Say what you will about Trump…

[jakee 1,563]

But at least he really is anti war and committed to breaking the cycle of endless, ill thought out foreign occupations and Middle East meddling and oh god dammit!

Trump says US will ‘take over’ Gaza Strip in shock announcement during Netanyahu visit

 

Cos yeah, forcibly resettling the Palestinians. That’ll end as well as it did last time. 

[nigel99 568]

14 hours ago, jakee said:

But at least he really is anti war and committed to breaking the cycle of endless, ill thought out foreign occupations and Middle East meddling and oh god dammit!

Trump says US will ‘take over’ Gaza Strip in shock announcement during Netanyahu visit

 

Cos yeah, forcibly resettling the Palestinians. That’ll end as well as it did last time. 

The dude is hopefully about 200 years late to the party with wanting to take over countries.

Canada, Greenland, Panama and now Gaza (although no brown people are allowed to stay).

[BIGUN 1,406]

24 minutes ago, nigel99 said:

The dude is hopefully about 200 years late to the party with wanting to take over countries.

We took over Japan after WWII and rebuilt their nation, then handed it back. What Trumpo is saying is that with our help, it could be a beautiful as Rio. I "think" what he's posturing for - is the Arab nations to step up and do as they did in Abu Dhabi.

I envision a Skydive Gaza

[nigel99 568]

1 minute ago, BIGUN said:

We took over Japan after WWII and rebuilt their nation, then handed it back. What Trumpo is saying is that with our help, it could be a beautiful as Rio. I "think" what he's posturing for - is the Arab nations to step up and do as they did in Abu Dhabi.

I envision a Skydive Gaza

You saw the comments where he said all the Palestinians must leave though?

[BIGUN 1,406]

1 hour ago, nigel99 said:

You saw the comments where he said all the Palestinians must leave though?

I did not. Permanent or Temporary? I'm trying to stay off the news cycle. Seems to just piss me off lately. 

[nigel99 568]

13 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

I did not. Permanent or Temporary? I'm trying to stay off the news cycle. Seems to just piss me off lately. 

Trump called for Jordan, Egypt and other Arab states to take in Palestinians from Gaza, who he said had no alternative but to abandon the coastal strip, which must be rebuilt after nearly 16 months of a devastating war between Israel and Hamas militants. He said he would support resettling Palestinians “permanently”, going beyond his previous suggestions that Arab leaders have already steadfastly rejected. - From the Guardian, but I’ve seen it elsewhere.

Honestly, I feel fucked regarding the news. First off I’m not in the US, so technically it isn’t my problem. I’ve got sucked into watching it and delving into the truth behind the statements (because the media always spins it). If I continue to watch it, I am setting myself up for 4 years of anxiety and anger. 

But I can’t shake the feeling that sticking my head in the sand is a huge mistake. Not only does US policy affect the rest of the world, but Australia is one step behind.  

It’s exhausting trying to figure out the right way forward.

[nigel99 568]

29 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

I did not. Permanent or Temporary? I'm trying to stay off the news cycle. Seems to just piss me off lately. 

https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/february-4-2025

https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/

By the way, these two sources appear to capture events fairly concisely and factually. Heather Cox Richardson is a historian and seems to be driven by a desire to have a factual record of current events, rather than a specific political agenda. 

[nigel99 568]

Did I mention Australia has a far right/Maga problem? 

A local politician has legally changed his name to Austin Trump, because he likes Trump’s ideology. 

The real kicker - he’s got 35 charges of domestic violence and is a lawyer.

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/wa-politician-changes-name-to-aussie-trump-20250206-p5la2h.html

[jakee 1,563]

8 hours ago, BIGUN said:

We took over Japan after WWII and rebuilt their nation, then handed it back. What Trumpo is saying is that with our help, it could be a beautiful as Rio.

What he is saying is who knows what he's saying? What he's announced is not a plan, it's just a vague desire to do some ethnic cleansing and hand some sweetheart development deals to his cronies. None of it is going to happen so in one sense who cares, but still, choosing a time just as the peace deal is kicking in to antagonise Hamas all over again is rather odd.

Quote

I "think" what he's posturing for - is the Arab nations to step up and do as they did in Abu Dhabi.

If you don't even know what he actually said why are you interpreting what you think he meant? Could you have a more uninformed opinion?

7 hours ago, BIGUN said:

I did not. 

It was clearly stated in the OP, so that really is your fault.

[BIGUN 1,406]

8 hours ago, nigel99 said:

I’ve got sucked into watching it and delving into the truth behind the statements (because the media always spins it). If I continue to watch it, I am setting myself up for 4 years of anxiety and anger. 

I'm there. This past year hit quite the crescendo.

[JerryBaumchen 1,436]

14 hours ago, nigel99 said:

Did I mention Australia has a far right/Maga problem? 

A local politician has legally changed his name to Austin Trump, because he likes Trump’s ideology. 

The real kicker - he’s got 35 charges of domestic violence and is a lawyer.

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/wa-politician-changes-name-to-aussie-trump-20250206-p5la2h.html

Hi Nigel,

He has the credentials to fit right in.

Jerry Baumchen

[gowlerk 2,249]

22 hours ago, BIGUN said:

I did not. Permanent or Temporary? I'm trying to stay off the news cycle. Seems to just piss me off lately. 

Unfortunately your POTUS is calling for Gaza to be "cleansed" of Palestinians so someone more "peaceful" can take the land. I'm sure it would be rebuilt to be "Great Again".

[BIGUN 1,406]

2 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Unfortunately your POTUS is calling for Gaza to be "cleansed" of Palestinians so someone more "peaceful" can take the land. I'm sure it would be rebuilt to be "Great Again".

As mentioned, I have not been staying up on the news cycle, but this sounded very ominus, so I sought out to find his actual words. In the end, it was quite an exercise to try and find them amongst the similar noise you stated. Every media outlet is hair on fire enraged and then I found this:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Kud_7va2VYg

 It's temporary and if you look at the pictures of devastation, how could anyone safely and healthily live there. It sounds like a rebuilding effort. 

I still haven't found what he actually said, so if you have a source, please feel free to share (not what others said he said) 

[gowlerk 2,249]

12 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

I still haven't found what he actually said, so if you have a source, please feel free to share (not what others said he said) 

He also said Palestinians could be resettled away from Gaza, "in areas where the leaders currently say no". 

A couple relevant stories. The gist of it is that he favours a plan for the US to take over Gaza, rebuild it, and turn it into "the Riviera" of the middle east. The two million current Gazans? They would be relocated to other Arab nations. This is the very definition of ethnic cleansing and is what the Israelis have been attempting but cannot accomplish. Not even with US help. Short of a modern day genocide that is. 

[gowlerk 2,249]

Here is a more clear story on what was said versus what was posted on Truth, which was a slight walk back. None of it really matters except to outrage people as The Dotard loves to do. None of it can or will happen. It is just more blathering shoot from the hip bullshit. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4g9xgj2429o

[jakee 1,563]

7 hours ago, BIGUN said:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Kud_7va2VYg

 It's temporary and if you look at the pictures of devastation, how could anyone safely and healthily live there. It sounds like a rebuilding effort. 

How can you continue to be this deliberately naive? She doesn't know what Trump's plan is. No-one knows what Trump's plan is because he doesn't have a plan, but whatever he thinks the plan will be, he has never said it will be temporary. This is direct from Trump: The Gaza Strip would be turned over to the United States by Israel at the conclusion of fighting. The Palestinians, people like Chuck Schumer, would have already been resettled in far safer and more beautiful communities, with new and modern homes, in the region. They would actually have a chance to be happy, safe, and free. The U.S., working with great development teams from all over the World, would slowly and carefully begin the construction of what would become one of the greatest and most spectacular developments of its kind on Earth. No soldiers by the U.S. would be needed! Stability for the region would reign!!!

 

Trumps vision is for the Palestinians to be gone, permanently. As he said repeatedly before the election, he doesn't want to rebuild Gaza City, he wants to build a new Gaza beach resort and condos. The only Palestinians he envisions ever coming back to their homeland are the ones that'll be needed for the housekeeping and lawn mowing jobs at Mar-a-Gazo, just like the illegal Mexicans he uses back home. It's not even about support for Israel really, it's just pure opportunism, ethnic cleansing for developer profit. You said the inspiration was Rio, the inspiration is Soch - a holiday resort for the ultra wealthy that primarily exists to funnel staggering wealth into Putins own pockets.

7 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Every media outlet is hair on fire enraged and then I found this:

Honestly right - how dare you accuse the people who actually pay attention of that, when you are speaking from a position of intentional ignorance?

Edited February 7 by jakee

[BIGUN 1,406]

6 hours ago, gowlerk said:

This is the very definition of ethnic cleansing and is what the Israelis have been attempting but cannot accomplish.

Ken, I think you're overreacting. I listened to and read all three items you posted. In the BBC article; it states that the 25 mile strip of Gaza would take 21 years to make it habitable again. Relocating people during a reconstruction effort is not ethnic cleansing. After walking thru the streets of New Orleans with Gov. Jindal after Katrina; he said it would take ten years to rebuild. It did. 

Everyone was given a chance to relocate until the reconstruction occurred, many returned, many did not. They'd made a life elsewhere.  

[jakee 1,563]

9 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Ken, I think you're overreacting. I listened to and read all three items you posted. In the BBC article; it states that the 25 mile strip of Gaza would take 21 years to make it habitable again. Relocating people during a reconstruction effort is not ethnic cleansing. After walking thru the streets of New Orleans with Gov. Jindal after Katrina; he said it would take ten years to rebuild. It did. 

Why are you so determined to sanitise this in the face of all available evidence and common sense? Trump has just shut down all foreign aid (except that which Israel uses to fight the Palestinians) because America First…. but now he’s committing to a gigantic 20 year humanitarian project for the benefit of the Palestinians? Fucking nonsense, zero consistency with anything else we know about his agenda.

Regarding New Orleans - were any residents forced to live in Mexico, Cuba or Canada in the meantime? No? Bit different then isn’t it. And are we to assume any of the temporarily relocated Gazans will be allowed to stay in Israel while this is happening? No? Doesn’t sound quite so good for the generous humanitarian motives then. 
 

The  regarding the rest of what the Trump Press Sec said, if we wanna take that at face value. No boots on the ground, no US taxpayer dollars spent. So again then, what the fuck are we actually talking about? Someone going to have to provide security for the builders, so it’s going to have to be complete Israeli military control of the Gaza Strip, right? What are the chances Hamas goes for that? And who’s paying? Not the US, definitely not Israel (which would indirectly be the US anyway), what about the Arab states? Well I didn’t see any of the Bin Sauds standing on that stage alongside Netanyahu, did you? I think we can assume that’s a non starter. So that leaves the thing Trump has always been talking about - private investment in beachfront resort development. Funny thing about investors, they tend to want a return. How many Gazans do you think would be able to afford a realistic cost of a brand new beautiful world beating sea view condo with neighbouring golf course?

Come on man, drop your loyalties and be serious for once.

 

[billvon 3,070]

7 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Ken, I think you're overreacting. I listened to and read all three items you posted. In the BBC article; it states that the 25 mile strip of Gaza would take 21 years to make it habitable again. Relocating people during a reconstruction effort is not ethnic cleansing. 

I think the Marsh Arabs in Iraq would disagree there.  The ostensible rationale for the diversion of the Tigris and Euphrates under Saddam Hussein was flood control; who could object to THAT?   In fact it was intended to remove the Marsh Arabs from the area.  (Or "relocate" them, to use the terminology above.)

But while I agree with Jakee that the goal is to eliminate the Arabs from the area, it won't happen - even though Trump (and Israel) will push for it.  Trump doesn't have the organizational acumen to make it happen, nor does he have the willingness to do something unpopular (like get the US mired in a Middle Eastern war) to accomlish his goals.

Trump will talk about this for a while, and when it doesn't happen, he will blame Biden and have another way to claim that everything HE did was perfect - and so the Democrats are to blame for war in the Middle East.

Quote

After walking thru the streets of New Orleans with Gov. Jindal after Katrina; he said it would take ten years to rebuild. It did. 

Well, except the primary goal there was rebuilding - not removal of the Cajuns (for example.)

[BIGUN 1,406]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

Trump doesn't have the organizational acumen to make it happen, nor does he have the willingness to do something unpopular (like get the US mired in a Middle Eastern war) to accomlish his goals.

Trump will talk about this for a while, and when it doesn't happen, he will blame Biden and have another way to claim that everything HE did was perfect - and so the Democrats are to blame for war in the Middle East.

This is the most plausible. 

 

1 hour ago, billvon said:

Well, except the primary goal there was rebuilding - not removal of the Cajuns (for example.)

Well, there is that. Welcome back. 

Edited February 7 by BIGUN

[jakee 1,563]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

But while I agree with Jakee that the goal is to eliminate the Arabs from the area, it won't happen - even though Trump (and Israel) will push for it.  Trump doesn't have the organizational acumen to make it happen

You agree with me about that too, I did already say that it's not going to happen.

31 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Well, there is that. 

No kidding. The only question is why you tried to pretend otherwise.

[gowlerk 2,249]

10 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Ken, I think you're overreacting. I listened to and read all three items you posted. In the BBC article; it states that the 25 mile strip of Gaza would take 21 years to make it habitable again. Relocating people during a reconstruction effort is not ethnic cleansing.

Either you are just totally naive or you are totally blind, or you think the rest of us are fools. There is no chance that Palestinians would be allowed to return to their homeland. Which isn't really their original homeland anyway, it is the refugee camp they were pushed into and allowed to live in because Israel couldn't force them out completely. Gaza would become a part of Israel under this plan. It is hard for me to tell if you don't get it or are just pretending not to get it. You show too many signs of  intelligence for me to accept that you are that ignorant of the history and implications of this plan. So cut out the bullshit.

Edited February 7 by gowlerk

[billvon 3,070]

33 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

There is no chance that Palestinians would be allowed to return to their homeland.

If they are relocated - agreed.  Israel (and Trump) would say "we're just rebuilding!  Why would anyone not want us to rebuild?  Do you want to force Palestinians to live in rubble?  You're the one who hates Palestinians."  Then they'd start the process.  First they'd build the resorts of course, along with the infrastructure for them.  Then the high income housing for Israelis.  Then the police stations.  If the money holds out, of course.  And if not - well, it will just take a little longer is all.

Then, sometime around 2050, they'd invite the first Palestinians back in.  If they can afford the housing prices, of course.

[JerryBaumchen 1,436]

50 minutes ago, billvon said:

If they are relocated - agreed.  Israel (and Trump) would say "we're just rebuilding!  Why would anyone not want us to rebuild?  Do you want to force Palestinians to live in rubble?  You're the one who hates Palestinians."  Then they'd start the process.  First they'd build the resorts of course, along with the infrastructure for them.  Then the high income housing for Israelis.  Then the police stations.  If the money holds out, of course.  And if not - well, it will just take a little longer is all.

Then, sometime around 2050, they'd invite the first Palestinians back in.  If they can afford the housing prices, of course.

Hi Bill,

Welcome back; good to see you here, again.

IMO Trump is just throwing food against the wall.  He is all about headlines & attention.  He seems to want to sign more Exec Orders every day just to stay in the news.

I also think he is trying something [ anything? ] that could get him a Nobel Peace Prize.  I do think that is his eventual goal.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  As I say, he is all about headlines not common sense:  States scramble after Trump orders halt to EV charging network buildout ‘effective immediately’ - oregonlive.com

I wonder how Musk feels now?

Edited February 7 by JerryBaumchen

[jakee 1,563]

52 minutes ago, billvon said:

Then, sometime around 2050, they'd invite the first Palestinians back in.  

It'd be a bit sooner than that, Mar-a-Gazo needs people to work in housekeeping. Migrant status though, so they don't get any ideas.