DZO's: Lower limit on canopy size?

[kallend 2,026]

When asked how much his yacht cost, J.P. Morgan replied: "If you have to ask, you can't afford it,"

Your question reminds me of that. If you have to ask where the line is, you probably should not be anywhere near it.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[YvonneWiggers 0]

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Don't be an idiot, staying on the conservative side can never hurt you.

i have to disagree, thats the funny thing about skydiving, you can get hurt on either side

Yes, you can get hurt either way, but like I said, you won't get hurt from staying on the conservative side. I've never heard of an incident that would be prevented had the jumper been less conservative.

"So I jump out, look up, and think 'Oh SHIT!...

It's PINK!!!'"
- army guy after his first staticline jump

[theonlyski 8]

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Don't be an idiot, staying on the conservative side can never hurt you.

i have to disagree, thats the funny thing about skydiving, you can get hurt on either side

Yes, you can get hurt either way, but like I said, you won't get hurt from staying on the conservative side. I've never heard of an incident that would be prevented had the jumper been less conservative.

Jumping a big ass Navigator in winds that were a bit high for my loading on that canopy and a bad spot, I ended up landing backwards in an open field about 2 miles from the LZ.

Had I not noticed the situation when I did, I probably wouldn't have spiraled down to get to the ground before I got pushed over a large set of trees.

So, yes, you can get hurt from conservative but you are MUCH more likely to get hurt from going the other way when you're not ready for it.

I load my sport canopy at about 1.3 (Safire2 169). While I could probably easily slide right into a 149, I see no reason to.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[vanessa.potts 0]

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Here's the downsizing chart we have posted at our DZ that our staff sticks to.

http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf

Thanks; so according to that chart I'm in the 150-160 range for square footage.

So I see you jump at Spaceland; how far do they go when it comes to laying down the law? If you're new on the DZ do they actually demand to see "your papers" in a german voice, put you on a scale and unpack your main?

Or is it just if they happen to see someone face-plant in the landing area, pull them aside later and check some stuff out?

They're a very safe DZ. When you get there they'll want to see your paperwork, licenses, find out what you're jumping, and other questions to make sure you're as safe as possible. I'm not sure how rigorously they'll check you, but I've seen staff tell people they can't jump a certain canopy because of safety issues. They're as safe as possible while also allowing jumpers to grow in their canopy skills. It's best to call the DZ, talk to them, and see what all they allow.
You shouldn't want to push a DZ's limit on your first set of gear. The gear is replaceable, but you're not.
Also,

How many jumps do you have?
What have you been jumping?
What is your current wing loading?
What is your exit weight?
When you buy new gear what will your new wing loading be?
Have you taken a canopy piloting course?


This is also a helpful link. Once you can do everything on this list with the canopy you're currently on, then you may be able to downsize.
This is the downsizing check list:

http://www.dropzone.com/safety/Canopy_Control/Downsizing_Checklist_47.html

[chuckakers 425]

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Here's the downsizing chart we have posted at our DZ that our staff sticks to.

http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf

Thanks; so according to that chart I'm in the 150-160 range for square footage.

So I see you jump at Spaceland; how far do they go when it comes to laying down the law? If you're new on the DZ do they actually demand to see "your papers" in a german voice, put you on a scale and unpack your main?

Or is it just if they happen to see someone face-plant in the landing area, pull them aside later and check some stuff out?

DZ management at Spaceland drops the axe when necessary, but they don't usually have to.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=4304014;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[Krip 2]

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Here's the downsizing chart we have posted at our DZ that our staff sticks to.

http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf

Thanks; so according to that chart I'm in the 150-160 range for square footage.

So I see you jump at Spaceland; how far do they go when it comes to laying down the law? If you're new on the DZ do they actually demand to see "your papers" in a german voice, put you on a scale and unpack your main?

Or is it just if they happen to see someone face-plant in the landing area, pull them aside later and check some stuff out?

They're a very safe DZ. When you get there they'll want to see your paperwork, licenses, find out what you're jumping, and other questions to make sure you're as safe as possible. I'm not sure how rigorously they'll check you, but I've seen staff tell people they can't jump a certain canopy because of safety issues. They're as safe as possible while also allowing jumpers to grow in their canopy skills. It's best to call the DZ, talk to them, and see what all they allow.
You shouldn't want to push a DZ's limit on your first set of gear. The gear is replaceable, but you're not.
Also,

How many jumps do you have?
What have you been jumping?
What is your current wing loading?
What is your exit weight?
When you buy new gear what will your new wing loading be?
Have you taken a canopy piloting course?


This is also a helpful link. Once you can do everything on this list with the canopy you're currently on, then you may be able to downsize.
This is the downsizing check list:

http://www.dropzone.com/safety/Canopy_Control/Downsizing_Checklist_47.html

Hi V

(Sarcasm)

Paper work is sooo retro
Lying is

Dumb is in.

If the dude want to push it

Lieing is

The ground doesn't forget and push's back a lot harder.
I'm calling a troll.

One Jump Wonder

[-Joey- 0]

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The ground doesn't forget and push's back a lot harder.I'm calling a troll.

Actually by Newton's 3rd law it pushes the same
I don't see what's the big deal with me asking an honest question to gauge how the secret canopy police operate. The canopy gestapo are everywhere and it's helpful to know their tactics so you can maximize your amount of fun while minimize your risk of having it taken away.

Anyway I'd rather this just be closed as I was in a bad state of mind when starting it over a bad jumping experience.

Skydiving is serious business

[dqpacker 7]

sell you my velo 103. no need to waste time with non-xbrased shit!

[grimmie 186]

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The ground doesn't forget and push's back a lot harder.I'm calling a troll.

Actually by Newton's 3rd law it pushes the same
I don't see what's the big deal with me asking an honest question to gauge how the secret canopy police operate. The canopy gestapo are everywhere and it's helpful to know their tactics so you can maximize your amount of fun while minimize your risk of having it taken away.

Anyway I'd rather this just be closed as I was in a bad state of mind when starting it over a bad jumping experience.

Maximizing your fun. Good point. However helicopter rides are usually more fun when you can look out of the windows.

[-Joey- 0]

Okay I get it. If I downsize too quickly I'm for sure going to die. Point taken.

Skydiving is serious business

[tmccann 1]

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I was in a bad state of mind when starting it over a bad jumping experience.

Care to share?

[JohnMitchell 16]

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Okay I get it. If I downsize too quickly I'm for sure going to die. Point taken.

Not for sure. Just very likely. Has it really taken this long of a thread for you to get that point?

If the guidelines say 160, stay there and get some experience. You'll stay out of the hospital/morgue.

[MarsGirl 0]

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i have to disagree, thats the funny thing about skydiving, you can get hurt on either side

What I took this to mean is, don't get fooled into thinking that just because you make conservative choices, you can't get hurt in this sport.

I've seen many people who don't feel the need to further their canopy flying ability because they fly a conservative canopy. Increasing your knowledge and skill in canopy flight will only increase the chances of your next meeting with the ground going well.

To the OP, to experienced people in this sport your question sounds like this: What is the maximum number of bullets you can use while playing Russian roulette before someone takes the gun away from you?

edited to take out "safe". The OP never mentioned he wanted to be safe.

[DJL 235]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swiRQ20HcF0

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[yoink 321]

The point of skydiving isn't to jump as small a canopy as possible. It's not a goal you should even have in your mind. It's not a goal, period. I can't think of a single discipline where the person with the smallest canopy is the winner.

Your canopy is a tool that you pick for the job you have in mind. It's not the job itself.

Honestly - the only people who might think you're awesome for jumping a small canopy are absolute newbies, or morons you want to stay as far as possible from.


Pick a skill-based goal that you're aiming for. It may be you want to do wingsuiting in the future, or you want to get into swooping. Now come up with a progression that lets you get there.

Given we know nothing about you, I'm going to assume you're right at the beginning, so for swooping find a mentor and be honest about what you want to do. They'll teach you drills and skills that you can develop as your jump numbers grow that are appropriate for your skill level. When you've mastered (MASTERED, not just 'done a few') those then it's time to drop a canopy size and remaster them, all the while adding more experience.

You're asking questions that translate to 'I want to be as dangerous as possible, while administratively getting away with it' and that raises HUGE red flags about your entire atttitude - now that may not be your intent - communicating over a forum can easily give the wrong impression.

How about this - what do you want to achieve? Simply answer that, and we'll be able to give good advice.
Even if you say 'I want to fly the smallest possible canopy in the shortest possible time', there's an answer. (Find a kickass canopy coach and HAMMER out the jumps, but progress in stages).

[mahonie10 0]

i'll sell you my Storm 170! wait no, I love that canopy. I'm sorry

[-Joey- 0]

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How about this - what do you want to achieve? Simply answer that, and we'll be able to give good advice.
Even if you say 'I want to fly the smallest possible canopy in the shortest possible time', there's an answer. (Find a kickass canopy coach and HAMMER out the jumps, but progress in stages).

I have my sights set on swooping.

Skydiving is serious business

[blueblur 0]

Do the others and yourself a favor and give them some history on your jump history. You have said nothing about your current skill level despite numerous requests.

In every man's life he will be allotted one good woman and one good dog. That's all you get, so appreciate them while the time you have with them lasts.

- RiggerLee

[AggieDave 6]

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How about this - what do you want to achieve? Simply answer that, and we'll be able to give good advice.
Even if you say 'I want to fly the smallest possible canopy in the shortest possible time', there's an answer. (Find a kickass canopy coach and HAMMER out the jumps, but progress in stages).

I have my sights set on swooping.

Good, go to the Swooping forum and read what all the experienced swoopers have said. Also search for Sangi and read all of that disaster, since it applies here.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[loch1957 0]

You got a lot of good advice, taking it or not is your choice. Just remember if you cant control your canopy your not just putting you at risk . I'm not that good yet, I personally wouldn't want to be anywhere near another jumper who isn't competent. We all jump because its fun and we love it, hopefully others wont kill us.

Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.”

[PhreeZone 20]

Since under your other name on here you are talking about having a cutaway on student gear recently I am going to say that swooping is a long ways off and you need to start taking canopy courses as soon as possible to avoid bad habits.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[skinnay 0]

just make sure you wear a camera!

[popsjumper 2]

Right now, I think the limit is 39 sq.ft.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Krip 2]

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Okay I get it. If I downsize too quickly I'm for sure going to die. Point taken.

Joey

Don't worry be happy
You may not die when you screw upor quad (last incident a snore) is possible. Life can go on.

Even if this thread doesn't help you it may help someone elseR.

One Jump Wonder

[jf951 1]

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*snip*

I have my sights set on swooping.

-Joey- buddy ol' pal, i think i have some friends that can help you out. have you heard of SoFPiDaRF?
(School of fast progression in downsizing and radical flying)
if not you should look into them

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sofpidarf/

as long as you show up with the most chill money baller liquid sky kit on the market no one will question that Comp Velo 79 you're about to fly.

and remember
Power first
Control second
Safety third
never give up the gates
and always, ALWAYS trust your rears

Jump more, Bitch less.