Re: First reserve ride TERMINAL

[Croc 0]

My thoughts exactly. Any suggestions on gloves that would work?

"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

[thepollster 0]

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I've had two reserve rides due to pull out problems, one was my lazy fault, the other was caused by the packer

I'd say both were your lazy fault. A proper gear check can check anything that would cause a total with a closed container, and cocking the PC (assuming collapsible) before handing the rig to the packer would prevent the other. Can you explain how a packer caused a problem on your pullout?

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I like my pull outs, but they are not for everyone

Agreed.

[mr2mk1g 10]

wow that's a long bit of tape. The tape on mine is literally a fraction of that lenght. I see now why you're so worried by the design.

[JohnMitchell 16]

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I'd say both were your lazy fault. A proper gear check can check anything that would cause a total with a closed container, and cocking the PC (assuming collapsible) before handing the rig to the packer would prevent the other. Can you explain how a packer caused a problem on your pullout?

The pull out lanyard runs through a grommet on the base of the pilot chute, then to the straight closing pin. My packer had left 3-4 twists in the whole thing, locking it up solid. It's hidden after packing but you can pull it out to inspect it, so yes, both would be my fault. Cocking the pilot chute had nothing to do with it, just an unfamiliar system to a new packer.

I don't use packers much, but even if you give them a rig with the brakes undone and the pilot chute not cocked, wouldn't you expect them to double check and do what was required?

[pullnow 0]

I usually won't comment on any threads that comes across DZ.com. It is so many personal opinions and very few real facts, most of the time coming from people that should be listening, and not give out advise!
However, this time I think I will.
How can anyone that claims he has over 4,000 jumps, and many years in the sport, suggest to a guy with one year in the sport, that it's OK to pull the RSL lanyard instead of the reserve handle? Where is the logic and common sense here? To save money on a lost reserve handle?
Your life should be more important to you!
Follow the training that you received when you were still a student jumper. The training you received obviously saved you this time! I don't believe that anyone told you to do half barroll roll at pull time? Looking over your right shoulder should be it. You tried to locate your handle two times, you couldn't so you went for silver. Good job!
I've had regular ripcords, Hackey, several different Pull out systems, Freefly Puds and now I'm back to Hackey.
More importanly, prior to exit, give each other, not just a pin check, but check the handles too!
Safe Skies.

[billvon 2,998]

>Next time I won't waste time trying to get to the handle. i'll grab it
>at the lanyard.

A couple points:

1. The lanyard he is referring to is the bridle to the PC, not the RSL lanyard. You probably knew that; just making it clear to other people. (The RSL lanyard is used as a sort of "backup reserve ripcord" on some tandem rigs.)

2. The old rule from the FJC still applies - try twice, then reserve, even if you're trying for a bridle instead of the pud.

>I will chop before pulling the reserve because chances are great
>the my main will deploy as my reserve comes out.

That's your call. Make absolutely sure that your riser covers are in good shape before doing this; loose risers can entangle with your reserve and cause a reserve mal that will not clear.

[thepollster 0]

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I'd say both were your lazy fault. A proper gear check can check anything that would cause a total with a closed container, and cocking the PC (assuming collapsible) before handing the rig to the packer would prevent the other. Can you explain how a packer caused a problem on your pullout?

The pull out lanyard runs through a grommet on the base of the pilot chute, then to the straight closing pin. My packer had left 3-4 twists in the whole thing, locking it up solid. It's hidden after packing but you can pull it out to inspect it, so yes, both would be my fault. Cocking the pilot chute had nothing to do with it, just an unfamiliar system to a new packer.

I don't use packers much, but even if you give them a rig with the brakes undone and the pilot chute not cocked, wouldn't you expect them to double check and do what was required?

I've seen many packers tell the customer to stow there brakes, and not pack the canopy until that was done. In my opinion, that is fair , because there are so many variations on toggle/riser setups, the jumper will have their own opinion on how to best stow them. Also, when the jumper has a premature toggle release due to poor design, they won't blame the packer. I do expect the packer to cock the PC, but doing it yourself insures it is done, since with a pull-out you can't check it after it is packed.

I prefer to get a pull-out rig back from the packer with the lanyard fully exposed, and the grommet out. That way, I can tuck in everything exactly as I like it, and eliminates blame to the packer for something I should check anyway.

Unfortunately, many jumpers get so complacent they don't even check the main pin when picking up a rig from a packer. What can you do? The sport has truly become mainstream. I am sick of seeing people blame the packers and refuse to take any personal responsibilty.

[brianfry713 0]

Batting gloves work well. They're not too thick so you can still feel the handles and they keep your hands warm enough on most days.

palejo, my mistake, I understand your handle set up now.

BASE 1224, Senior Parachute Rigger, CPL ASEL IA, AGI, IGI
USPA Coach & UPT Tandem Instructor, PRO, Altimaster Field Support Representative

[palejo 0]

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wow that's a long bit of tape. The tape on mine is literally a fraction of that lenght. I see now why you're so worried by the design.

May be because you don't have the dinamic corners in your container. In my case it needs to be that long so when you place the handle stiffener in the bottom flap you don't pull the PC out of the pouch. When you don't have the dinamic corners the bottom flap edge seats closer to the BOC mouth so you don't need that long a tape. I did two jumps last weekend and no problem (firts time jumping after my reserve ride two weeks ago). This time I was more aware of the handle situation during the ride to altitude and before exit and had so much fun during the jump (track dive) that didn't even worry about the frigging handle. At pull time it was there.

Alejandro
B27585

[palejo 0]

Quote

I usually won't comment on any threads that comes across DZ.com. It is so many personal opinions and very few real facts, most of the time coming from people that should be listening, and not give out advise!
However, this time I think I will.
How can anyone that claims he has over 4,000 jumps, and many years in the sport, suggest to a guy with one year in the sport, that it's OK to pull the RSL lanyard instead of the reserve handle? Where is the logic and common sense here? To save money on a lost reserve handle?
Your life should be more important to you!
Follow the training that you received when you were still a student jumper. The training you received obviously saved you this time! I don't believe that anyone told you to do half barroll roll at pull time? Looking over your right shoulder should be it. You tried to locate your handle two times, you couldn't so you went for silver. Good job!
I've had regular ripcords, Hackey, several different Pull out systems, Freefly Puds and now I'm back to Hackey.
More importanly, prior to exit, give each other, not just a pin check, but check the handles too!
Safe Skies.

I think you are misunderstanding JohnMitchell's comment. He meant tape when he said lanyard. The tape that attaches the main deployment handle to the PC top. If you can not feel you hackey or soft pud just grab the tape and pull the PC out of the pouch.
About the half barrel roll I explained before what I did and it was not technically a barrel roll. I have played with this position a lot when doing solo jumps, half rotation to the right and hold it and feel comfortable doing it.

Alejandro
B27585

[freeflajankie 0]

Hi there,

Just to clarify a few things.
Even if you have the birdman corners you can still have a hackey handle.

1 option does not exclude the other one.

If you have Birdman Option you can have spandex boc, cordura BOC, freefly handle, hackey handle, monkey fist or plastic handle.
You just can't have Pull out system.

And the length of the tape in between the handle and the P/C has nothing to do with the birdman option. The one on Hookit's picture is awefully long though, it seems like the knot has loosened a little bit and gotten stretched.

We are in the process of redesigning the handle so it will suit everyone.
Since some love the design we have and some don't some want it directly on the P/C and some dont so we are trying to find a nice in between.

Ankie

Skydivers are a bunch of insensitive jerks...
And that's why I don't skydive anymore!

[palejo 0]

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Hi there,

Just to clarify a few things.
Even if you have the birdman corners you can still have a hackey handle.

1 option does not exclude the other one.

If you have Birdman Option you can have spandex boc, cordura BOC, freefly handle, hackey handle, monkey fist or plastic handle.
You just can't have Pull out system.

And the length of the tape in between the handle and the P/C has nothing to do with the birdman option. The one on Hookit's picture is awefully long though, it seems like the knot has loosened a little bit and gotten stretched.

We are in the process of redesigning the handle so it will suit everyone.
Since some love the design we have and some don't some want it directly on the P/C and some dont so we are trying to find a nice in between.

Ankie

Hi Ankie. My handle look exactly like Hookitt's (the tape is like 2 inches long) and that's the way it came when manufactured. I love the handle and want to keep it. I haven't done any mods to make it shorter just being more aware of its position before exit. My rigger suggested me to shorten the tape but if I do that then when I place the stiffener inside the bottom flap is going to pull the PC like an inch out of the pouch or if I try putting the PC completely inside the pouch is going to pull the handle's stiffener out of the bottom flap a little bit and let it a little loose. Maybe a longer stiffener will solve that contradiction that way you can keep the PC fully inserted in the pouch and even if the stiffener comes out a little bit there will be a big piece of stiffener still inserted in the flap and that will stop it from coming out loose. Just my 0.02¢ of a design idea. Meantime I'll keep the length the way it is and be more aware.
A question: In my case with the open corners with more separation from the pouch than in the regular corners option, a hackey handle (monkey fist) will still cover the distance between the pouch mouth and the bottom flap so it will cover and protect from the wind the piece of bridle that runs there?
I'm not changing to hackey but just would like to know.
Thanks for being so quick sending me the reserve handle. I was able to jump last weekend.
An again I love the design and know that nothing is foolproof.
You guys rock

Alejandro
B27585