Beverly 1 #26 November 22, 2005 Instructors tend to become more complacent about their checks which leads to accidents. I have on occassion gotten into the plane not fully kitted up after running to put on a back to back rig. I ensure that everything is done just after a 1000 ft, so I don't disrupt the take off. I am not comfy with it, or happy for that matter. I would rather the plane wait for me to get on board completely done up. tick tock tick tock The problem is that students do copy the senior jumpers and they want to look cool, not fastening things up properly. We have a Helmets on or secured to chest strap for take off to 1000ft rule and everyone has to comply. I have called jumpers back to fasten chest straps etc before they walk to boarding point and make an issue out of it. They cannot get complacent on 15 jumps. I think true friendship is under-rated Twitter: @Dreamskygirlsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #27 November 22, 2005 QuoteQuoteat about 8 K, the instructor stands up, and tightens down his leg straps. Not an additional check adjustment, this was an INITIAL adjustment, as in, he got on the plane WITHOUT FIRST adjusting his rig. Well, when you jump all day, all weekend, you tend to do this just for comfort. I fasten my leg straps, but leave them a bit loose at first. However, they're snug enough to jump in an emergency. Then at 9K or so I snug them down really tight, the way I like them in freefall. The problem is that if I did that "really tight" from the start on the ground, my legs would probably be numb from lack of circulation by the time I got to jump run. I don't really consider that a bad example, just a necessity for frequent jumpers. John, I just got back from a 4way camp... All morning in the tunnel followed by 6 back to back jumps every day for a week... I can say, not once did I think, "these leg straps are bugging me"... (now my jumpsuit rubbed some areas raw). I would imagine if 6 jumps had ZERO discomfort, that 12 would have the same. Even when I did 10 jumps a day at a boogie, I never found my legs numb... I am just a novice, but I don't agree with your post... On a tight plane (such as a fully booked otter with tandems), the one guy who always seems to tighten his straps ends up putting his ass in my neighbors face, who then leans over into me to avoid the smell, causing me to lean over, which causes a chain reaction of closing pins rubbing against the plane.... Just my two cents... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #28 November 22, 2005 QuoteI am just a novice, but I don't agree with your post... Do you think that John is lying? Are you under the impression that he's really just trying to look 'cool', but is using his story as a cover up? For all who have chimed in a said "MY harness is comfy when tight", WTF is that about? Take the guys word, HIS situation is such that he does it his way, and this will not change regardless of your, or anyone else's situation. Great, everyone knows your harness fits right. Congrats for that. John has been jumping for 25 years which means he is old (sorry John), and his situation is different than yours. For the record, the guys who put their ass in your face are doing it on purpose. You can snug your legstraps sitting on any kind of bench, sitting on the floor, kneeling, or riding right seat. I haven't boarded an AC with tight legstraps in 4000 jumps, and have yet to give anyone a close up of my ass. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #29 November 22, 2005 QuoteThat's the lamest excuse I've ever heard. You jump a Racer! Do you really expect anyone to believe it's not comfortable? Was it built for a 4'8" 85 lb. girl or something? Read it again. This time pay attention. Focus on the "really tight" part:Then at 9K or so I snug them down really tight, the way I like them in freefall. The problem is that if I did that "really tight" from the start on the ground, my legs would probably be numb from lack of circulation by the time I got to jump run. What's lame is for you (and the others here) to be telling me what is, or is not, comfortable about the way I wear my own rig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #30 November 22, 2005 QuoteBoy am I glad I don't have to worry about having a set of balls to deal with between my leg straps i thought you had a set.... ripped off some poor soul ________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #31 November 22, 2005 QuoteWhat's lame is for you (and the others here) to be telling me what is, or is not, comfortable about the way I wear my own rig. I think they're more focused on the safety issue, John. Someone not prepare to jump in a concern for everyone on board, at least those behind him. What kind of planes are you using? I've never had discomfort with a full tightened rig on a turbine, going up to 6 loads in the day, but sitting on the floor in a little 182 or 206 is a different matter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #32 November 22, 2005 we're not allowed to even get signed off to jump at the manifest table if we're not fully ready to go... and that goes for the pro's too________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #33 November 22, 2005 QuoteQuoteThat's the lamest excuse I've ever heard. You jump a Racer! Do you really expect anyone to believe it's not comfortable? Was it built for a 4'8" 85 lb. girl or something? Read it again. This time pay attention. Focus on the "really tight" part:Then at 9K or so I snug them down really tight, the way I like them in freefall. The problem is that if I did that "really tight" from the start on the ground, my legs would probably be numb from lack of circulation by the time I got to jump run. What's lame is for you (and the others here) to be telling me what is, or is not, comfortable about the way I wear my own rig. I think you missed the whole tongue in cheek aspect of the reply. Sorry if you took it seriously. Except the part about Racers being comfortable, that part was serious. For Great Deals on Gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BenediktDE 2 #34 November 23, 2005 QuoteIf your intructor smoked a big bag of weed while going to alti would you join him??? What kind of a question is this? Sure i would. Sorry, could not resist. For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #35 November 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteWhat's lame is for you (and the others here) to be telling me what is, or is not, comfortable about the way I wear my own rig. I think they're more focused on the safety issue, John. Well let's make sure we know what we're talking about here. There's comfort, and then there's safety. Smart jumpers wear their rigs with both. John posted that when he gets on the plane, he is ready to exit the plane. Good on 'im. I don't think him leaving his straps a little lose for comfort sake, and then cinching them later is the witch we're after here. I have seen some jumpers board the plane with their legs straps open to the stops, that don't bother to ajust them properly until minutes before jump run. I'd put money on the fact that they aren't getting out like that in the event of an emergency. Which means one thing to me: They are going to try and hold me up in the event of an emergency. Squirel: So which was it? Do you figure this instructor could have left the plane the way he entered it? Or was an adjustment of his gear necessary prior to exit? There is a difference. Good on you to be concerned, but please let us know. My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #36 November 23, 2005 QuoteI think they're more focused on the safety issue, John. Someone not prepare to jump in a concern for everyone on board... From my first message: I fasten my leg straps, but leave them a bit loose at first. However, they're snug enough to jump in an emergency. Then at 9K or so I snug them down really tight, the way I like them in freefall...I am prepared to jump as soon as I get on the plane. What I call "a bit loose" may be what other people consider "normal". And it's also a lot tighter than some people wear theirs, even in freefall. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
damion75 0 #37 November 24, 2005 Well as far as I am concerned, its up to qualified skydivers to make that decision for themselves - hopefully they will be smart enough to listen to the good advice and not go for the 'cool' approach. Not always the case and then someone should bring that to the attention of the DZO/CCI since it is probably syptomatic of something else which could be even more dangerous. But I think what Squirrel is trying to say (and I agree) is that the standards which an instructor should maintain, while acting as an instructor, should definitely be as high as possible, regardless of the standards that same individual applies when it is just them and they are not influencing the next generation. Set a good example is actually one of the qualities listed in the BPA instructor manual. *************** Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squirrel 0 #38 November 24, 2005 the straps were open all the way, hanging very loose. the reason this struck me so strongly was the recent tandem accident, slipping out of the "hole." could he have left the plane like this? well, i would guess that under a "normal" deloyment he would have just gotten a bruise, but what about and emgengy bail out situation? anyway, why even settle for bruises? and yes, i was simply trying to say that setting a good example is part of being an instructor. for example, my instructor told me of her base jumping adventures only AFTER i was off student status, and had a significant number of jumps, as in, when i was a bit more educated in the sport. all in all, what my point is, to mathebatically decrease your odds of injury, by following proper safety procedure, and setting a good example as an instructor. if you are an instructor that does not follow the guidelines of the safety manual, then you have no business instructing under that guideline's authority, as in certification. ________________________________ Where is Darwin when you need him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #39 November 24, 2005 Quotethe straps were open all the way, hanging very loose. the reason this struck me so strongly was the recent tandem accident, slipping out of the "hole." Thanks for the clarification. Yeah, that's very different then what John was describing... Different in the sense that this jumper IS NOT READY when sitting comfortably in the plane. If you ask me, that is unacceptable. People may flame me and say to each their own, but IMO, this is something that affects other jumpers on the load. In the event of an emergency, this instructor will be adjusting before exit, there is a good chance that this will hold others up. My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike111 0 #40 November 30, 2005 I know what you mean by too tight leg strapss - my legs always ache under canopy becuase they are too tight but I prefer it that way as I know I won't fall out. Im only a student so can't comment but Im always told I can take my helmet off after like 2k incase of an emergency bailout, and put it on at 8-9k. That seems fair becuase its too uncomfortable to wear it for 30 min ride. Should I wear it incase? probably but thats one step too far for me personally. I m kitted up in every other area so it shouldn't pose too much of a problem Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #41 November 30, 2005 QuoteShould I wear it (helmet) incase? probably but thats one step too far for me personally. I m kitted up in every other area so it shouldn't pose too much of a problem Yeah, the thing is, in the event of an emergency, you can exit without a helmet.... You really really shouldn't exit without a rig My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #42 November 30, 2005 god I hope no students saw my rig get on the plane before me two weeks ago.... it was a last minute go on the load for a memorial jump, thought the plane wasnt going and it was only two of us on a plane to 4 grand.... oh well.... sometimes people run to the plane when working eh? Cheers Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
