Jav or Vector

[daleskydive 0]

Has anyone had both a custom made Jav and Vector made for them that can comment on how the two compared in fit and comfort.I need a new container and like the look of the V3 micron BUT my custom Jav is vastly superior in comfort to any V3 that I have tried on. Yes, I realise that the Jav was made for me and none of the Microns were. Its just the difference in comfort was so great and I dont want to spend $3000 on a container that does'nt cut the mustard in the comfort and fit depatment.

[piisfish 140]

from the rigs I have seen, specially the overstuffed small V3's seem to loose some of the comfort. I call it a Brick Fit.
It might be different if the sizes of the canopies are more on the loose side.
Now if you want COMFORTABLE, check the new Voodoo Curve from Rigging Innovations

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[fendor1369 0]

I am a JAV man myself, my rig is a JAV all 15 of my work rigs are JAVs. I have jumped others, Mirage, Infinity, Vector, I even have a Talon container sitting in my closet but I have to say I have yet to find anything as comfortable as a JAV.

John - D.S 1313

"I'll jump it, Np. It's all good"

[daleskydive 0]

So you have tried their rig on?

[piisfish 140]

I didn't jump it, but tried it on at Skydive Expo. And EVERYBODY had the same remarks

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[tsalnukt 1]

All of the Javs I have jumped are far more comfortable than the vectors I have jumped. Vector feel like a brick on your back. The placement of the main closing loop inside the container puts a natural curve in the back pad that fits my back better and the yoke seems to have a more natural curve to it so it rides my shoulders better. The backpad on the vectors seems really flat to me and the yoke comes off the backpad at almost a 90 degree angle and doesn't ride on the shoulders as nice as the javelin.

What does it for me for the javelin is the placement of the main closing loop as I mentioned before and more importantly the placement of the AAD cutter, underneath the pack job on top of the floor plate. If you had an AAD that on partially cut the loop you would still be able to deploy the reserve.

Just me 2 cents. Take it as you like.

[Squeak 17]

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So you have tried their rig on?

Dale try a couple on at the DZ, see which you like best.
I have a V3 love it, Had a Jav , loved it less.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[skydiverek 63]

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The placement of the main closing loop inside the container puts a natural curve in the back pad that fits my back better and the yoke seems to have a more natural curve to it so it rides my shoulders better.

It also promotes entanglements with the suspention lines, such as this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45VtzmtA_C0

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placement of the AAD cutter, underneath the pack job on top of the floor plate. If you had an AAD that on partially cut the loop you would still be able to deploy the reserve.

Such a placement leaves the longest 'tail' of the cut loop, ending up with this (added poor rigging and no silicone on the loop):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYIUjKGxagI

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=2101957;page=1;mh=-1;;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC

[skymama 37]

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Now if you want COMFORTABLE, check the new Voodoo Curve from Rigging Innovations

I agree. I tried it on at the Expo also and was very impressed with how comfortable it felt.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[tsalnukt 1]

Yes there was a couple of issues with the main closing loop and poor grommet setting with completely exposed grommets, but not just on javelins. This issue has been resolved for sometime now and I would like to see how the updated closing loop retainer could snag on anything these days.

your second point.........Poor rigging, poor rigging, poor rigging. and as has been proven poor rigging on any rig can fuck up even the best of reserve systems. This video is of a vector with the cutter on the first flap on top of the actual reserve. NOT with the cutter on the floor plate
The recommended closing loop length on a javelin is 2 1/4 inches. If the recommendations of the manufacturer are followed with regard to reserve packing then this should not even be an issue.

[normiss 843]

Jav is much more comfy IMO.

I HATE the sewn together d-bag pilot chute though.
Doubles your cost of maintaining the pilot chute.

unless you modify it anyway....

[skydiverek 63]

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Yes there was a couple of issues with the main closing loop and poor grommet setting with completely exposed grommets, but not just on javelins. This issue has been resolved for sometime now and I would like to see how the updated closing loop retainer could snag on anything these days.

I was not talking about the badly seated grommet. Rather, abot the 'detachable' - a material 'tounge' sticking out from the wall (between main and a reserve container). Like on Javelin. Closing loop originates from that 'tounge'. A line can halfhitch around that tounge (this is what happened in the first movie I linked).
I do not understand why the main closing loop originates from the 'tounge', and not directly from the wall.

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your second point.........Poor rigging, poor rigging, poor rigging. and as has been proven poor rigging on any rig can fuck up even the best of reserve systems. This video is of a vector with the cutter on the first flap on top of the actual reserve. NOT with the cutter on the floor plate

Exactly. So the cut 'tail' on Javelin is even longer than on Vector!

[JohnMitchell 16]

I've jumped both of those brands. Here's my favorite.
http://www.viewpoint.com/installer/index.html?05.00.02.13|frame&http://www.velocityrigs.com/products.php?product=infinity&sub=design

[DSE 5]

Add my vote for the Curv.
Just got one, exceptionally loving it.
Have owned Jav, Mirage, Stunts, and other RI products.
Currently own 6 rigs, the Curv is unquestionably the most sweetness I've ever thought of.

[pchapman 279]

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glements with the suspention lines, such as this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45VtzmtA_C0
[/url]

That was the famous non-fatal main-reserve entanglement in New Zealand by Mike Holmes in 2006, which was on a Teardrop rig, lines catching around the main closing loop anchor tab. But yes, the tab is similar to that on a Javelin. (Wings & Racer also anchor the main loop from inside the pack tray, but leave only the loop itself "hanging out.")

If we're talking about snags: On the Jav, I also don't like how soft the main side flaps are, relative to the neighboring hard plastic in the ends of the flaps. A poorer combination for snagging lines. But it is admittedly a very rare event.

[pchapman 279]

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I've jumped both of those brands. Here's my favorite.
http://www.viewpoint.com/installer/index.html?05.00.02.13|frame&http://www.velocityrigs.com/products.php?product=infinity&sub=design

(Just my choice, but I'm not going to bother with another browser plug in just to view the material.)

[kuai43 7]

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I was not talking about the badly seated grommet. Rather, abot the 'detachable' - a material 'tounge' sticking out from the wall (between main and a reserve container). Like on Javelin. Closing loop originates from that 'tounge'. A line can halfhitch around that tounge (this is what happened in the first movie I linked).

Excess suspension lines are the only thing that can half-hitch the 'tongue'. Stowing lines on the d-bag to keep excess minimal and having the excess s-folded to the bottom of the container will keep them away from the 'tongue'. After stowing the d-bag in the container, one of my packing checks is pulling the d-bag down away from the reserve wall while pulling up on the closing loop (& tongue) and taking a visual of the tongue to be certain no lines are near it.

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I do not understand why the main closing loop originates from the 'tounge', and not directly from the wall.

Not a rigger, but I would guess to facilitate changing the loop.

Every fight is a food fight if you're a cannibal

Goodness is something to be chosen. When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man. - Anthony Burgess

[skydiverek 63]

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If we're talking about snags: On the Jav, I also don't like how soft the main side flaps are, relative to the neighboring hard plastic in the ends of the flaps. A poorer combination for snagging lines. But it is admittedly a very rare event.

Yup, I have heard only about two such entanglements, both on Javelins. One fatal...

[Hellis 0]

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your second point.........Poor rigging, poor rigging, poor rigging. and as has been proven poor rigging on any rig can fuck up even the best of reserve systems. This video is of a vector with the cutter on the first flap on top of the actual reserve. NOT with the cutter on the floor plate

Exactly. So the cut 'tail' on Javelin is even longer than on Vector!

But to be fair, on Javelins you have less flaps to push.
The PC on a Javelin only have two flaps, not four as on the rig on the video.
Right?

[adventurechick 0]

Infinity! :-)

[skydiverek 63]

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But to be fair, on Javelins you have less flaps to push.
The PC on a Javelin only have two flaps, not four as on the rig on the video.
Right?

Number of flaps (to be pushed by reserve PC) has nothing to do with that phenomenon. Rather groomets (creating friction on the loop). Riggers: how many grommets does the cut loop 'tail' have to clear on a) Javelin b) Vector ?

[piisfish 140]

From memory 6 grommets each, unless there is a skyhook then 7. But I could be wrong.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[skydiverek 63]

Also, Vector3 reserve PC is 45 lbs strong. Javelin's is 22 lbs.

[Deyan 36]

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All of the Javs I have jumped are far more comfortable than the vectors I have jumped. Vector feel like a brick on your back. The placement of the main closing loop inside the container puts a natural curve in the back pad that fits my back better and the yoke seems to have a more natural curve to it so it rides my shoulders better. The backpad on the vectors seems really flat to me and the yoke comes off the backpad at almost a 90 degree angle and doesn't ride on the shoulders as nice as the javelin.

My experience with Vectors is exactly like yours. I always think about them as a plank with a harness, but just to be fair, the location of the main closing loop on the new Vectors is inside the main container as well.

"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

[dan43 0]

Consider the Icon as well, just bought a new I3, very comfortable rig.
Have previously owned Australian made Talon's and two Jav's. The Icon is by far the best yet..