 24, 2020	“They have to treat us well, also. They can’t say, ‘Oh, gee, we should get this, we should get that.’”
March 25, 2020	“The faster we go back, the better it’s going to be.”
March 26, 2020	The United States becomes the country with the most confirmed coronavirus cases. A title it keeps for the remainder of Trump's time in office.
March 26, 2020	“Congratulations AMERICA!” [On Senate passage of third relief bill]
March 26, 2020	“I don't believe you need 40,000 or 30,000 ventilators. You go into major hospitals sometimes, and they’ll have two ventilators. And now all of a sudden they’re saying, ‘Can we order 30,000 ventilators?’”
March 26, 2020	“We’ve had a big problem with the young, a woman governor from — you know who I’m talking about — from Michigan,”
March 27, 2020	“I love Michigan, one of the reasons we are doing such a GREAT job for them during this horrible Pandemic. Yet your Governor, Gretchen “Half” Whitmer is way in over her head, she doesn’t have a clue. Likes blaming everyone for her own ineptitude!”
March 27, 2020	“Mike, don’t call the governor of Washington. You’re wasting your time with him…”
March 27, 2020	“I want them to be appreciative. We've done a great job.”
March 27, 2020	“We’re doing a great job for the state of Washington and I think the Governor...he’s constantly chirping and I guess complaining would be a nice way of saying it.”
March 29, 2020	“Where are the masks going? Are they going out the back door? How do you go from 10,000 to 300,000?”
March 29, 2020	“Unfortunately the enemy is death. It's death. A lot of people are dying. So it's very unpleasant.”
March 30, 2020	"Stay calm, it will go away. You know it -- you know it is going away, and it will go away, and we're going to have a great victory."
March 30, 2020	“I think New York should be fine, based on the numbers that we see, they should have more than enough. I mean, I’m hearing stories that they’re not used or they’re not used right.”
March 30, 2020	“I haven’t heard about testing in weeks. We’re testing more than any other nation in the world. We’ve got these great tests...But I haven’t heard about testing being a problem.”
March 30, 2020	“We inherited a broken test — the whole thing was broken.”
March 31, 2020	“...it’s not the flu. It’s vicious.”

Edited November 13, 2024 by kallend

[Phil1111 1,149]

Russia on the other hand has chosen to celebrate women. Well the upcoming first "Lady" of the United States anyway. "Russian state television network congratulated Melania Trump on her husband's reelection as president of the United States by showing nude photographs of her on live television...On the show 60 minutes, Russian television presenters, husband and wife Yevgeny Popov and Olga Skabeyeva,...including nude photographs from a GQ profile in 2000....host Olga Skabeeva tried to control herself during the whole broadcast to keep from bursting out laughing.

[billvon 2,990]

14 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Russia on the other hand has chosen to celebrate women. Well the upcoming first "Lady" of the United States anyway. "Russian state television network congratulated Melania Trump on her husband's reelection as president of the United States by showing nude photographs of her on live television.

That's OK because that's back when she was an illegal alien.

[base698 14]

16 hours ago, jakee said:

Why should I believe anything it says? It's just an amplified Reddit meme, isn't it?

No books are not Reddit memes.  Yes reading is a better way to get informed on the issues than media and social media.

14 hours ago, tkhayes said:

Why are you splitting hairs so much about what is and is not called vaccine and whether or not it should be? 

Words matter, people are not getting real vaccines now.  Did you not read the previous arguments I made about it?

[base698 14]

17 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

You're on a skydiving forum, I thought you knew all about personal responsibility.

In the end you are all socialists. You don't want the state involved, until you want the state involved. Big on personal responsibility, until it affects you directly, then you want other people to be responsible.

When someone wants to die of fentanyl or heroin in their own home, or have a cuddle puddle on MDMA at a boogie, that's all well and good.  When they start stealing catalytic converters and turning neighborhoods into dystopian hellscapes then it's not about personal responsibility anymore.

[base698 14]

16 hours ago, billvon said:

BTW again I STRONGLY advise you not to get your medical advice from politicians or political podcasters, and indeed it is best to ignore what they say

As we sat in the waiting room, my first born still in the oven, the doctor said they had the new mRNA shots ready to go and she advised my pregnant wife to get it.  How many pregnant woman have gotten them?  Have any babies made it to term?  Where are the numbers published?  Have you reviewed them?

None of these questions had answers and we got another doctor.

 

[tkhayes 348]

5 hours ago, base698 said:

Words matter, people are not getting real vaccines now.  Did you not read the previous arguments I made about it?

I read your arguments, they made no sense either.  Whether I call it a vaccine or not, the end result is the same, it helps halt the spread of Covid and saved millions of lives.  SO, no, the words 'vaccine' vs 'whatever else you want to call it' actually don't matter.

[base698 14]

3 minutes ago, tkhayes said:

I read your arguments, they made no sense either.  Whether I call it a vaccine or not, the end result is the same, it helps halt the spread of Covid and saved millions of lives.  SO, no, the words 'vaccine' vs 'whatever else you want to call it' actually don't matter.

Then what is your explanation why vaccine use (not counting covid) has plummeted?

Edited November 13, 2024 by base698

[billvon 2,990]

23 minutes ago, base698 said:

Then what is your explanation why vaccine use (not counting covid) has plummeted?

Anti-vaxxers.  The last wave of vaccine hesitancy was led by Andrew Wakefield, a UK doctor who held a number of news conferences in 1998 where he stated a potential link between a popular vaccination (MMR) and autism.  He followed this up with a "study" to prove it.  It turns out he was being paid by lawyers who were suing a vaccine company.  He was fired as a doctor, and started a full-on anti-vax campaign as a way to "get back" at the "system."

As a result, over 100,000 parents refused to vaccinate their children to "protect" them.  Over the next 20 years the UK experienced more than 12,000 cases of measles (up from a dozen a year or so) and hundreds of hospitalizations - and at least three deaths from measles, a disease that had almost been wiped out.

It recovered since then.  Now with the US right wing anxious to be seen as heroes by "protecting" people from vaccination, and with an anti-vaxxer in charge of HHS, a new anti-vax wave is growing here in the US.  Sadly, it's mostly children who will pay the price.

[Phil1111 1,149]

12 minutes ago, base698 said:

Then what is your explanation why vaccine use (not counting covid) has plummeted?

"Nationwide, vaccination coverage among children in kindergarten decreased to <93% during the 2023–24 school year, remaining below the Healthy People 2030 MMR target of 95% (3) for the fourth consecutive year. As recently as the 2019–20 school year, coverage with each measured vaccine was 95% (2).Oct 17, 2024"

Two percent over four years is hardly "plummeted".

But wait until Kennedy is in charge. He has announced that he wants to end fluoridation, pasteurization, "Kids shouldn't be eating grains", etc.

[billvon 2,990]

6 hours ago, base698 said:

As we sat in the waiting room, my first born still in the oven, the doctor said they had the new mRNA shots ready to go and she advised my pregnant wife to get it.  How many pregnant woman have gotten them?  Have any babies made it to term?  Where are the numbers published?  Have you reviewed them?

None of these questions had answers and we got another doctor.

As you know, prenatal care is the #1 determinant of the health of a newborn baby.

What happens to a fetus if you switch providers halfway through?  Did you do any research?  How many have done that?  How many babies have been born after such a decision?  How many are healthy?  Where are the numbers published?  Have you reviewed the numbers before you decided to take a potentially dangerous step in the care of an unborn child?

Or is that different?

As to the original question:

=======================================

February 6, 2024
Neonatal Outcomes After COVID-19 Vaccination in Pregnancy
Mikael Norman, MD, PhD1,2; Maria C. Magnus, PhD3; Jonas Söderling, PhD4; et alPetur B. Juliusson, MD, PhD5,6,7; Lars Navér, MD, PhD1,2; Anne K. Örtqvist, MD, PhD4,8; Siri Håberg, MD, PhD3,9; Olof Stephansson, MD, PhD4,10

JAMA. 2024

Question  Does exposure to mRNA COVID-19 vaccination during pregnancy increase the risk of adverse events in newborn infants?

Findings  In this population-based cohort study from Sweden and Norway that included 94 303 infants exposed to COVID-19 vaccination during pregnancy and 102 167 control infants born between June 2021 and January 2023, vaccination during pregnancy was associated with lower odds of neonatal intracranial hemorrhage, cerebral ischemia and hypoxic-ischemic encephalopathy, and neonatal mortality.

Meaning  In this large population-based study, vaccination of pregnant individuals with mRNA COVID-19 vaccines was not associated with increased risks of neonatal adverse events in their infants.
=========================================

[base698 14]

13 minutes ago, billvon said:

As to the original question:

Yeah that was in 2024, my story was in early 2021.  You still miss the impact on unknown risk in a decision.  That she had no information on whether pregnant women were in the study, they were not, was enough to leave her.  

The menstruation issue with The Greatest Medication Ever Invented* came out in 2022:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9633189/

Edited November 13, 2024 by base698

[normiss 798]

12 minutes ago, billvon said:

As you know, prenatal care is the #1 determinant of the health of a newborn baby.

What happens to a fetus if you switch providers halfway through?  Did you do any research?  How many have done that?  How many babies have been born after such a decision?  How many are healthy?  Where are the numbers published?  Have you reviewed the numbers before you decided to take a potentially dangerous step in the care of an unborn child?

Or is that different?

As to the original question:

=======================================

February 6, 2024
Neonatal Outcomes After COVID-19 Vaccination in Pregnancy
Mikael Norman, MD, PhD1,2; Maria C. Magnus, PhD3; Jonas Söderling, PhD4; et alPetur B. Juliusson, MD, PhD5,6,7; Lars Navér, MD, PhD1,2; Anne K. Örtqvist, MD, PhD4,8; Siri Håberg, MD, PhD3,9; Olof Stephansson, MD, PhD4,10

JAMA. 2024

Question  Does exposure to mRNA COVID-19 vaccination during pregnancy increase the risk of adverse events in newborn infants?

Findings  In this population-based cohort study from Sweden and Norway that included 94 303 infants exposed to COVID-19 vaccination during pregnancy and 102 167 control infants born between June 2021 and January 2023, vaccination during pregnancy was associated with lower odds of neonatal intracranial hemorrhage, cerebral ischemia and hypoxic-ischemic encephalopathy, and neonatal mortality.

Meaning  In this large population-based study, vaccination of pregnant individuals with mRNA COVID-19 vaccines was not associated with increased risks of neonatal adverse events in their infants.
=========================================

But that's just science. Evidence, facts, truth, and science no longer matter. 

We must accelerate the end of human beings on the planet! Apparently it appeases all the gods.

The fuck your feelings crowd are now putting their feelings over everything real in the world.

[nigel99 471]

30 minutes ago, billvon said:

Anti-vaxxers.  The last wave of vaccine hesitancy was led by Andrew Wakefield, a UK doctor who held a number of news conferences in 1998 where he stated a potential link between a popular vaccination (MMR) and autism.  He followed this up with a "study" to prove it.  It turns out he was being paid by lawyers who were suing a vaccine company.  He was fired as a doctor, and started a full-on anti-vax campaign as a way to "get back" at the "system."

As a result, over 100,000 parents refused to vaccinate their children to "protect" them.  Over the next 20 years the UK experienced more than 12,000 cases of measles (up from a dozen a year or so) and hundreds of hospitalizations - and at least three deaths from measles, a disease that had almost been wiped out.

It recovered since then.  Now with the US right wing anxious to be seen as heroes by "protecting" people from vaccination, and with an anti-vaxxer in charge of HHS, a new anti-vax wave is growing here in the US.  Sadly, it's mostly children who will pay the price.

The autism argument is alive and well. Although I recently came across a new twist- there’s a new fad of mothers here giving toddlers THC as an alternative to vaccines (THC not CBD)

[nigel99 471]

Back to the topic. 

There has been an unbelievable surge in misogynistic posts. Talk about the American Taliban. It seems the world has suddenly got permission to beat on women.