Tell me again how Trump isn't a Russian stooge?

[jakee 1,528]

3 hours ago, BIGUN said:

I do not. One who did nothing as a politician. 

Teachers do something.

Plumbers do something

Electrical engineers do something. 

Pick any vocation and they do something. That something however, does not make one qualifed for the prime leadership position of the country. 

It’s curious to find a traditional Republican declaring that only beltway insiders and career politicians are able to showcase their leadership qualifications. Real work just… doesn’t count? She was the California AG, right? She was the leader of that entire organisation. In what way does a Senator actually experience leading anyone, in comparison?

3 hours ago, BIGUN said:

IMO she was the example of Peter Principle. She's in the past. Keep dwelling on it and you'll lose future focus. 

That means you think she was actively incompetent. Why? You have given no reason whatsoever for this allegation. Just as you have given no reason for claiming she would be a puppet. Of course you’ve given no reason for that claim because you know it’s absurd. Why would she be a puppet? The President doesn’t have to do what the party tells them, the President sets the agenda of the party. If any party insiders disagree the President tells them to go fuck themselves.

[JoeWeber 2,760]

6 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Morning, Jerry. I have every right to vote the way I want and shame is not a factor in my decision-making process. I voted FOR someone. A couple of you have mentioned that you would respect my vote more if I had voted FOR Trump. That would have made me fill icky. You guys were this |  | close to having me vote for Biden, then he fell apart and you wanted me to vote for the puppet. You wanted me to vote for Harris basicially "cause I said so." That's not persuasion, that's intimidation.   

Negative. We wanted you to vote for Harris to decrease the chance Trump would be elected. You chose otherwise. In our country and in the last election, in particular, some of us consider that to be ill considered. Don’t over complicate our simple thinking.

Edited February 28 by JoeWeber

[billvon 3,028]

8 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Pick any vocation and they do something. That something however, does not make one qualifed for the prime leadership position of the country. 

Agreed.  A plumber might not be qualified.  But being a DA, then an Attorney General, then a Senator, then Vice President - that does lend experience that tends to qualify one for the job.

Quote

 Her policies as Senator were what? What did she accomplish? Not advocate, actually accomplished. 

The Senate's output is based on the votes of 100 people; it's a group effort.  No one person accomplishes anything concrete.  They sponsor bills.  They work on language for amendments.  They participate in committees.  They advocate for their positions.  They lobby other senators.  They vote.  They kiss babies and shake hands.  That's the job.  Like you said, pick any vocation and they do something, even if you don't think it's much.

To single her out, she was first senator to co-sponsor the Medicare for All Act of 2017.  She and Rand Paul sponsored a bill to reform the bail system in the US.  She wrote parts of the Senate bill making lynching a federal crime.  She sponsored a bill to expedite the reunion of families separated at the border.  And she voted hundreds of times while a senator.  This experience came in handy when she set the record for tiebreaking votes in the Senate while she was VP.

Now, you might think all that's nothing, but you could say the same thing about most vocations.  Do insurance salesmen really do anything?  They don't create the insurance.  They don't pay out that insurance.  They don't directly help people.  They just move paper.

Heck, I was only one of 400 people on the big-way record in Thailand.  I didn't accomplish anything extraordinary.  I wasn't an organizer, adviser or sector captain.  I didn't stand out.  All I did was not screw up by doing the same thing I had done in the past ~300 bigways I did.  Did I do nothing?

Quote

IMO she was the example of Peter Principle. She's in the past. Keep dwelling on it and you'll lose future focus. 

Failure to learn from the past means a future of Trumps.  And while you might be OK with that, I think that would be the end of US democracy.

[JerryBaumchen 1,384]

7 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Morning, Jerry. I have every right to vote the way I want and shame is not a factor in my decision-making process. I voted FOR someone. A couple of you have mentioned that you would respect my vote more if I had voted FOR Trump. That would have made me fill icky. You guys were this |  | close to having me vote for Biden, then he fell apart and you wanted me to vote for the puppet. You wanted me to vote for Harris basicially "cause I said so." That's not persuasion, that's intimidation.   

Hi Keith,

Re:  I have every right to vote the way I want

I never said anything about THAT.

I did say IMO.

Jerry Baumchen

 

[JerryBaumchen 1,384]

8 hours ago, BIGUN said:

I do not. One who did nothing as a politician. 

Teachers do something.

Plumbers do something

Electrical engineers do something. 

Pick any vocation and they do something. That something however, does not make one qualifed for the prime leadership position of the country. 

IMO she was the example of Peter Principle. She's in the past. Keep dwelling on it and you'll lose future focus. 

Hi Keith,

Re:  One who did nothing as a politician. 

I realize that you are just one vote.  I doubt that your vote made any difference in your state.  Sort of, just like me in my state.

However, to say that she did nothing is IMO wrong.

Might you tell us just what Trump did in his 4 yrs in office; 2017-2021?

Every bill that he signed was put in front of him & he signed them.  I seriously doubt that he understood anything that was in those bills.

IMO Trump is a very small-brained person.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  Re:  Electrical engineers do something. 

And, this retired Mech Engr has done a few things. 

Guess I didn't make the cut.  

 

 

Edited February 28 by JerryBaumchen

[kallend 2,056]

34 minutes ago, billvon said:

 

To single her out, she was first senator to co-sponsor the Medicare for All Act of 2017.  She and Rand Paul sponsored a bill to reform the bail system in the US.  She wrote parts of the Senate bill making lynching a federal crime.  She sponsored a bill to expedite the reunion of families separated at the border.  And she voted hundreds of times while a senator.  This experience came in handy when she set the record for tiebreaking votes in the Senate while she was VP.

 

Yes, but other than that. . . . .

 

[jakee 1,528]

Trump and Vance really showed the true depth of their depravity today. Petulant scumbags putting their own fragile egos above global security and the life and death of tens of thousands of people.

[BIGUN 1,338]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

The Senate's output is based on the votes of 100 people

If they show up to vote. Bill. ~ GovTrack.

I looked at her record before the election. 

She is the past.  I'm looking to the future. 

[wmw999 2,475]

29 minutes ago, jakee said:

Trump and Vance really showed the true depth of their depravity today. Petulant scumbags putting their own fragile egos above global security and the life and death of tens of thousands of people.

Zelensky probably wasn't willing to pay for a whore to suck his dick. Respect is earned or given, NOT demanded. If you have to demand it, it's not respect.

Wendy P.

[JoeWeber 2,760]

2 hours ago, billvon said:

Failure to learn from the past means a future of Trumps.  And while you might be OK with that, I think that would be the end of US democracy.

And that is the bottom line. I've often said it's never too late to make the right decision; let's see if that holds true as regards the last election. 

[JoeWeber 2,760]

2 hours ago, wmw999 said:

Zelensky probably wasn't willing to pay for a whore to suck his dick. Respect is earned or given, NOT demanded. If you have to demand it, it's not respect.

Wendy P.

Wow. Just F'n wow. We can only hope the Europeans have the capacities to counter our stupid, narcissistic, President and keep Putin on the non-nuclear ropes while we wait on a miracle. Indeed, elections have consequences.

[billvon 3,028]

2 hours ago, BIGUN said:

If they show up to vote. Bill. ~ GovTrack.

I looked at her record before the election. 

What was Trump's record of voting in the Senate before his first election?  Inquiring minds want to know.

Because it sounds like you are arguing that bankrupting companies and being a reality TV star is better preparation for the presidency than being an attorney general, a district attorney, a senator and a vice president.

And again, if you are looking to a future of Trumps, I want no part of it.  Even if Trump's opponents have an annoying laugh, and didn't vote as often as you would have liked them to.

[billvon 3,028]

2 hours ago, wmw999 said:

Zelensky probably wasn't willing to pay for a whore to suck his dick.

Trump does not have that problem.

[jakee 1,528]

2 hours ago, BIGUN said:

If they show up to vote. Bill. ~ GovTrack.

I looked at her record before the election. 

Did you though? Did you really? "We don’t track why legislators miss votes, but it’s often due to medical absences, major life events, and running for higher office. Legislators running for president or vice president typically miss votes while on the campaign trail — that’s normal."

And since you held up Klobuchar as a contrast to Harris in the Senate, I'm guessing you never looked at her record for the same period before the election. Or you did, and you're just being slippery again. If she'd become the Dem nominee at any point, even against Trump, you'd just have used the same bullshit attack lines against her.

[BIGUN 1,338]

57 minutes ago, billvon said:

And again, if you are looking to a future of Trumps,

In no way. I'm looking to a future of bipartisan leadership. I'm going to flip to the Independent Party and from now on will be voting for the person. If they're too far left or right - I will not vote for them. 

[nigel99 521]

1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

In no way. I'm looking to a future of bipartisan leadership. I'm going to flip to the Independent Party and from now on will be voting for the person. If they're too far left or right - I will not vote for them. 

Despite the criticism you face I see this as the way forward. A groundswell of support for a strong third option and breaking the back of a two party has to be the best solution. 

The dems dropped the ball covering for Bidens decline and I suspect are also quite beholden to big business influence. While I disagree with your view of Harris, she is not the person who can overturn a broken system.  I believe a lot of people have recognised that the system is broken. Trump and his ilk are able to exploit it for more power and money. Most major party politicians are content to keep the gravy train going. 

With all due respect to those of you over about 70, I don’t think people over 70 should be in high pressure jobs like President , speaker of the House or the Supreme Court. Certainly a role as advisors and consultants.

[JerryBaumchen 1,384]

21 minutes ago, nigel99 said:

Despite the criticism you face I see this as the way forward. A groundswell of support for a strong third option and breaking the back of a two party has to be the best solution. 

The dems dropped the ball covering for Bidens decline and I suspect are also quite beholden to big business influence. While I disagree with your view of Harris, she is not the person who can overturn a broken system.  I believe a lot of people have recognised that the system is broken. Trump and his ilk are able to exploit it for more power and money. Most major party politicians are content to keep the gravy train going. 

With all due respect to those of you over about 70, I don’t think people over 70 should be in high pressure jobs like President , speaker of the House or the Supreme Court. Certainly a role as advisors and consultants.

Hi Nigel,

I'm with you on this.  However, it is NOT PC.

Jerry Baumchen

[wmw999 2,475]

52 minutes ago, nigel99 said:

Trump and his ilk are able to exploit it for more power and money. Most major party politicians are content to keep the gravy train going. 

With all due respect to those of you over about 70, I don’t think people over 70 should be in high pressure jobs like President , speaker of the House or the Supreme Court. Certainly a role as advisors and consultants.

I'm with you 100% on this. Even if someone is up to it, we're not part of the future, we're part of the past.

Wendy P.

[JoeWeber 2,760]

10 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

I don’t think people over 70 should be in high pressure jobs like President , speaker of the House or the Supreme Court.

But should they eat Aussie Meat Pies daily? Next you'll be saying no 70 year old DZO's. No disrespect but how old are you?

Edited March 1 by JoeWeber

[nigel99 521]

14 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

But should they eat Aussie Meat Pies daily? Next you'll be saying no 70 year old DZO's. No disrespect but how old are you?

I’m 50. My grandfather was a caretaker at a retirement village and said the hardest thing to do was taking care of keys away from people who were no longer competent to drive. He voluntarily stopped driving at 65 or 70 and switched to taxis and public transport.

I’ve got no doubt that many people are capable of working into their 70s and 80s. But in the same way they aren’t going to be pro sportsmen, or frontline military there are certain jobs that require a degree of energy and health that we lose with age. 

As far as dzo’s not an issue, but I’m not sending a loved one up with a 70 year old TI.

[JoeWeber 2,760]

1 hour ago, nigel99 said:

I’m 50. My grandfather was a caretaker at a retirement village and said the hardest thing to do was taking care of keys away from people who were no longer competent to drive. He voluntarily stopped driving at 65 or 70 and switched to taxis and public transport.

I’ve got no doubt that many people are capable of working into their 70s and 80s. But in the same way they aren’t going to be pro sportsmen, or frontline military there are certain jobs that require a degree of energy and health that we lose with age. 

As far as dzo’s not an issue, but I’m not sending a loved one up with a 70 year old TI.

Sonny, you need to lower your horns and work with your own current experience not your dads retirement home experience. I say that as someone who told my dad he couldn't fly my airplanes anymore until he got a BFR when he was 75.  I say that as someone who needed to step in and say that a good jumper could jump his new 96 when he was 75 and consensus was he was too old. Maybe in another decade or so you can make some similar judgements and be right but not now. 50 is young and to you 70 is ancient. I've been in both sets of shoes. You don't know what you can not know.

[JoeWeber 2,760]

2 hours ago, wmw999 said:

I'm with you 100% on this. Even if someone is up to it, we're not part of the future, we're part of the past.

Wendy P.

Back to serious, you are Xi Ping, you invade Taiwan ASAP. You tell Trump, hey, we're buds but we cannot buy US treasuries and support the buck while at the same time fighting you. So, can we work together?

[brokenwing 2]

4 hours ago, wmw999 said:

I'm with you 100% on this. Even if someone is up to it, we're not part of the future, we're part of the past.

Wendy P.

also concur on that.  there needs to be changes to the constitution for mandatory retirement at 70 for all offices regardless of competency.  those people no longer have a clear concept of future, their concerns are of the of the immediate for self fulfillment, and have an interest only with how they will be remembered (wanting to be famous which they will not be). 

 

btw i'm 72; 42 years in the DC region but left the game in 2012

[JoeWeber 2,760]

20 minutes ago, brokenwing said:

also concur on that.  there needs to be changes to the constitution for mandatory retirement at 70 for all offices regardless of competency.  those people no longer have a clear concept of future, their concerns are of the of the immediate for self fulfillment, and have an interest only with how they will be remembered (wanting to be famous which they will not be). 

 

btw i'm 72; 42 years in the DC region but left the game in 2012

Left what game?

[jakee 1,528]

5 hours ago, nigel99 said:

While I disagree with your view of Harris, she is not the person who can overturn a broken system.  I believe a lot of people have recognised that the system is broken. Trump and his ilk are able to exploit it for more power and money. Most major party politicians are content to keep the gravy train going. 

I'm sorry but I think you're falling into the trap laid by extremist politicians of setting impossible standards for anyone else to follow. The system isn't broken. The system is not robust enough to stand up to malicious actors like Trump, but it can't ever be, really. There will always be a case that if you elect enough people who don't care about the law, the leadership will be above the law. But the answer to this is literally as simple as voting for grown ups with some sense of public service. That's all you need.

Now ideally (IMO) this person would be willing to have serious conversations about the consequences of 40 years of increasingly pure neo-liberal economic policies and the need for imposition of responsibility for content onto the tech/media giants... but that's a wishlist for another day when the choice is between two grownups who haven't stated their intent to destroy the system. When the choice is between one normal person and one wrecking ball, under the normal person everything will work just fine. Maybe a little better, maybe a little worse, but absolutely fine. Handwringing about exactly who is the perfect person to oppose the wrecking ball has them laughing all the way to the ballot box.

 

You'll see this template from the extremists time and time again - create a problem and force the conversation to happen on their terms that the problem now independently exists and who can give you a perfect plan to solve it.... when the real answer is that we just need to stop enabling them. One of the best examples is election security in the US. The extremists lied and lied and lied about utterly absurd schemes - dead Venezuelan presidents hacking in via satellite FFS - then pushed through sweeping reforms to weaken what was in fact an extremely robust system on the basis that too many people had lost faith in election security. Again in that case anyone engaging in a conversation with those people about how the system can be better protected has already lost because they have accepted the fraudulent worldview.