Neo-Nazi March in Ohio

[kallend 2,027]

11 hours ago, metalslug said:

You're still trying to sell that argument even after your own electorate saw it for the bullshit that it is?  

Clearly the voters swallow BS whole. 

Trump's well documented false or misleading claims total 30573 over 4 years from Jan 2017 to Jan 2021.

I give him credit, he may well be the most successful con-man of all time.  No wonder he loves the poorly educated.

[JoeWeber 2,720]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

Clearly the voters swallow BS whole. 

Trump's well documented false or misleading claims total 30573 over 4 years from Jan 2017 to Jan 2021.

I give him credit, he may well be the most successful con-man of all time.  No wonder he loves the poorly educated.

So you’re not buying one of his guitars?

[billvon 2,991]

13 hours ago, metalslug said:

You're still trying to sell that argument

Yes, because those are facts.  I know republicans are not into them, but everything I posted was a fact.

(Note that "no one likes facts" is not a good argument that they are not facts.)

Quote

Barely two posts back you had claimed that Biden's administration had lowered illegal migration by 75% even though that bill did not pass. How did he do that?

Because they got creative in ways to get more funding to the border, and he also used an executive order instead to shut down ALL crossings (even legal ones) if immigration exceeded a threshold.  This is NOT the right way to do it; it is once again overuse of executive orders by the administration.  But since Trump's loyalists killed the bill - which was the right way to do it, use the lawmaking body of the US to make immigration law - that was all they had left.

Quote

 . . . the bullshit that it is?  . . . it was BS legislation . . .It's also somewhat laughable

I get a kick out of how much such facts piss you off.

[metalslug 36]

3 hours ago, billvon said:

I get a kick out of how much such facts piss you off.

Don't kid yourself. We both know who's really having the last laugh here.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

20 hours ago, metalslug said:

Yes. That's precisely my point. Mainstream and extremist are mutually exclusive.

So wanting to exterminate all Jews is not extremist cause Hitler was voted in?

yeah, didn't think so.....

[nigel99 474]

33 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

So wanting to exterminate all Jews is not extremist cause Hitler was voted in?

yeah, didn't think so.....

It’s not inconceivable that if Trump and Steven Miller declare Mexico won’t take illegals. It is costing the US taxpayer, they are all murderers and rapists and should be executed. 

If that happened, I honestly don’t see MAGA Mike and the rest of the clown show objecting. 

Edited November 22, 2024 by nigel99

[metalslug 36]

4 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

So wanting to exterminate all Jews is not extremist cause Hitler was voted in?

yeah, didn't think so.....

Of course that's extremist both in action and as a minority outlook relative to a world view. Same comparison as Hamas. However; bent liberals see extremism as "that which I dislike" therefore when applying your logic and accounting for the size of the demographic, the opposing side may just as easily refer to liberals as extremists.

Ever heard of the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect? such as Liberals spewing a Godwin narrative of Trump until a good percentage of the electorate, who had learned or read what actual nazis were like, see the lie and then wonder what else the leftist media has lied to them about. So; please keep going with that conflation.. and keep losing.

[nigel99 474]

18 minutes ago, metalslug said:

Of course that's extremist both in action and as a minority outlook relative to a world view. Same comparison as Hamas. However; bent liberals see extremism as "that which I dislike" therefore when applying your logic and accounting for the size of the demographic, the opposing side may just as easily refer to liberals as extremists.

Ever heard of the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect? such as Liberals spewing a Godwin narrative of Trump until a good percentage of the electorate, who had learned or read what actual nazis were like, see the lie and then wonder what else the leftist media has lied to them about. So; please keep going with that conflation.. and keep losing.

You keep extending the population sample size to justify your position that MAGA aren’t extreme as they are a significant portion of the US population. 

A news flash for you MAGA are a minority compared to the majority of the world. Most of the world think they are racist nut jobs. 

[metalslug 36]

6 minutes ago, nigel99 said:

Most of the world think they are racist nut jobs. 

Most of the world? Really? ..and you speak on behalf of most of the world? India, China, both Americas, all of Europe and Africa...   Riiiight...

[JoeWeber 2,720]

27 minutes ago, metalslug said:

Most of the world? Really? ..and you speak on behalf of most of the world? India, China, both Americas, all of Europe and Africa...   Riiiight...

Mr. Metalslug,  please give us your travel history for the last ten years so we can gauge your actual understandings. Not just the individual countries but the number of days spent in each one. Best guesses are fine.

Edited November 22, 2024 by JoeWeber

[metalslug 36]

4 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Mr. Metalslug,  please give us your travel history for the last ten years so we can gauge your actual understandings. Not just the individual countries but the number of days spent in each one. Best guesses are fine.

To what end?  As no liberal here predicted the magnitude of their election loss; you can't even read the room in your own country, much less evaluate anecdotal evidence from being an occasional tourist.  Nobody can reliably know "what the world thinks" at any one moment but on balance of probability; "most of the world think that executing 6 million jews is bad" is a more likely truth than "Most of the world think MAGA are racist nut jobs. " 

[nigel99 474]

56 minutes ago, metalslug said:

To what end?  As no liberal here predicted the magnitude of their election loss; you can't even read the room in your own country, much less evaluate anecdotal evidence from being an occasional tourist.  Nobody can reliably know "what the world thinks" at any one moment but on balance of probability; "most of the world think that executing 6 million jews is bad" is a more likely truth than "Most of the world think MAGA are racist nut jobs. " 

Actually I consistently said Trump would win. 

You can’t have it both ways. You imply MAGA is not an extremist minority in a global context. By pushing back against my view that they are seen as nut jobs, you completely invalidate your own argument.

You can no more read the mind of the world than I can. 

Bill and a few others have listed out a number of extremist Trumpian policies. 

[metalslug 36]

1 hour ago, nigel99 said:

You imply MAGA is not an extremist minority in a global context.

Within a US context; liberals have no more claim to extremism than conservatives do. It's a fair bet that most of the world would not even know what 'being MAGA' is. What do you think defines 'being MAGA' ? -  Anyone who voted for Trump? Anyone who wears the hat? Anyone who's Republican?  It's a made-up catchphrase, not a demographic.

1 hour ago, nigel99 said:

Bill and a few others have listed out a number of extremist Trumpian policies. 

Them saying so does not make it so. It's subjective and you're referring to jakee's earlier Freudian slip liberal philosophy of “does mean that you have changed reality into what you say it is". If you're not budging on that then we'll need to agree to disagree.

Edited November 22, 2024 by metalslug

[tkhayes 348]

On 11/19/2024 at 2:06 AM, metalslug said:

....or you could choose to be aware his actual statement instead. Keep selling your preferred narrative to this echo chamber. I'm sure someone here believes you.

that is not the 'actual statement', that is a snopes article with an analysis of the actual statement.  If you want to post the actual statement, it is available and you can post that....

Go ahead and defend his comments.  he took two days to actually say anything meaningful.  And that is because he is a piece of shit.   And guess what?  He is still a piece of shit.

[billvon 2,991]

11 hours ago, metalslug said:

Of course that's extremist both in action and as a minority outlook relative to a world view.

Ah!  So the sample pool is the whole world!  In that case, Trumpism is _definitely_ extremism; most of the Western world sees it as such.

Quote

However; bent liberals see extremism as "that which I dislike"

Nope.  Such people see extremism as an extreme of a formerly moderate position (such as conservatism.)  For example, concentration camps for illegal aliens.

Quote

 . . .  a Godwin narrative of Trump until a good percentage of the electorate, who had learned or read what actual nazis were like . . .

Did you live in Nazi Germany under Hitler?  No?  Then where did you get your views on what that was like?  Hogan's Heroes?  FOX News?  Perhaps a more authoritative source like Alex Jones?

Let's see what actual survivors of Hitler's regime say:

Henry Oster lived in Germany during Hitler's regime:  "Make America Great Again . . . sound a bit too much like Germany must rise again.  Now, he doesn’t yell and scream like Hitler did.  But the insults, the demeaning other candidates, holding himself obviously as being superior … has a great similarity.”

Zeev Hod lost his father to a labor camp while he was living in Germany.  Is he concerned about Trump's likeness to Hitler?  "Not only has my concern not dissipated, it’s grown much stronger. Again, 1933’s Germany and America today are starkly different. And, contrary to common belief, history does not repeat itself. Not the way people think. The world, as a general rule, moves forward. Enough has changed that I don’t believe another Holocaust is imminent. But it’s hard to ignore the similarities between Trump and Hitler.  Like Hitler, Trump was able to tap into voter anger. His supporters believe they’re being denied the American dream because of globalization. And that’s exactly what Hitler was able to tap into back in the 1930s. Hitler went after the Jews, while Trump is zeroing in on Mexican immigrants and Muslims"

But what do they know, eh?  You listened to Alex Jones.

 

[jakee 1,489]

8 hours ago, metalslug said:

Within a US context; liberals have no more claim to extremism than conservatives do. It's a fair bet that most of the world would not even know what 'being MAGA' is. What do you think defines 'being MAGA' ? -  Anyone who voted for Trump? Anyone who wears the hat? Anyone who's Republican?  It's a made-up catchphrase, not a demographic.

'Most people in the world' is just a red herring. You can make a rhetorical point out of it but it's irrelevant to any conclusion. People don't know what MAGA is? Ok cool - ignore them.

What is MAGA really? Well that's pretty easy - it's Trumpism. He invented it, it's his cult of personality, it's his brand of politics. Is it extremist? Well, Trump tried to overturn a democratic election, Trump incited a mob attack on the seat of government, Trump has suggested deploying the US military against domestic enemies / political opponents... Yes. These are all extremist things.

[riggerrob 643]

When people try to modify the definitions of words like "extremist" (US politics) or "genocide" (Gaza) I begin to wonder if they have ever read the dictionary ..... or .... B they are lying to me. Extremist vocabulary scares me and makes me distrust the speaker.

Note" over the last decade, I have watched American politics, news, etc. polarize and I am not enjoying the changes.

Call me a grumpy old grey-bearded Master Rigger.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

12 hours ago, metalslug said:

Of course that's extremist both in action and as a minority outlook relative to a world view.

But the post before your sample size was just America.

If you have some intellectual honesty, you should understand that when you constantly have to move the goal posts to try and defend your position, your position is likely without merit.

[jakee 1,489]

1 hour ago, riggerrob said:

When people try to modify the definitions of words like "extremist" (US politics) or "genocide" (Gaza) I begin to wonder if they have ever read the dictionary ..... or .... B they are lying to me. Extremist vocabulary scares me and makes me distrust the speaker.

New MAGA defence secretary wrote a book saying the US military should fight a civil war against Joe Biden. Extremist?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/22/trump-defense-secretary-pete-hegseth-book

[nigel99 474]

55 minutes ago, jakee said:

New MAGA defence secretary wrote a book saying the US military should fight a civil war against Joe Biden. Extremist?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/22/trump-defense-secretary-pete-hegseth-book

Definitely not extremist, because Fox News is watched by a significant portion of the US population! …

Sorry got that wrong, definitely extremist as most of the world don’t watch Fox.

[jakee 1,489]

2 hours ago, nigel99 said:

Definitely not extremist, because Fox News is watched by a significant portion of the US population! …

Sorry got that wrong, definitely extremist as most of the world don’t watch Fox.

Well there's a conundrum! ;p 

[billvon 2,991]

3 hours ago, nigel99 said:

Definitely not extremist, because Fox News is watched by a significant portion of the US population! …

Sorry got that wrong, definitely extremist as most of the world don’t watch Fox.

Most conservatives don't really see much outside the US.

[metalslug 36]

12 hours ago, billvon said:

For example, concentration camps for illegal aliens.

That has your favourite 'Godwinian' sound to it, right? Keep milking that cow. Call it that if you like, or call them by their actual name; detention centres, and know that Obama established his own centres before Trump's era. If a certain someone had not allowed a flood of illegal migrants across his borders in the first place....

12 hours ago, billvon said:

Did you live in Nazi Germany under Hitler?  No?  Then where did you get your views on what that was like? 

We can be quite sure that you did not, so we're on equal foot there.

12 hours ago, billvon said:

Let's see what actual survivors of Hitler's regime say:

You're parroting cherry-picked opinions of a handful of people predisposed to being anti-trump for any number of possible reasons. I can also use that kind of argument.

The largest single percentage (some 49% estimated) of holocaust survivors live in Israel today. What is the general Israeli sentiment towards Trump you might wonder ? .....

You are so far down the rabbit hole again. 

Edited November 23, 2024 by metalslug

[nigel99 474]

12 hours ago, jakee said:

Well there's a conundrum! ;p 

https://youtu.be/HLNhPMQnWu4?si=EdWahRSZMGudXs0q

John Cleese provided the advantages of extremism. 

[olofscience 480]

14 hours ago, metalslug said:

What is the general Israeli sentiment towards Trump you might wonder ? .....

Whatever it is, you won't get it from a random opinion article and a single photo of a paid-for billboard...

Edited November 23, 2024 by olofscience