Canadians are slightly annoyed

[BIGUN 1,321]

27 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Are you truly at peace with your example?

I am.

27 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Can you imagine standing in front of a 10th grade class and explaining to them why sitting out important elections is the right and responsible thing to do on occasion? 

I can imagine explaining that Biden shit the bed in his last debate and the DNC powers to be threatened Biden with the 25th Amendment, side-stepped the primary process and that the entire Democratic party did not vote FOR Harris, but against Trump. 

I would also explain that you should not vote for whom everyone says you should vote for - cause they said so. I would tell them that every vote counts and that you should vote FOR someone; not against. 

[JoeWeber 2,731]

Just now, BIGUN said:

I am.

I can imagine explaining that Biden shit the bed in his last debate and the DNC powers to be threatened Biden with the 25th Amendment, side-stepped the primary process and that the entire Democratic party did not vote FOR Harris, but against Trump. 

I would also explain that you should not vote for whom everyone says you should vote for - cause they said so. I would tell them that every vote counts and that you should vote FOR someone; not against. 

Piffle. I think you are happy Trump won and probably consider the breaking of eggs for an omelette trope an appropriate way of seeing things now. Well stand by for a lot of omelette. So you have given us civics lessons on letter writing etc., tell me, when Trump defies any court order sanctions not the hot air part of the decision just who is going to do the enforcement? The US Marshalls under the control of his personal DOJ? You know, the DOJ who just now and in broad daylight dropped the case against Adams on Trumps orders? No? Then who? Airborne Rangers?

[nigel99 490]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

Good luck on getting a pass with that. This will go down as the most consequential, and likely the most harmful to our nation, election in our lifetimes and possibly beyond. Reality: if you didn't vote for Harris or Trump you didn't vote. Bottom line: democracy isn't for voyeurs. I mean seriously, as a thinking person how can you justify abrogating such an important duty when the impact of the past election was so clear? Are you truly at peace with your example? Can you imagine standing in front of a 10th grade class and explaining to them why sitting out important elections is the right and responsible thing to do on occasion? 

I disagree. A big problem with a two party system that is inherently broken is that nobody challenges it.

Voting independent is very different to not voting. 

[JoeWeber 2,731]

Just now, nigel99 said:

I disagree. A big problem with a two party system that is inherently broken is that nobody challenges it.

Voting independent is very different to not voting. 

Quite apparently the entire US political system starting with our now known to be laughable constitution is a crap system. No matter, what makes every reasonably democratic system work, two parties or more, is the integrity of the candidates. Trumps failings, damage potential, and his astonishingly brazen lack of integrity has been on full flood light display for all of the last 8 years. Regardless of any other considerations now was not a time to play silly wish it weren't so games and not vote knowing that was in his favor. That said, as I said, even a vote for Trump was better than none at all.

[normiss 805]

42 minutes ago, nigel99 said:

I disagree. A big problem with a two party system that is inherently broken is that nobody challenges it.

Voting independent is very different to not voting. 

Not in America it isn't. The 2 party system is in control. Until that changes, any vote for anything other than R or D is a wasted vote.

[JoeWeber 2,731]

Just now, normiss said:

Not in America it isn't. The 2 party system is in control. Until that changes, any vote for anything other than R or D is a wasted vote.

Bingo. 

[BIGUN 1,321]

6 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Bingo. 

Bullshit. 

Postelection analysis of 2024 voters’ behavior reveals that independent voters grew their share of the vote, split their votes between their choices for president and Senate candidates, and ended up expanding their overall influence.

The moderates are tired of the division. The RNC and the DNC had a loss, the Independent party had the only gain. To Nigel's point; at some point, the RNC and DNC needs to look up and go, "uh Oh."

https://theconversation.com/in-2024-independent-voters-grew-their-share-of-the-vote-split-their-tickets-and-expanded-their-influence-245125

[gowlerk 2,216]

2 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

One of your PM's, Doug Ford said that he would cut the electrical power to a number of states in the US upper mid-west.  Doing that at this time of yr will get your attention.

We wouldn't do that. Power grids are interdependent and we all give and get for one thing. And besides, the problem doesn't really come as much from the upper mid-west. Doug Ford has called an unneeded snap election in Ontario to take advantage of the situation and is big time pandering.

[JerryBaumchen 1,371]

1 hour ago, nigel99 said:

I disagree. A big problem with a two party system that is inherently broken is that nobody challenges it.

Voting independent is very different to not voting. 

Hi Nigel,

I disagree with you.  If I remember correctly, you have always lived/voted in a multi-party system where it is usually one party joining with another party to form a coalition to gain a majority.

It does not work like that here.  We have that whole Electoral College thingy.

One party wins & one party loses.

I've been voting since 1964 & have never seen any 3rd party do anything other than cause chaos; not a snowballs chance in hell of winning.

While some not agree; IMO any vote for other than Harris [ yes, I had to hold my nose * ], was a vote to put Trump back in office.

Jerry Baumchen

*  Been holding my nose since 1964.

 

Edited Tuesday at 09:55 PM by JerryBaumchen

[JoeWeber 2,731]

Just now, BIGUN said:

Bullshit. 

Postelection analysis of 2024 voters’ behavior reveals that independent voters grew their share of the vote, split their votes between their choices for president and Senate candidates, and ended up expanding their overall influence.

The moderates are tired of the division. The RNC and the DNC had a loss, the Independent party had the only gain. To Nigel's point; at some point, the RNC and DNC needs to look up and go, "uh Oh."

https://theconversation.com/in-2024-independent-voters-grew-their-share-of-the-vote-split-their-tickets-and-expanded-their-influence-245125

Neato! And did anyones favorite dog catcher get a few extra votes while a narcissistic madman was being escorted into the Whitehouse in exchange? Bullshit, indeed.

[jakee 1,500]

1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

Bullshit. 

Postelection analysis of 2024 voters’ behavior reveals that independent voters grew their share of the vote, split their votes between their choices for president and Senate candidates, and ended up expanding their overall influence.

Errrrrr, by voting for a mix of Republicans and Democrats. Not by voting for anyone outside the two party system.

[BIGUN 1,321]

3 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

starting with our now known to be laughable constitution

I was going to let this go, but it keeps ringing in my head and was a magnifier as to our differences. 

[JoeWeber 2,731]

Just now, BIGUN said:

I was going to let this go, but it keeps ringing in my head and was a magnifier as to our differences. 

You don't think Trump is laughing at it? How about Mike Johnson who today said the courts shouldn't interfere with Trump. As I said, just stand by until Trump simply refuses to comply with not only court orders but court sanctions and see how well it works. They laugh at the idea of other than an all powerful executive and are now laughing at our constitutional separation of powers. I hope it's ringing loud and clear now because it was never the constitution our leaders were loyal to as much as them being loyal to the idea of a functioning democracy where power transfers peacefully and no person is above the law, even a President. 

[JerryBaumchen 1,371]

3 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

You don't think Trump is laughing at it? How about Mike Johnson who today said the courts shouldn't interfere with Trump. As I said, just stand by until Trump simply refuses to comply with not only court orders but court sanctions and see how well it works. They laugh at the idea of other than an all powerful executive and are now laughing at our constitutional separation of powers. I hope it's ringing loud and clear now because it was never the constitution our leaders were loyal to as much as them being loyal to the idea of a functioning democracy where power transfers peacefully and no person is above the law, even a President. 

Hi Joe,

I could not agree more.

I keep saying, 'Shades of the Third Reich.'  Once Hitler had the judges in his pocket, it was all over.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)   Re:   an all powerful executive

They want more than that; they want a total dictator.

[nigel99 490]

3 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Nigel,

I disagree with you.  If I remember correctly, you have always lived/voted in a multi-party system where it is usually one party joining with another party to form a coalition to gain a majority.

It does not work like that here.  We have that whole Electoral College thingy.

One party wins & one party loses.

I've been voting since 1964 & have never seen any 3rd party do anything other than cause chaos; not a snowballs chance in hell of winning.

While some not agree; IMO any vote for other than Harris [ yes, I had to hold my nose * ], was a vote to put Trump back in office.

Jerry Baumchen

*  Been holding my nose since 1964.

 

Hi Jerry,

I honestly don’t know where you guys go next. I understand that our systems are different, and I don’t really understand the US system.

But one thing is clear, US democracy is much more fragile than anyone previously thought and the fact Republicans are openly saying they don’t need to follow the law, I’m not sure what else you can do.

In the UK when America used to pontificate about being the gold standard of democracy, many people compared the US to a teenager who ‘knew everything’ and pointed out our systems in Europe had evolved over about a 1000 years.

[JerryBaumchen 1,371]

35 minutes ago, nigel99 said:

Hi Jerry,

I honestly don’t know where you guys go next. I understand that our systems are different, and I don’t really understand the US system.

But one thing is clear, US democracy is much more fragile than anyone previously thought and the fact Republicans are openly saying they don’t need to follow the law, I’m not sure what else you can do.

In the UK when America used to pontificate about being the gold standard of democracy, many people compared the US to a teenager who ‘knew everything’ and pointed out our systems in Europe had evolved over about a 1000 years.

Hi Nigel,

Re:   US democracy is much more fragile than anyone previously thought and the fact Republicans are openly saying they don’t need to follow the law

I agree with you.  Just how fragile has never been really tested; the closest IMO is when FDR tried to pack the Supreme Court & the courts shot him down.

Also:  How long? - Speakers Corner - Skydiveforum.com

I am not a Mitch McConnell fan.  But, one thing about Mitch, he knows the worm will turn once the other guys are in office.

Let's let Trump have his fun for awhile; until those tariffs cause prices in Mrs. America's pocketbook and Mr. America loses his job.

And this:  Aren't You Glad You Voted For Trump - Speakers Corner - Skydiveforum.com

As always:  We live in interesting times.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  I can still remember how many, many Americans thought Joe McCarthy was right.

 

 

[jakee 1,500]

7 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Joe,

I could not agree more.

I keep saying, 'Shades of the Third Reich.'  Once Hitler had the judges in his pocket, it was all over.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)   Re:   an all powerful executive

They want more than that; they want a total dictator.

And the thing is, they told you this was the plan. The head of the Heritage Foundation and architect of Project 2025 said Viktor Orban of Hungary is THE model of conservative governance. A ruler who ended freedom of the press, brought the judiciary under complete political control and is an authoritarian proto-dictator. And we know Trump is happy to follow that model because he’s already literally tried to overthrow the government.

But according to true partisans like Bigun, Kamal Harris mumble mumble something, and that’s just as bad.

[BIGUN 1,321]

13 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

You don't think Trump is laughing at it?

Ahhh. OK, I thought you meant you personally. My bad. 

[JoeWeber 2,731]

Just now, BIGUN said:

Ahhh. OK, I thought you meant you personally. My bad. 

Undoubtedly I am guilty of some other personal incursion so no worries. But I did mean it as a general proposition that might include you, to be accurate. I'll guess that you take your oaths quite seriously and when you swore to defend the constitution, even at your life's peril, you meant it and would have done it and you won't have that intention defiled by some skinny ninny on an internet forum. Fair enough. However, it is just words written down that don't mean a damn thing more important than those in any Dr. Zeuss book if it's adherents, and in particular our elected officials, don't willingly and selflessly conform to the ideas in it. Of course those qualities are the exact antithesis of Donald J. Trump and why I think you were dead nuts wrong to toss away your vote in protest when it really mattered. The truly shitty thing is that this time around we can not glibly chime this too shall pass and the constitution you revere may actually not be worth anything after our current batch of clowns use it for bathroom paper. 

[gowlerk 2,216]

12 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

However, it is just words written down that don't mean a damn thing more important than those in any Dr. Zeuss book if it's adherents, and in particular our elected officials, don't willingly and selflessly conform to the ideas in it.

Who will defend the constitution if the POTUS and the SCOTUS and the Congress all seem bent on upending it? Will the well armed populace rise up? Not as long as the parts of the constitution that seem important to them are not threatened. It will just be someone else's problem.  

[nigel99 490]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

Undoubtedly I am guilty of some other personal incursion so no worries. But I did mean it as a general proposition that might include you, to be accurate. I'll guess that you take your oaths quite seriously and when you swore to defend the constitution, even at your life's peril, you meant it and would have done it and you won't have that intention defiled by some skinny ninny on an internet forum. Fair enough. However, it is just words written down that don't mean a damn thing more important than those in any Dr. Zeuss book if it's adherents, and in particular our elected officials, don't willingly and selflessly conform to the ideas in it. Of course those qualities are the exact antithesis of Donald J. Trump and why I think you were dead nuts wrong to toss away your vote in protest when it really mattered. The truly shitty thing is that this time around we can not glibly chime this too shall pass and the constitution you revere may actually not be worth anything after our current batch of clowns use it for bathroom paper. 

Meanwhile in the Whitehouse …

Interestingly Chatgbt refused to create the image when I included “a fat man wearing a blue suit and red tie, with orange skin and yellow hair” 

[BIGUN 1,321]

On 2/12/2025 at 11:24 AM, JoeWeber said:

I'll guess that you take your oaths quite seriously and when you swore to defend the constitution, even at your life's peril, you meant it

Truth. Over 20 years and 3 continents. 

On 2/12/2025 at 11:24 AM, JoeWeber said:

you won't have that intention defiled by some skinny ninny on an internet forum.

I sometimes wonder if that skinny ninny was ever in service to anything other than himself. 

[JoeWeber 2,731]

4 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Truth. Over 20 years and 3 continents. 

I sometimes wonder if that skinny ninny was ever in service to anything other than himself. 

So that's it, if you haven't spent 20 years in the Rangers your voice is functionally quieter? There is more to unpack in your statement then I think you understand. No matter, thank you for your service but please understand it gives not an iota of additional weight to your political views in the civilian world. Also, do please rerun the tapes here to notice that my objections to today's so called "conservatism", and protest voting, has nothing to do with increasing my advantages and everything to do with wishing less harm on others.

[BIGUN 1,321]

2 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

if you haven't spent 20 years in the Rangers

First, not a Ranger.

Let's repack and then unpack. Every citizen's right are protected by the Constitution. Your opinon of the constitution is, "words written down that don't mean a damn thing more important than those in any Dr. Zeuss book if it's adherents . . ." You brought up my oath to that Constitution and traipse into threads trying to shame me for my Independent vote - even saying you respect those who voted for Trump over my vote decision. 

It's quite simple. Every American has the right to free speech - I spoke with my vote and did not vote the party platform for reasons we've discussed over the past year. I am proud of my vote and to step out of my party platform after 40 years of voting mostly RNC. Nor, do I appreciate the reference - after putting my ass on the line - that the constituion is akin to Dr. Suess book. 

[JoeWeber 2,731]

9 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

First, not a Ranger.

Let's repack and then unpack. Every citizen's right are protected by the Constitution. Your opinon of the constitution is, "words written down that don't mean a damn thing more important than those in any Dr. Zeuss book if it's adherents . . ." You brought up my oath to that Constitution and traipse into threads trying to shame me for my Independent vote - even saying you respect those who voted for Trump over my vote decision. 

It's quite simple. Every American has the right to free speech - I spoke with my vote and did not vote the party platform for reasons we've discussed over the past year. I am proud of my vote and to step out of my party platform after 40 years of voting mostly RNC. Nor, do I appreciate the reference - after putting my ass on the line - that the constituion is akin to Dr. Suess book. 

Here's the entire sentence: "However, it is just words written down that don't mean a damn thing more important than those in any Dr. Zeuss book if it's adherents, and in particular our elected officials, don't willingly and selflessly conform to the ideas in it." 

If anything, instead of cherry picking to make an aggrandizing point, you might just think about my point: the people you have been voting for don't give a rats ass about your allegiance to a document and they are proving that out loud every absurd day now with their words and actions. So what were you actually serving to protect, the documents or what they stand for?  You know, equality, unalienable rights, all religions not just Christianity and on and on.