normiss 798 #1 December 19, 2012 So I'm hearing a well know left coaster was recently caught pencil packing a BUNCH of military rigs and was summarily fired, as he should be. Isn't his a criminal act? Would the FAA yank your ticket if caught? This is booolshit IMO. I'd never use that rigger again. Err, packer, sorry. It's one thing to pencil pack yourself (IMO) but a rigger??????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #2 December 19, 2012 I would think the FAA would pull the ticket. I don't think anyone would make a criminal case unless someone was injured or killed. I'd beat their ass. If I'm getting a pencil pack I'm only paying half price. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #3 December 19, 2012 Pencil packing a paying customers rig? That sounds like theft to me, and reckless behavior to boot."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrouse 0 #4 December 19, 2012 Sorry fella's I'm a NOOB! But whats "Pencil Packing"?Lovin every second of it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #5 December 19, 2012 Quote Sorry fella's I'm a NOOB! But whats "Pencil Packing"? Every 180 days your reserve must be repacked by an FAA certified rigger. This takes an hour-ish and runs $50-$100, depending on the rigger. Pencil pack is when they just sign off the packing data card as repacked without really doing it. The packing data card is carried in a small pocket on every rig. Your instructor can show you if you ask. A little history, when I started in the 70's the repack cycle was 60 days. Almost every rigger I knew would give a pencil pack at 60 days if you asked for it. I had no qualms about having mine "packed" that way. When they changed the regs to 120 days, the USPA had a ceremony with the FAA and presented the FAA with a giant pencil, saying "We won't need this anymore." Pretty damn funny, really. The 180 days we have now is okay, but I'd be fine with one year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrouse 0 #6 December 19, 2012 OK, understood! Now I know, thanks!!Lovin every second of it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #7 December 19, 2012 Quote So I'm hearing a well know left coaster was recently caught pencil packing a BUNCH of military rigs and was summarily fired, as he should be. Isn't this a criminal act? Would the FAA yank your ticket if caught? This is booolshit IMO. I'd never use that rigger again. Err, packer, sorry. It's one thing to pencil pack yourself (IMO) but a rigger??????? Are military rigs subject to the same regs as civilian rigs? Are military riggers subject to the same rules as civilian riggers? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 798 #8 December 20, 2012 Great question. If that's what happened here, maybe so, as this person was fired so far as I understand. Personally though, no clue. I let go of military concerns a lifetime ago. I also agree with John....once a yea IS fine by me. I do adhere to current regulations though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,357 #9 December 20, 2012 Hi Dougles, I can only tell what I have learned over the years. It might be right ( I think it is ) or it might be wrong. In a nutshell: Both the military (DoDefense ) and the FAA ( DoTransportation ) are in the Executive Branch of the gov't ( but you probably know that ). One is not over the other. When it comes time to launch a whole bunch of F-15s because nasty things are happening, you for sure to not want some GS-2 ATC guy telling them they have to wait for the Piper to get out of way. For both questions: No IMO However, it is my understanding that both the Army Team & the Navy Chuting Stars do adhere as much as they can for good relations and no bad headlines. Again, just my opinion; others may have different thoughts, JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,357 #10 December 20, 2012 Hi John, Quote I had no qualms about having mine "packed" that way. A couple of good friends would pencil pack their rigs ( after I had packed them ) using my name. I told them I did not care but do not use my name. So then there was this Middle Eastern rigger who packed a whole bunch of them over a long period of time. His name was U BIN HAHD JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #11 December 20, 2012 I hate when my rigger pencil packs my rig.... and charges me full price.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #12 December 20, 2012 I should clarify for all, those pencil packs at 60 days were free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigMark 1 #13 December 20, 2012 When the packing is bad for the reserve more than it is good for deployment something needs to change. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #14 December 20, 2012 Quote Are military rigs subject to the same regs as civilian rigs? *** DSE, If the Military is jumping out of a Part 91 operated (civilian) airplane: then the answer is "yes". See Below: 65.111 Certificate required. (a) No person may pack, maintain, or alter any personnel-carrying parachute intended for emergency use in connection with civil aircraft of the United States (including the reserve parachute of a dual parachute system to be used for intentional parachute jumping) unless that person holds an appropriate current certificate and type rating issued under this subpart and complies with §§ 65.127 through 65.133. This is the main reason for the Military comp certificate which is a fairly simple and painless transition to a FAA certificate. There are a lot of contractors hauling Military jumpers in Part 91 aircraft out there these days. As far as the Military rigs, see below: Approved parachute means a parachute manufactured under a type certificate or a Technical Standard Order (C-23 series), or a personnel-carrying U.S. military parachute (other than a high altitude, high speed, or ejection type) identified by a Navy Air Facility, an Army Air Field, and Air Force-Navy drawing number, an Army Air Field order number, or any other military designation or specification number. Are military riggers subject to the same rules as civilian riggers? *** That I do not know. But, the individual could hold both a military and civilian rating at the same time. And again, the question is what aircraft is he or she jumping from. BS, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #15 December 20, 2012 QuoteWhen the packing is bad for the reserve more than it is good for deployment something needs to change. I recently pulled out my reserve that had been packed for about 5 yrs. There was no determinable difference between it and one that had been packed 6 months ago. After seeing that I would have no problem jumping my rig with a 5 yr old reserve pack. The same can not be said for the 3 yr old main pack job. It was a brick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,357 #16 December 20, 2012 Hi Spence, Quote my reserve that had been packed for about 5 yrs One very well know jumper ( no names will be mentioned ) told me, a number of years ago, that he had to use his reserve that had been packed for 5 yrs. It worked just as designed. 5 year repack cycle anyone? JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pottesur 0 #17 December 20, 2012 What is the reason for the cycle to be 180 days? We have 360 days here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #18 December 20, 2012 Quote Hi Spence, Quote my reserve that had been packed for about 5 yrs One very well know jumper ( no names will be mentioned ) told me, a number of years ago, that he had to use his reserve that had been packed for 5 yrs. It worked just as designed. 5 year repack cycle anyone? JerryBaumchen I actually wouldn't have a problem with that because I know how my rig is taken care of. I don't leave it outside in the back of my truck, get is wet swooping, piss on it or the likes. I wouldn't want to borrow a 5 yr pack job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #19 December 20, 2012 >5 year repack cycle anyone? George Galloway has been doing testing through 20 years or so. They still open just fine. Of course whether a typical (in-use) rig will actually open after 20 years is another story . . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,439 #20 December 21, 2012 And that's the rub. If there's a regulation, it really has to target the average/low average caretaker of gear, not the excellent. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #21 December 21, 2012 Well of course. But I don't give a shit what the other guy has on his back.If someone is stupid enough to not take care of their rig and jump it out of date... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #22 December 21, 2012 We're supposed to get repacks? .......That sounds expensive. Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krip 2 #23 December 21, 2012 Quote What is the reason for the cycle to be 180 days? We have 360 days here. This is America We know everything, and our rigger's need the work.One Jump Wonder Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lauraliscious 0 #24 December 21, 2012 My husband is both a military rigger and a civilian rigger. They are 2 completely different qualifications. I will ask him if he wants to chime in here.... Enemiga Rodriguez, PMS #369, OrFun #25, Team Dirty Sanchez #116, Pelt Head #29, Muff #4091 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cutaway68 4 #25 December 22, 2012 Quote Well of course. But I don't give a shit what the other guy has on his back.If someone is stupid enough to not take care of their rig and jump it out of date... Right up until the point they come through you on final. A rigger pencil packing anything other than their own rig that never leaves their sight/direct supervision, a very bad idea, IMO. Don't Pull Low... Unless You ARE!!! The pessimist says, "It can't get any worse than this." The optimist says, "Sure, it can." Be fun, have safe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
