AFF3(Done Twice): Still Spinning when left to hover alone

[papervaccine 0]

Hello
I started my AFF program last month . Here is a brief summary about the jumps which I have made till now:
1. AFF 1: Cleared. Legs out but fixed it. 3 PT and landed smoothly

2. AFF 2: Good exit. 2 PT. Was bending sideways instead of moving shoulders up and down for turning. Good Fwd movement. Legs out but fixed them. Landed Smoothly. Told to repeat.

3. AFF 2: Cleared. 2 PT. Turned left 90 and right 90 nicely. Good FWD movement. Landed Smoothly.

4. AFF 3: Exit. 1 PT. Reserve instructor releases. Legs out . Fixed. Main instructor releases. Went into a spin. Checked altitude and Arched. Still Spinning. Main instructor redocks. Pulled myself and landed smoothly. Told to repeat it.Instructors told me that one of my legs was uneven and as such was going into a spin. Told me to maintain good legs position.

5. AFF 3: Exit. 1 PT. Reserve instructor releases. Legs out. Corrected. Tapped Toes. Tried to maintain heading, but again moved arms sideways instead of moving shoulders up and down. Main instructor releases. Went into a small spin. Main instructor redocks. Pulled and landed smoothly . Told to repeat.
Also, main instructor told me that as soon as the reserve instructor let me go, he felt a huge amount of force coming from the opposite side. This time, I also toe tapped to make sure my legs were ok. He told me to relax and breathe just before jumping. He felt that one of my body sides was more tensed as compared to the other. They also told me that they cant find anything wrong visually as my arch was good and so was my body alignment, but I was turning anyhow.

I know, I am tensed during the flight up in the plane, but as soon as I jump, I feel normal. My brain tells me that I am normal but my instructor told me that he felt i was tensed.

Also, what is the most important thing to prevent spinning ? Arch, body stability etc ?

Also, while doing left 90 and right 90 in AFF 2, I had to give a huge input from my side to turn. Could that be the case in AFF3 as for maintaining heading, I have to give huge input from my side ?
My physical stats are:
Ht: 172 cm
Wt: 140 pounds
Physique: Really thin

Any suggestions/criticisms would be highly appreciated ?

[skinnay 0]

Can you get to a tunnel? I was beyond freaked out mid-way through my AFF. I did 30 min in the tunnel and came back ready to kill it. All my fear of spinning out of control went away and I could just focus on the dive; it was an amazing difference and I can't recommend it enough.

[davelepka 4]

Just so you know, your size has nothing to do with any of those issues. Your size only comes into play when jumping with other people where you are trying to match their fall rates.

With that said, it's tough to teach over the internet, and damn near impossible without video. The only two things I can add are that you need to 'relax' as part of your plan to stop the spin. Arch, legs out, and relax.

Another thing you didn't mention was your heading. Did you pick one, or did you just look which ever way you were facing? If you pick a heading, and keep your eye on it when you start to turn, the act of turning your head to keep looking at the heading will help counter the turn. Likewise, if you let your eyes/head just follow the turn with you, it promotes the turn.

Talk to your instructors about relaxing and holding a heading before your next jump. Also, be aware that this is by far the most repeated jump in all of AFF. There are jumpers who repeated this jump several times (even up to 10), but stuck with it and eventually passed, finished AFF and became 'normal' skydivers. Being the first release, this is the jump where you really learn to 'fly' and it does take time.

[irishrigger 32]

Your not the first person who is having issues with Level 3.
its impossible to say what is causing this without being there or seing a video. was there any video of the jump? video is a very big and important learning tool.
i would also say instructors say 99/100 to relax on a level 3 or give that signal.

as for your situation, i did not hear anything about a heading, did you fix on a point on the horizon? where you thought how to stop a turn?
i teach all my students there is 4 ways to stop a turn.
1.Arch
2.Relax
3.Counterturn
4.Toe-Taps

one other thing i also tell my students, is that level 3 is a great fun jump and an awesome achievement. so remember to have fun, i also smile at my students and give them a big cheesy grin. so next time give your instructor a big smile in freefall, this also helps you to relax and enjoy it more.
some students just need to think more positive about what your doing and when the penny drops so to speak, you can immediatley see an improvement.

i will also say if you are near a wind tunnell it is money well spend and should fix what ever issue you have very quickly.

but if you have a video of your jumps please share and you should be able to get an answer to what your minor problem is.

but remember it is fun so enjoy it.

Rodger

[GooniesKid 0]

Damn..that sucks..

You now know the required maneuvers for AFF3...have you tried to practicing in the wind tunnel? 5 minutes in the tunnel will help out.

[ChrisD 0]

I'm a little concened that your second guessing your instructors at three jumps?

While it may seem admirable that your desire to learn has taken you here to this forum, have you given any thought that what you attempt to do on your own may conflict with what your being taught in peerson?

Many times what someone is saying isn't being recived or fully understood, your circumventing this process.

It's not a race to get off AFF status, having this mindset will not seerve you! Yes It's cheaper jumping with one, but at what cost?
C

You asked,...

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[papervaccine 0]

Thanks for the inputs. As of now, I do not have a video.
I will plan it for my next jump.
Yes, I choose a heading but I do not counter turn as soon as I am turning. I start counter turning a bit late, by which time I have already made a 90 deg turn.
One more thing : Does it require a huge amount of physical effort to turn ? My instructor told me that in AFF 2 , I had to give a lot of input in order to turn with 2 instructors.

And yeah, I have never smiled once while doing AFF. Only time I smiled was during tandem.So, next time I will remember to smile.

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

Turning doesn't take a lot of effort. I didn't actually think about how I did it the first few times I did, I just wanted to turn and I turned. It can be as easy as just turning your hands to deflect the air left or right. There are a number of methods you can use, do you recall which your instructors told you to do?

As others mentioned, if you have a vertical wind tunnel within a couple hundred miles, it's worth spending at least a few minutes there. Especially if you spring for the video -- it's very easy to see what you're doing in the tunnel with its fixed frame of reference and confined area. I did 6 minutes in ours after failing my level 2, and found that it really helped with the later jumps (I have a couple hours of tunnel time now,in addition to my jumps.)

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[guineapiggie101 0]

I agree with the others, tunnel will help with the spinning.

BTW, I had to repeat AFF 3 TEN times before I passed onto the next level.

Good luck!

[GooniesKid 0]

guineapiggie101

BTW, I had to repeat AFF 3 TEN times before I passed onto the next level.

Dude, seriously....10 x on just AFF3? That's a dismal record, bro.

[NWFlyer 2]

GooniesKid

***

BTW, I had to repeat AFF 3 TEN times before I passed onto the next level.

Dude, seriously....10 x on just AFF3? That's a dismal record, bro.

It's awesome how you take one poster's attempt to be encouraging and turn it into an opportunity to be an ass. Well done, bro.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

It's awesome how you take one poster's attempt to be encouraging and turn it into an opportunity to be an ass. Well done, bro.

You probably already know he's well-known for it.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[RyanFYF 0]

I failed level three twice. Did 10 minutes in the tunnel and it fixed everything. Biggest thing was I was too stiff. My arch was perfect they said but I was so stiff that I flopped around and "potato chipped" back and forth. Once I hit the tunnel and was able to relax and focus only on instruction and not all the crazy adrenaline around me, everything clicked. Next jump was 4 and 5 in one jump and 6 and 7 on the next. Good luck and hang in there, I know exactly how ya feel

[TrickyMike 1]

I had 32 minutes in the tunnel before my CatC last weekend & I'm going to have to repeat it. I was surprised. For me the big thing is to RELAX. I'm grabbing 10 more minutes on Thursday and will be back in the air on Saturday with my main goal being to just relax. YMMV.

[GooniesKid 0]

popsjumper

Quote

It's awesome how you take one poster's attempt to be encouraging and turn it into an opportunity to be an ass. Well done, bro.

You probably already know he's well-known for it.

Bro, where else have i been an ass?
I think i bring a different perspective to topics by simply saying what others are afraid to hear.
Do people here really think i'm an ass? A troll, maybe, but not an ass

[ChrisD 0]

I think we have a failure to communicate here.

KrisAnn values encoragment and support as do we all, and the world is a better place because she takes the time to point this out!!!
goonie, might, be pointing out that if you have a problem, and I use the word problem very loosly, because HEY if the person is learning and having fun doin it then that's GREAT,...


But

Let's for the sake of argument say, a student isn't progressing then we might as instructors have a concern as to the reason why,...perhaps the instructors section should be closed off and this thread taken there because I think having talks about students behind their back can cause a lot of stess in and among itself??

The rate at which an individual progress's shouldn't be a race, but alais I've seen too much talk and places where there is this pressure and if your a student reading this here and takin this too heart then perhaps you are needlessly putting too much pressure on yourself and for that ai'm sorry.

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[NWFlyer 2]

GooniesKid

***

Quote

It's awesome how you take one poster's attempt to be encouraging and turn it into an opportunity to be an ass. Well done, bro.

You probably already know he's well-known for it.

Bro, where else have i been an ass?
I think i bring a different perspective to topics by simply saying what others are afraid to hear.
Do people here really think i'm an ass? A troll, maybe, but not an ass

"Afraid to hear." That's cute that you think that telling someone you don't know, on the internet, that they're not cut out for skydiving is being helpful. That decision is best left to the individual jumper and his or her instructors.

Of course, there's also the fact that not everyone who turns out to be a good skydiver shows that potential early. Maybe it's time to bring back this old chestnut, which I love to share with students or newer jumpers who are struggling. It's the logbook of one of our very own moderators who took 48 jumps to get her A. http://crwdog.servebeer.com/CRWdog/HowCRW.html

Since then ... multiple world records, 9000+ jumps, instructional ratings, still jumping after 20 years in the sport.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[RyanFYF 0]

also I am the same weight as you and I am 6'0". They said I fall like a leaf and when I am on 2 ways I am always floating on the first dock until I slam my pelvis down to catch up. You'll get there, just keep your chin up. (No seriously, keep your chin up, it helps lol)

Also when you are in the tunnel, make sure they know what you want to correct. If they are just looking at your body position but you are on the net and they didn't know you had a spin problem then they may not know to help you correct it?

[J-S 0]

GooniesKid

***

BTW, I had to repeat AFF 3 TEN times before I passed onto the next level.

Dude, seriously....10 x on just AFF3? That's a dismal record, bro.

"She" (guineapiggy101) went on to do a few more AFFs and realized jumping solo wasn't in her best interest safty wise. She went on with the love of skydiving doing a bunch of tandems since. I'm not sure if she still is, but her decision makes her a heads up skydiver in my opinion.

[guineapiggie101 0]

J-S, thanks for the heads-up.
I was just trying to be supportive of the OP by telling him that two repeats ain't bad, since it took me 10 AFF3 jumps to move on.

I still do tandems and I have over 50 tandems right now :) .

I love being in the air. It is exhilarating.

BTW, as one poster suggested, smiling while jumping DOES help A LOT. It relaxes you. When one is tense, it makes for a not so good jump.

[Bignugget 0]

You can spin plenty on the net!

But yea tunnel time is great.

[dthames 0]

papervaccine

Thanks for the inputs. As of now, I do not have a video.

One more thing : Does it require a huge amount of physical effort to turn ? My instructor told me that in AFF 2 , I had to give a lot of input in order to turn with 2 instructors.

If you are trying to do a "group turn" and turn the docked group of 3, yes, it will take considerable more input than you turning alone.

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

Bignugget

You can spin plenty on the net!

But yea tunnel time is great.

In there you can tell you're spinning. The video guy goes around every couple seconds. It's not so obvious in the sky. Even if your instructor is going around, that could be him and not you. And if he's holding still, that could also be him and not you.

It took me a few jumps before my eyes got used to how things look up there. Before that it was kind of like looking at static on a TV. Until you can pick out features, it's a bit harder to hold a heading.

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[papervaccine 0]

Hello
Jumped again, but I am still spinning.
Here is the link to the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_QFbUYH0Lw

Grabbing tunnel time this weekend.
Will update accordingly.

Any suggestions/critics welcome.

[Trafficdiver 8]

Quote

Grabbing tunnel time this weekend.
Will update accordingly.

Any suggestions/critics welcome.

Had the same problem. Went to the tunnel. Never had the problem again.

Have fun