Mandatory AAD in the US ?

[airtwardo 7]

Should of just dealt with it there. Bringing in the Marines , ect. IMO was abit too much... They were on there own time. Kinda fucked if you ask me.

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No...there were on HIS time, on HIS property...jumping recklessly from HIS airplane.

Fuck those guys

Sink your life saving plus a million or so into a business...then have some dipshits pull a fraud on ya and put the whole thing in jeopardy.

Come on back and lemme know how 'kinda fucked' YOUR response was.

...Heck, the DZO there in the 80's use to run assholes off the property with a shotgun!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[JohnSherman 1]

First of all I am Pro AAD, but not yet, they arn't ready.

If a DZ required me to have an AAD I would ask them to sign a paper accepting all responsibility for my life due to any problems with the AAD.

How can a DZ require you to equip a Certificated Reserve with a Non-Certificated device that might fowl that device?

[piisfish 140]

John, honest question, as I don't have the manuals etc... Aren't AAD's mandatory on the Racer Tandem ?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[ChrisD 0]

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John, honest question, as I don't have the manuals etc... Aren't AAD's mandatory on the Racer Tandem ?

C

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[Andy9o8 2]

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How can a DZ require you to equip a Certificated Reserve with a Non-Certificated device that might fowl that device?

Sounds chicken to me.

[JohnSherman 1]

I have a waiver for AAD's on the Tandem.
I got it based upon the same arguement.

[SStewart 13]

Wow, that is very interesting! I honestly did not know that AAD's are not certificated, I just assumed they were. During all my discussions with DeWolf and other instructors at Daves courses I don't remember this subject ever being addressed.

By that arguement alone they should not even be legal to use at all by anyone until they become certificated.

No?

Onward and Upward!

[JerryBaumchen 1,372]

Hi Scott,

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until they become certificated.

What would someone certificate them to?

There is no standard for any type of certification for any AAD that I know of.

The FAA sure does not have any certification procedure to use.

JerryBaumchen

PS) About 1968 when Strong was getting his TSO certification for his StyleMaster rig, he teamed up with Steve Snyder and they got the Sentinel handle certificated at that time. I am thinking it might have been via a PMA and not a TSO. Until then all Sentinels were not certificated; but things were different in those days.

[JohnSherman 1]

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What would someone certificate them to?

There is no standard for any type of certification for any AAD that I know of.

The AAd manufacturers were invited to write a standard for AAD's. They could not do it. They had many excuses why it couldn't be done.

They need motivation. What motivation do they have now? The world wide market is shared by basically 2 manufacturers. They don't need certification, why spend the time and money on something which will only complicate their lives.

This is not to say they arn't doing a fine job, but why change?

My personal position is that they should do away with cutters and come up with a miniture "pusher"which has no posibility of "interfering with the normal operation of".
Cutters can and have interfered with the normal operation of some rigs.

I believe in AAD's but we need improvement.

[SStewart 13]

Hi Jerry,

John has stated that he was able to get a waiver because an AAD is a non-certificated device going into a certificated system if I read that correctly.

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There is no standard for any type of certification for any AAD that I know of.

Maybe there should be?

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The FAA sure does not have any certification procedure to use.

Then how can it be required or even legal to use one if the device could possibly cause a certificated system to fail?

John said he has a waiver to not use them in his system based on this arguement. It would seem you would actually need a waiver to use one since it has no certification.

Hmmm?

Onward and Upward!

[SStewart 13]

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My personal position is that they should do away with cutters and come up with a miniture "pusher"which has no posibility of "interfering with the normal operation of".

You mean like a pin-puller on the old fxc except a "pusher" instead?

Onward and Upward!

[JerryBaumchen 1,372]

Hi Scott,

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John has stated that he was able to get a waiver

That is for him to speak to, not me.

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Maybe there should be?

IMO I'll be pushing daisies before we see one. And any standard would probably have to be very, very complicated; unless one were to totally disregard the software aspect of the unit.

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Then how can it be required or even legal to use one if the device could possibly cause a certificated system to fail?

I'll bet $5 to a stale donut that you have heard Ralph say, 'My airplane, my rules,' more than once.

The FAA ( to the best of my knowledge ) does not require them. They only say something to the effect that if you have one, it must be maintained per the mfrs instructions.

It is a dilemma, and I do not have the answer.

JerryBaumchen

PS) We are now 22 yrs into the age of the electronic AAD and the default design is a loop cutter. Want to come up with a better mousetrap? The world, money & women await you.

[JohnSherman 1]

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PS) We are now 22 yrs into the age of the electronic AAD and the default design is a loop cutter. Want to come up with a better mousetrap? The world, money & women await you.

The Argus Cutter has a hole in the end of it. The piston in shapped like an arc punch, concave in the middle. This configuration can be used for a pin pusher, wasn't much good as a cutter. While the stroke is about .5 inches it has enough power to drive the pin out, I have videos. I would want a stroke of at least 1 inch. It would push against an extra pin on the ripcord which is rotated in the opposite direction of the existing pin, still pointing down.
This puts all of the mechanism on the outside of the container. A bracket to hold the pusher would be no problem.

[JerryBaumchen 1,372]

Hi John,

That looks like a project for these folks:

http://www.jcometals.com/



JerryBaumchen

[JohnSherman 1]

They have been working on it.
However, ther just isn't enough time or money to make regular, steady progress.
They know how but can't get to it what with all of the other projects.
I do know one thing. Cutters have failed and can't be conceptually trusted.
I would be happy to forward all I know about cutters/pushers to anyone who would like to take the project forward.

[airtwardo 7]

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They have been working on it.
However, ther just isn't enough time or money to make regular, steady progress.
They know how but can't get to it what with all of the other projects.
I do know one thing. Cutters have failed and can't be conceptually trusted.
I would be happy to forward all I know about cutters/pushers to anyone who would like to take the project forward.

I always wonder if the old FXC concept of a spring 'puller' couldn't be successfully updated with modern materials & technology?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[peek 21]

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I always wonder if the old FXC concept of a spring 'puller' couldn't be successfully updated with modern materials & technology?

It could, but I believe that it would still be very bulky compared to the electrical cutters used by the AAD manufacturers right now.

The spring mechanism would need to be largish to make sure there is enough force, and assuming the spring mechanism would need to be inside the reserve container, a bulky and not so flexible mechanical cable would need to be used between them rather than a small and flexible wire cable.

It makes me appreciate the Sentinel "pin-pusher". It was pretty good for its day.

[sundevil777 102]

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PS) We are now 22 yrs into the age of the electronic AAD and the default design is a loop cutter. Want to come up with a better mousetrap? The world, money & women await you.

The Argus Cutter has a hole in the end of it. The piston in shapped like an arc punch, concave in the middle. This configuration can be used for a pin pusher, wasn't much good as a cutter. While the stroke is about .5 inches it has enough power to drive the pin out, I have videos. I would want a stroke of at least 1 inch. It would push against an extra pin on the ripcord which is rotated in the opposite direction of the existing pin, still pointing down.
This puts all of the mechanism on the outside of the container. A bracket to hold the pusher would be no problem.

Since ripcord pins are so easily bent, the loop cutter allows a save even if the pull forces are too high due to a bent pin. It has been noted by others that pins have been bent just from the tension on the loop, so the location of the reserve pin on the back isn't enough to prevent this.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[JohnSherman 1]

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Since ripcord pins are so easily bent, the loop cutter allows a save even if the pull forces are too high due to a bent pin. It has been noted by others that pins have been bent just from the tension on the loop, so the location of the reserve pin on the back isn't enough to prevent this.

This is not a real problem. We have tested for it and while the final design completely encloses the pin, the test conditions did not and the power was enough to drive even a bent pin out. Remember the rig must not have more than 22 pounds pull force and if the pin is bent you shouldn't be jumping it.

When was the last time you heard about a no pull because of a bent pin in a nylon loop?

[df8m1 24]

I have seen some videos from Aviacom using the cutter piston to push out an extra pin on the rip cord.

I have also seen a patent that uses a thruster linked to the pin that does the same thing, I do not recall how old it was.

I am currently designing a cutter for my military AADs and was contacted my Aviacom about the possibility of supplying cutters to the Argus AADs in the field so they could be put back into service.

Traditionally, AAD manufacturers have relied on standard cutter designs provided by a cutter company, but the cutters were designed to cut different material that the 300lb Spectra, let alone packed up in a container, so a cutter that performs well in the open tends to fail in this application, the good news is the pinched loop failure can be reproduced, so I will be able to put my cutter in the same configuration and see how it does.

I think there is a definite advantage to a cutter that is designed specifically for parachute deployment.

Tandem rigs are big enough and not concerned about appearance, so there might be a chance that a puller or pusher could be accepted, but with the smaller rigs, even a cutter has an effect on the look of a pack job.

IMOP the reserve pins are too week, and I would feel better with a pin the size of what is used on the main.

Everything has it’s drawbacks.

[sundevil777 102]

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Since ripcord pins are so easily bent, the loop cutter allows a save even if the pull forces are too high due to a bent pin. It has been noted by others that pins have been bent just from the tension on the loop, so the location of the reserve pin on the back isn't enough to prevent this.

This is not a real problem. We have tested for it and while the final design completely encloses the pin, the test conditions did not and the power was enough to drive even a bent pin out. Remember the rig must not have more than 22 pounds pull force and if the pin is bent you shouldn't be jumping it.

When was the last time you heard about a no pull because of a bent pin in a nylon loop?

Bad cutter designs are a problem, and it seems like a problem for which the solution is well established and proven.

I definitely remember hearing about bent pins that could not have been pulled when needed, but fortunately the bent pin was noticed.

We should always notice a bent pin, but the reality is different.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[ChrisD 0]

Mr. Shermans vid on pin strength is top notch and worthy of viewing!


However a couple of questions have yet to be answererd???

Why arn't the AAD cutters located near the cypres washer?

AND should we be moving to a curved reserve pin, considering the increasing prevelance of spectra ripcords, And skyhook/ rsl type multiple connections on the reserve pin, that can pull from any direction?
C

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[billvon 3,006]

>When was the last time you heard about a no pull because of a bent pin in a nylon loop?

About eight years ago in a Racer. Another rigger "helped out" the jumper by tightening down the pop top so it looked better. Both pins were bent and the pull force was well over 50 pounds. Neither of us could get the handle out while wearing the rig.

[piisfish 140]

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Mr. Shermans vid on pin strength is top notch and worthy of viewing!

where is taht video, I am interested in seeing it

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Why arn't the AAD cutters located near the cypres washer?

some are very close to the CYPRES disc. Some others are further away. Some even have been changed due to some sloppy riggers who packed rigs with excessively long loops which caused malfunctions of reserve closing flaps

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Southern_Man 0]

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Some even have been changed due to some sloppy riggers who packed rigs with excessively long loops which caused malfunctions of reserve closing flaps

Can you elaborate on this?

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"