Killer as hero

[SkyDekker 1,465]

1 minute ago, jaybird18c said:

Just to be clear, given the stupid comparisons here, you agree with JoeWeber and think that it’s “good” that the CEO of a company in the United States was murdered because of supposed benefit which could arise from it?

Sure just as much as you agree with running medical experiments on defenseless people. After all you are American and an American granted immunity to the doctors and leader of Unit 731, in exchange for getting the benefit of the gruesome experiments.

 

You'd probably high five Colonel Murray Sanders and buy him a beer.

[wmw999 2,532]

No, he’s saying that just about everything is more complicated than it seems. There were medical advances that came from the Nazis, doesn’t make it worth it. If people start taking the cost and complexity of our medical system more seriously, that doesn’t make the murder worth it. 
Just as every war has thousands to millions of casualties. Some people think they’re worth it,  because wars happen over and over

Wendy P. 

[jaybird18c 24]

1 minute ago, SkyDekker said:

Sure just as much as you agree with running medical experiments on defenseless people. After all you are American and an American granted immunity to the doctors and leader of Unit 731, in exchange for getting the benefit of the gruesome experiments.

 

You'd probably high five Colonel Murray Sanders and buy him a beer.

I don’t agree with anything of the sort. How about you?

 

[jaybird18c 24]

3 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

No, he’s saying that just about everything is more complicated than it seems. There were medical advances that came from the Nazis, doesn’t make it worth it. If people start taking the cost and complexity of our medical system more seriously, that doesn’t make the murder worth it. 
Just as every war has thousands to millions of casualties. Some people think they’re worth it,  because wars happen over and over

Wendy P. 

Wendy, you have people here who are stating that it’s “good” that a CEO was assassinated. That speech is ok here, but saying that this group fosters assholes isn’t? There’s something seriously wrong here.

Edited December 9, 2024 by jaybird18c

[wmw999 2,532]

I read it as good can come from it. Murder isn’t good

Wendy P. 

[jaybird18c 24]

Just now, wmw999 said:

I read it as good can come from it. Murder isn’t good

Wendy P. 

Well, that’s not what he said and reading it with rose colored glasses doesn’t change it much.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

2 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

Well, that’s not what he said and reading it with rose colored glasses doesn’t change it much.

I don't condone drunk driving, but if a drunk driver had taken out Hitler in 1930 there would be about 6 million Jews who would not have died under his regime.

 

Do you think not having 6 million Jews exterminated would be a good thing?

 

This might be an enormous shock for you, this late in your life, BUT two things can be true at the same time......

[jaybird18c 24]

3 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

I don't condone drunk driving, but if a drunk driver had taken out Hitler in 1930 there would be about 6 million Jews who would not have died under his regime.

 

Do you think not having 6 million Jews exterminated would be a good thing?

 

This might be an enormous shock for you, this late in your life, BUT two things can be true at the same time......

I’ll ask again, since you wouldn’t answer before. “Just to be clear, given the stupid comparisons here, you agree with JoeWeber and think that it’s “good” that the CEO of a company in the United States was murdered because of supposed benefit which could arise from it?”

[SkyDekker 1,465]

2 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

I’ll ask again, since you wouldn’t answer before. “Just to be clear, given the stupid comparisons here, you agree with JoeWeber and think that it’s “good” that the CEO of a company in the United States was murdered because of supposed benefit which could arise from it?”

Look I would prefer not to answer questions from a guy who celebrates the extermination of jews.

[jaybird18c 24]

Just now, SkyDekker said:

Look I would prefer not to answer questions from a guy who celebrates the extermination of jews.

Where do you get that from?

[JoeWeber 2,820]

59 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

I’ll ask again, since you wouldn’t answer before. “Just to be clear, given the stupid comparisons here, you agree with JoeWeber and think that it’s “good” that the CEO of a company in the United States was murdered because of supposed benefit which could arise from it?”

I guess "if-then" hypotheticals are more than you can handle. 

[nigel99 567]

Revolution is nasty and messy.

I suspect with  corrupt billionaires in power in the US, this is going to become as common as school shootings if not more so. 

Sooner or later people rise up against exploitation and abuse. Let’s face it, for a vast number of Americans it goes to the heart of the second amendment. (Somehow the right to bear arms and the murder of a health insurance ceo should be a joke)

[billvon 3,067]

2 hours ago, jaybird18c said:

Well, that’s not what he said and reading it with rose colored glasses doesn’t change it much.

That is what he said.

Murder and assassination are not good.  Sometimes good can come from it.  

Jesus was killed for political reasons.  That was not good.  Did anything good come from that?

[gowlerk 2,249]

When enough high ranking members of the ruling class feel threatened by potential assassins gun control will become fashionable.

[jaybird18c 24]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

That is what he said.

Murder and assassination are not good.  Sometimes good can come from it.  

Jesus was killed for political reasons.  That was not good.  Did anything good come from that?

No. Here’s what he said:

“And if it shines a bright light on insurance industry cockroaches , their lobbyists, and the bastard republicans in Congress who keep America saddled with shit insurance then good. Medicare for all, it works.” - Joe Weber

There is no condemnation by him of the act of murder. There’s only an emphasis on perceived good that could come from it. That is low character and disgusting.

[gowlerk 2,249]

And just like that we find out the potential folk hero has feet of clay. An entitled rich kid with no particular reason to hold a grudge against his victim. Just a self important punk who thought he was smart enough to get away with murder.

[JoeWeber 2,820]

23 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

There is no condemnation by him of the act of murder. There’s only an emphasis on perceived good that could come from it. That is low character and disgusting.

Are you suggesting that every follow on post in an internet blog thread must have a clarifying preamble sufficient that it won't offend your delicate sensibilities, and also conform to your own strict conversational rules so that at the bare minimum you can understand the intent? Unlike the Bible, for example?

[jaybird18c 24]

2 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Are you suggesting that every follow on post in an internet blog thread must have a clarifying preamble sufficient that it won't offend your delicate sensibilities, and also conform to your own strict conversational rules so that at the bare minimum you can understand the intent? Unlike the Bible, for example?

I’m suggesting that you disappoint me when you don't play my game.

[JoeWeber 2,820]

2 hours ago, jaybird18c said:

I’m suggesting that you disappoint me when you don't play my game.

Of course that's to be expected from someone of low character like me.

Edited December 10, 2024 by JoeWeber

[SethInMI 174]

11 hours ago, gowlerk said:

And just like that we find out the potential folk hero has feet of clay. An entitled rich kid with no particular reason to hold a grudge against his victim. Just a self important punk who thought he was smart enough to get away with murder.

I'm not so sure this will be the eventual consensus take.  From the scrapes of his social and a few interviews with people who knew him, it sounds like he had some serious heath issues / chronic pain (back surgery).  He does feel more like a Ted Kaczynski that some "you killed my father, prepare to die" revenge story, but that doesn't make him just an entitled rich kid.  You make it sound like he was killing prostitutes for fun or something.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

13 hours ago, gowlerk said:

When enough high ranking members of the ruling class feel threatened by potential assassins gun control will become fashionable.

Anybody else remember when Reagan was governor of California?

When the Black Panthers started openly carrying firearms, all the "important people" (white people) lost their shit.

They put in some of the most restrictive gun control laws in the country in place.

Twenty or thirty years later, all the gun rights activists started calling it "The People's Republic of Kalifornia" because of the restrictive laws, ignoring the basic fact that those laws were put in place by conservatives.

[jaybird18c 24]

14 hours ago, billvon said:

Jesus was killed for political reasons.  That was not good.  Did anything good come from that?

From the Roman perspective, Jesus was killed for political reasons, declaring himself the King of the Jews.

From the Jewish Sanhedrin perspective, Jesus was killed for theological reasons by committing blasphemy.

From God’s perspective, however, Jesus went to the cross willingly, being perfectly obedient to the Father, serving as the propitiation for his people, paying their debt in full, so that they might be forgiven and reconciled to him.

[billvon 3,067]

1 hour ago, jaybird18c said:

From the Roman perspective, Jesus was killed for political reasons, declaring himself the King of the Jews.

From the Jewish Sanhedrin perspective, Jesus was killed for theological reasons by committing blasphemy.

From God’s perspective, however, Jesus went to the cross willingly, being perfectly obedient to the Father, serving as the propitiation for his people, paying their debt in full, so that they might be forgiven and reconciled to him.

Great.  I agree.  So he was killed for political reasons and that was bad.  But the result was forgiveness for all his followers, and the creation of an entire new religion, which was good.

Sounds like you take the same approach to that as Skydekker and Joe did to the CEO murder.

[riggerrob 643]

23 hours ago, billvon said:

Do you think that the death of Jesus had any good outcomes?

Authorities persecuted Jesus' followers for a few hundred more years until the Roman Emperor decided that Christianity was a good idea.  Once the Emperor converted to Christianity, then it became a fashionable religion and a few hundred thousand more quickly converted.

Then the Roman Catholic Church hung up a bunch of cruxifices with the image of Jesus bleeding out. I always saw the Catholic cruxifix as a "my way or the highway" religious symbol. As in non-conformists will be hung on a wooden cross along the highway leading into town and they will die a slow and painful (asphixiation) and disgraceful death in public "to encourage the others."

[jaybird18c 24]

16 minutes ago, billvon said:

Great.  I agree.  So he was killed for political reasons and that was bad.  But the result was forgiveness for all his followers, and the creation of an entire new religion, which was good.

Sounds like you take the same approach to that as Skydekker and Joe did to the CEO murder.

If he was just killed for political reasons, that’s bad.

The big difference is that the CEO murderer isn’t God.

Edited December 10, 2024 by jaybird18c