How many of each line. 9 cell Silhouette

[TracyS 0]

I'm pretty new to skydiving and still VERY wet behind the ears and I know this is something I should know but I'm having some difficulty with.
I know the lines on a canopy go from front to rear in A, B, C, D order.

On a 9 cell PD Silhouette, How many of each line ( A, B, C, D ) are there?

Which are the lines that are attached to the stabilizers?

I'm trying to learn more about canopies so that I understand the equipment better.
Thanks for any help someone can provide.

Canopies must all be female. If I treat mine good, she gives me a good ride. If I slap her in the bag, she will dump me like a turd.

Courtesy of PRE7117, love that line.

[TracyS 0]

Allow me to clarify my question a little further.

I know there are 10 "A" lines.

For the "B, C & D" lines; are there 10 each of those WITH a stabilizer line coming off each of the end cell lines OR are the stabilizer lines also considered B, C & D lines making a total of 12 each, B, C & D?

What I'm trying to do is label the lines for the purposes of practicing my packing.

Canopies must all be female. If I treat mine good, she gives me a good ride. If I slap her in the bag, she will dump me like a turd.

Courtesy of PRE7117, love that line.

[Southern_Man 0]

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Allow me to clarify my question a little further.

I know there are 10 "A" lines.

For the "B, C & D" lines; are there 10 each of those WITH a stabilizer line coming off each of the end cell lines OR are the stabilizer lines also considered B, C & D lines making a total of 12 each, B, C & D?

What I'm trying to do is label the lines for the purposes of practicing my packing.

There are 10 lines in each group on a 9 cell canopy. That includes one stabilizer line on each side.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[Rigger226 0]

The outside A,B,C,D lines (A-D 1&10) are the ones that connect to your stabilizers.

[TracyS 0]

So, if I understand correctly, when I am separating the line groups while packing; I should have 5 lines to each group when flaking the lines?

Canopies must all be female. If I treat mine good, she gives me a good ride. If I slap her in the bag, she will dump me like a turd.

Courtesy of PRE7117, love that line.

[Southern_Man 0]

Yes

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[TracyS 0]

Thank you both for your replies. I really want to learn to properly pack my canopy so that I can be self sufficient when the packers are swamped with more than they can keep up with.
I think that the more I learn about my rig, the better it is for me as a skydiver.
I appreciate you sharing your knowledge.

Canopies must all be female. If I treat mine good, she gives me a good ride. If I slap her in the bag, she will dump me like a turd.

Courtesy of PRE7117, love that line.

[yoink 321]

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There are 10 lines in each group on a 9 cell canopy. That includes one stabilizer line on each side.

Not so.

some ellipticals like a Stilletto only have 3 D attachment points on each side if I remember correctly.


Tracy - lay your canopy out on it's topskin and then COUNT the number of attachment points on one side - That's the right number. For a Sabre it's 4, 4, 4, 4. For a Stilletto it's 4, 4, 4, 3. - I work front to back because that's how I pack... some folks do it differently. Now just remember that sequence.

Anything that attaches to an edge is either a stabiliser or a brake line and (IMO) can be discounted because they're dealt with differently during the packing sequence.

[Southern_Man 0]

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There are 10 lines in each group on a 9 cell canopy. That includes one stabilizer line on each side.

Not so.

some ellipticals like a Stilletto only have 3 D attachment points on each side if I remember correctly.


Tracy - lay your canopy out on it's topskin and then COUNT the number of attachment points on one side - That's the right number. For a Sabre it's 4, 4, 4, 4. For a Stilletto it's 4, 4, 4, 3. - I work front to back because that's how I pack... some folks do it differently. Now just remember that sequence.

Anything that attaches to an edge is either a stabiliser or a brake line and (IMO) can be discounted because they're dealt with differently during the packing sequence.

He has a silhouette and is just learning to pack. Hopefully he won't be dealing w/ an elliptical and the less-standard line grouping for a while.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[TracyS 0]

Yoink,

Thanks for your response. Southern_Man is correct that my question was specific to the Silhouette as that is the canopy that I have.
Hopefully, by the time I move to other canopies, I'll have a better understanding of the construction of different types of canopies and the process of packing.
I don't think that will be any time soon as I'm in no hurry to downsize beyond my experience or skill level.

Canopies must all be female. If I treat mine good, she gives me a good ride. If I slap her in the bag, she will dump me like a turd.

Courtesy of PRE7117, love that line.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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So, if I understand correctly, when I am separating the line groups while packing; I should have 5 lines to each group when flaking the lines?

Well, you are actually flaking the fabric, not he lines.
With a 9 cell, you will have 4 "flakes" for each line group. Which give you 5 lines.

And that's the line count up by the canopy. Don't forget that there are cascades where the lines converge. This gives a lower count at the riser connection. (slinks or links).

The best way to see this is to hang your canopy up. A lot of DZs have an "inspection rack" which is nothing more than a pipe with a bunch of clamps on it. You hang the canopy by the tail and you can get a good look at the fabric and lines. It's a good way to see how the lines are set up.

Or you could lay it on it's side and do a line check.

Ask your friendly local rigger about this. If you wait until after the jumping is done for the day (or pick a day that's weathered out), and say "Here, have a beer. Can you show me how to do a line check?"
There's a pretty good chance you will learn how.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[TracyS 0]

Thanks, will do.

Canopies must all be female. If I treat mine good, she gives me a good ride. If I slap her in the bag, she will dump me like a turd.

Courtesy of PRE7117, love that line.

[yoink 321]

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He has a silhouette and is just learning to pack. Hopefully he won't be dealing w/ an elliptical and the less-standard line grouping for a while.

I agree!

However, you said "There are 10 lines in each group on a 9 cell canopy"...

not 'There are 10 lines in each group on your Silhouette'. Not all 9-cells have 10 lines in each group - other people than the OP may read this post in the future... No point in putting out incorrect information!

In fact, when I was taught to pack, the stabilizers weren't counted as part of any line group - confused the hell out of me for a second when I read your post at first!

[fluffyduckie 6]

Check out the Performance Designs website. They have info about each canopy they produce. Also, on You Tube, the PD page has excellent packing videos, including "over the shoulder" views, so you can have the same point of view.

"I love when humans fly,"

[Quagmirian 40]

Not sure if this is any help.

[riggerrob 643]

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Not sure if this is any help.

..............................................................................

Thanks,

That is the Silhouette line trim chart we were looking for.

[TracyS 0]

Thanks to all of you for the info. The videos on PD's website are certainly helpful. I found the videos where it showed the view from over the shoulder. Good stuff. I was able to get my best pack job yet after having watched those videos. Now I just need repetition, LOTS OF REPETITION, to get better at it.

The chart, good info to help me visualize the canopy layout better, certainly got my analytical brain working to visualize the line length info.
While I'm not certain what all of the info in the first column ( LST, UST, etc... ) means, does help me better visualize the line layout. If I understand correctly, using a 230 sq ft canopy as an example; the chart is telling me that the A1 line is 159 3/4" long and that the B1 line, A1-B1, is 3" shorter than A1.
The C1 line, A1-C1, 10 3/4" shorter than A1, etc, etc, etc...

This seems to indicate to me that the line lengths would establish a "nose up" trim, since the line are getting progressively shorter as they move to the rear, unless the risers or the canopy design itself also play a part in establishing the trim.

Interesting info here and probably more than I need to delve too deeply into for the purposes of packing. Glad to have it to use as a reference to check my lines to see if they are out of trim.

Canopies must all be female. If I treat mine good, she gives me a good ride. If I slap her in the bag, she will dump me like a turd.

Courtesy of PRE7117, love that line.

[Quagmirian 40]

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While I'm not certain what all of the info in the first column ( LST, UST, etc... ) means, does help me better visualize the line layout. If I understand correctly, using a 230 sq ft canopy as an example; the chart is telling me that the A1 line is 159 3/4" long and that the B1 line, A1-B1, is 3" shorter than A1.
The C1 line, A1-C1, 10 3/4" shorter than A1, etc, etc, etc...

This seems to indicate to me that the line lengths would establish a "nose up" trim, since the line are getting progressively shorter as they move to the rear, unless the risers or the canopy design itself also play a part in establishing the trim.

It's the other way round. The lines get longer towards the tail, giving the canopy a nose-down trim. Don't worry about getting confused about this, it'll be easy to see when pro-packing.

[TracyS 0]

Quagmirian,

Thanks, that's how I "thought" it should be but the info in the first column seemed to contradict what I was thinking.
I took the A1-B1, A1-C1, A1-D1, etc... too literally and read them as math formulas.

The "nose high" interpretation went against everything that makes sense.

Canopies must all be female. If I treat mine good, she gives me a good ride. If I slap her in the bag, she will dump me like a turd.

Courtesy of PRE7117, love that line.

[JohnMitchell 16]

If you're Pro Packing (the standing up way most people use) I have a tip that really helps me out. When I flake my canopy nose at the beginning, I put the left and right lines on separate shoulders with my head in the middle and the slider in front of me, at the top of the lines/base of the canopy.

Flake the nose as you usually do and stretch the canopy. Then, with the nose between your knees, grab the back edge of the slider, farthest away from you, and pull it outward away from you. Peer down past the front edge of the slider and you'll see the bottom of your canopy split left and right and all the line groups separated from front to rear. Reach in with your other hand and flake the cloth between the line groups towards the outside. After that you may put both line groups over one shoulder, flake your slider and tail, wrap it up and you're ready to lay it down.

I came up with the idea of splitting the line groups and using the slider as a tool when I first started pro packing and was getting lost in the canopy while flaking. It makes it so fast and easy I feel like I'm cheating. I've taught a few others to do it this way. I'm not sure why more people don't do it.

[TracyS 0]

JohnMitchell,

Thanks for the tip, I'll give it a try. I do have a question. Do you truly mean that your LEFT and RIGHT lines are on separate shoulders or is it your FRONT and REAR lines?
The reason I'm asking is that it seems that having the LEFT and RIGHT lines on separate shoulders would make flaking the nose end up wrong because the nose would still be facing you and not turned a 1/4 turn to get it to one side.
I'm not questioning your technique, just trying to be sure I understand what you are describing correctly.

I've set a goal to open and repack my main everyday until next weekend when I'll be jumping again. Like any other task, repetition will build the skill. I'm only going to open and repack it once a day. That way, I don't allow myself to get frustrated with it.
I do ok flaking between A & B and between B & C. It gets kind of wonky when I try to flake between C & D. It just seems like I struggle to reach the fabric and get it to flake without messing up everything I've already done.
Then it starts to go to hell in a hand basket when I start folding the canopy prior to putting it into the D-bag.
After watching the videos on PD's website, things went smoother and I did have a better pack job last night than I had been having.
So, practice, practice, practice is my mantra until next weekend.

Canopies must all be female. If I treat mine good, she gives me a good ride. If I slap her in the bag, she will dump me like a turd.

Courtesy of PRE7117, love that line.

[JohnMitchell 16]

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Thanks for the tip, I'll give it a try. I do have a question. Do you truly mean that your LEFT and RIGHT lines are on separate shoulders or is it your FRONT and REAR lines?
The reason I'm asking is that it seems that having the LEFT and RIGHT lines on separate shoulders would make flaking the nose end up wrong because the nose would still be facing you and not turned a 1/4 turn to get it to one side.

Left and right lines split. Yes, the nose is against your body. Left hand grabs all the lines together in front of you, right hand pulls the canopy 90 degrees right to flake the nose. After you flake, you make that big sweeping PULL to stretch out the canopy from nose to tail. Then tuck the nose between your legs to control it, release the lines from the left hand, pull the back edge of the slider away from you with the left hand, reach in and flake with the right hand. It's magic.

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I've set a goal to open and repack my main everyday until next weekend when I'll be jumping again. Like any other task, repetition will build the skill. I'm only going to open and repack it once a day. That way, I don't allow myself to get frustrated with it.
I do ok flaking between A & B and between B & C. It gets kind of wonky when I try to flake between C & D. It just seems like I struggle to reach the fabric and get it to flake without messing up everything I've already done.

It doesn't have to be perfect. Trust me on this one. Lines tight and up the middle, cloth flaked to the outside. That's the basic rule of packing ANY parachute of any shape and size.

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Then it starts to go to hell in a hand basket when I start folding the canopy prior to putting it into the D-bag.

When you bring the tail around and roll the "cocoon" shut, roll it quite a bit, put the roll between your knees again and squeeze some of the air out while you're still standing up. Then grab the rolled tail with your left hand while the right controls the top of the line where the slider is. Lay down gently.

Hell, I need to just make a packing video to show you what I mean. I'm not a professional packer, but I've watched a few and have a few tricks.

[yoink 321]

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It doesn't have to be perfect. Trust me on this one. Lines tight and up the middle, cloth flaked to the outside. That's the basic rule of packing ANY parachute of any shape and size.



and slider hard against the stops.

[TracyS 0]

JohnMitchell & Yoink,

Thanks to you and everyone else that has responded to my questions with such positive supporting answers. I was kind of reluctant to even post the question with some of the nasty replies that I see posted by the old timers with a billion jumps who seem to have forgotten what it's like to be new at this.
Sometimes people forget what it's like to be new and inexperienced at something and yet enthusiastic and wanting to "play with the big kids"
You've all been great with sharing your knowledge.

Canopies must all be female. If I treat mine good, she gives me a good ride. If I slap her in the bag, she will dump me like a turd.

Courtesy of PRE7117, love that line.

[TracyS 0]

By the way JohnMitchell, I'd love to see a video showing the technique and tips you're describing.

No, seriously, I haven't seen a clicky yet. Have you started?

I'm not gettin any younger you know.

Just sayin ..... might be helpful to myself and other inexperienced jumpers out there.

Canopies must all be female. If I treat mine good, she gives me a good ride. If I slap her in the bag, she will dump me like a turd.

Courtesy of PRE7117, love that line.