chop it or not?

[newguy1 0]

i was jumping my second pack job and had my first malfunction. i was jumping a sabre 2 210, i had deployed at 4000 when canopy was overhead only about 2/3 was inflated and i was in a right spin. at first i whent to my handles, but realizing how much altitude i still had i decied to try and correct the problem. with further investigation i found that my right toggle was tangled. it when inbetween the riser and the brake line above the ring and jamed the line. i was able to get the line free and pump the brakes to inflate the rest of the canopy. was this the correct thing to do or should have cut away?

[sundevil777 102]

At what altitude did you get it straightened?

If you are very aware of your altitude, you have choices.

If you were in doubt, you shouldn't even take the time to check your altitude, go to your handles.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[panzwami 0]

how high were you when you got the canopy fully open and flying properly?

If you were above your hard deck, then I don't see a problem with this. If you were below your hard deck, I think you should have chopped.

You said you were at 4k when you opened (which I'm assuming is above your hard deck), so you have some time to try and work the problem. But, if you reach your hard deck and still don't have a LANDABLE canopy, STOP screwing with it and start peeling and pulling.

[NWFlyer 2]

At what altitude did you have the problem corrected? I think as long as that altitude is above your personal decision altitude, you have no reason to second guess your decision.

You had what turned out to be a fixable malfunction. If you had the problem fixed ABOVE your decision altitude, you did good. If you were below that altitude by the time you had it fixed... that's where you might want to do some second-guessing. People have mucked around trying to fix mains all the way into the ground. But if you maintain altitude awareness (and especially the awareness that a partially-inflated canopy in a slight spin is going to be descending faster) there's no harm in trying to see if it's fixable.

Have you talked to a rigger to discuss what might have caused your toggle to get tangled? That, too, will be a great lesson to take away from this.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[newguy1 0]

i was at 3200-3000 when i was square and steerable. 500 feet above my decision alt. i was just asking to make sure that my problem couldn't have created more then i couldn't handle. i know that half the people you talk to about this kind of stuff are pro try and fix the problem and some are pro chop it. i guess it all personall pref. long as you are still hear when it's overwith.

[NWFlyer 2]

Quote

i was at 3200-3000 when i was square and steerable. 500 feet above my decision alt.

There's your answer. You were able to correct the problem prior to your decision altitude. And, it appears you were aware of your altitude, which is a very good thing (working on trying to fix a canopy can be a very distracting thing).

Quote

i guess it all personall pref. long as you are still hear when it's overwith.

Not necessarily. Just because you walked away doesn't always mean that you made the right decision (I'm not saying that's the case here, but you will most definitely hear of situations where the person walked away despite making one or more decisions that probably weren't the best choice of the options available.)

[kenneth21441 0]

You made a good decision.

If you had deployed at 2500 feet you would not have had time to think and react. It would mor should have been to cut away of course.

I usually pull at or above 3000 feet to give me that extra time to clear any problems that could accure it sure is less of free fall time but I can make that up for sure plus it gives me time to check out the view.

You did the right thing and never second guess yourself. After all these years I still practice me malfuction review on the ride of on a majority of my jumps still......


Just enjoy the ride

Just my two cents..
tahnks Ken..

Kenneth Potter
FAA Senior Parachute Rigger
Tactical Delivery Instructor (Jeddah, KSA)
FFL Gunsmith

[JeepDiver 0]

you did good!

A question. How fast was the spin under those conditions?

I'm curious what your wing loading is with a 210

[JeffSkydiver 0]

A practice I developed awhile back to try not to lose altitude awareness while dealing with a line twist etc., is as soon as I pull I begin counting, "thousand one, thousand two, etc." I do NOT stop counting until I have a landable canopy overhead. You may be tempted to stop counting when you feel the "pop" of the canopy opening or while inspecting the canopy or reaching for your toggles. So let me repeat, do NOT stop counting until you are sure you are not going to chop it.

In July, my line twist had me spinning through "thouand 5." By "thousand 7" I was on my back and chopped. (I have a Spectre, so around 4 is normal). I had a brake fire. I was under reserve at 2800 and was saying thousand 10 I think as I reached for my reserve toggles.

How long you count before you chop depends on speed of mal, I guess. I use it to make sure I look at alti.

So... begin the count at pull and don't stop until you have a landable main or chop.

my $.02

jt

*

Let's all do this safe enough that we can still do this in our 90's.

[Scrumpot 1]

I don't think I fully understand how this "counting method" can possibly work, or be counted upon (slight pun intended ) in all situations, absent keeping yourself ALSO aware of other "queu's" (your altimeter, your eye-ball of the ground, surrounding known geographic features, etc.), and relying on this as a "crutch" (as it sounds to me you MAY be doing) I would think, COULD become even dangerous, if you remained dependent (and especially on ONLY) that. Not all malfunctions are created equal! A line-over collapsing 4 of your 9 right-side cells, for instance (or similar "spinning" malfunction) may have a much FASTER decent rate (eating up alt.) than say several line twists. - No?

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[newguy1 0]

i wiegh 180. so my exact wing loading im not sure? the spin was fast enough to push me into my harness pretty good. i didnt loose track of my alt. while corecting for the reason that this is the only thing that simply scares the shit out of me! not ashamed to admit it either, really do not want to have to use my reserve.

[skydiverbry 0]

For what my thoughts are worth, good job and well done you allowed room for error and most inportant kept alti aware!

--------------------------------------------------
Growing old is mandatory.Growing up is optional!!

D.S.#13(Dudeist Skdiver)

[RedassSkychic 0]

Sounds like you have great altitude awareness. A useful tool to have! Good job keeping your head on straight during a high adrenaline situation.

[tbrown 26]

Quote

i was at 3200-3000 when i was square and steerable. 500 feet above my decision alt. i was just asking to make sure that my problem couldn't have created more then i couldn't handle. i know that half the people you talk to about this kind of stuff are pro try and fix the problem and some are pro chop it. i guess it all personall pref. long as you are still hear when it's overwith.

At those altitudes, you did an outstanding job, especially with only 37 jumps. You kept your wits about you, worked your problem AND stayed aware of your altitude. You can't do any better than that.

However, it isn't "personal preference" either. It's using good common sense and STAYING AWARE of altitude. If your hard deck is 2500 ft and you hadn't cleared the problem by then, you need to shift gears into Plan B, forget the toggle and grab your handles. You have to know when to cut bait and give it up and not try for "just a little bit longer", because the ground is coming up faster than you think, especially if you're focused on difficult detail work.

Students are taught to cutaway from anything that's not just perfect. You're beginning to learn from your own experience that there's a whole range of problems, large and small, with variable factors like altitude. I think you did just great, but forget the personal preference, it's more like common sense & watch that altitude. Well done !

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !