matthewcline 0 #1 October 22, 2012 Quoting a FSDO Inspector: "Punkin Chunkin'? Really? That has not been, and never will be, legal! I find out that is happening, the Pilot, Chunker, Facility Operator, and any on else I can attache to it, will be fined heavy! and lose any and all FAA issued licenses!" Any "truth" to this boast/Bluff? What FAR would it be in violation of? MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonstark 8 #3 October 22, 2012 Can't quote you chapter and verse but there is a prohibition on throwing anything from an aircraft. There are ways that it can be done legally though. USPA developed a checklist of things that must be considered and complied with to get permission from the FAA for this. These were developed for using the "Vladi" ball to get your Atmospheric Dolphin award by releasing the weighted ball in freefall. Skydive City has the permission as does Eloy and others. jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #4 October 22, 2012 I think ..of course..it depends. http://www.eldoks.com/municipal/_DATA/TITLE13/Chapter_13_24_MUNICIPAL_AIRPORT/13_24_110_Dropping_objects_fro.html I used to know a Budweiser distributor in east Texas that would fly over private parties and drop koozies.Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #5 October 22, 2012 Quote I think ..of course..it depends. http://www.eldoks.com/municipal/_DATA/TITLE13/Chapter_13_24_MUNICIPAL_AIRPORT/13_24_110_Dropping_objects_fro.html I used to know a Budweiser distributor in east Texas that would fly over private parties and drop koozies. Ummm? Your link above is from the "El Dorado Municipal Code" Just between you and me, it doesn't mean shit anywhere else. Is there an FAA law, USPA BSR, etc.? I'm going to a well established Pumpkin Toss next weekend. I hope this is not the end of an Age-Old Tradition? Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crash450 0 #6 October 22, 2012 I think the FARs say something to the affect that nothing can be dropped from an aircraft unless it poses no threat to people or property on the ground. Anyway, what is pumpkin chunkin (I get that it means throwing a pumpkin out,) but do you play catch with it or something? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #7 October 22, 2012 Unless the regs have changed he's full of shit. Too lazy to look it up but the reg states something to the effect that nothing can be dropped from an aircraft unless care is taken to insure people and property are not damaged on the ground. Would not be the first time a FSDO inspector had his head up his ass. I seem to remember one grounding a bunch of planes once that had those new fangled Q-tips on them because they were bent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutem 0 #8 October 22, 2012 http://www.risingup.com/fars/info/part91-15-FAR.shtml Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CarpeDiem3 0 #9 October 22, 2012 QuoteQuoting a FSDO Inspector: "Punkin Chunkin'? Really? That has not been, and never will be, legal! I find out that is happening, the Pilot, Chunker, Facility Operator, and any on else I can attache to it, will be fined heavy! and lose any and all FAA issued licenses!" Any "truth" to this boast/Bluff? What FAR would it be in violation of? Matt I think he's wrong. The only restriction is that you can't endanger people or property on the ground. So as long as you make the pumpkin jump over open ground, you should be okay. Sec. 91.15 — Dropping objects. "No pilot in command of a civil aircraft may allow any object to be dropped from that aircraft in flight that creates a hazard to persons or property. However, this section does not prohibit the dropping of any object if reasonable precautions are taken to avoid injury or damage to persons or property." The FSDO don't know shit. For christ sake, don't tell 'em in that you're going to do it, or ask permission for it. Just do it. Safely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #10 October 22, 2012 Quote (I get that it means throwing a pumpkin out,) but do you play catch with it or something? In this case... DZO parks a car in the middle of a big field. Cessna passes over(Low). You have to spot, and toss the pupkin at just the right time. The goal is to do damage to the car below. Great fun with a long standing tradition.... Sounds easier than it is. I don't believe anyone has ever even come close. But I could be wrong. Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #11 October 22, 2012 Quote Quote (I get that it means throwing a pumpkin out,) but do you play catch with it or something? In this case... DZO parks a car in the middle of a big field. Cessna passes over(Low). You have to spot, and toss the pupkin at just the right time. The goal is to do damage to the car below. Great fun with a long standing tradition.... Sounds easier than it is. I don't believe anyone has ever even come close. But I could be wrong. This may be part of the issue, if it happens on a public Airport, and not out in a filed with prior consent and "reasonable precautions" (which may be up to the Inspector to accept). MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #12 October 22, 2012 Quote Quote I think ..of course..it depends. http://www.eldoks.com/municipal/_DATA/TITLE13/Chapter_13_24_MUNICIPAL_AIRPORT/13_24_110_Dropping_objects_fro.html I used to know a Budweiser distributor in east Texas that would fly over private parties and drop koozies. Ummm? Your link above is from the "El Dorado Municipal Code" Just between you and me, it doesn't mean shit anywhere else. Is there an FAA law, USPA BSR, etc.? I'm going to a well established Pumpkin Toss next weekend. I hope this is not the end of an Age-Old Tradition? Ooops, I knew there was a FAR i pulled up the wrong item in haste. Quote Sec. 91.15 - Dropping objects. No pilot in command of a civil aircraft may allow any object to be dropped from that aircraft in flight that creates a hazard to persons or property. However, this section does not prohibit the dropping of any object if reasonable precautions are taken to avoid injury or damage to persons or property. Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,321 #13 October 22, 2012 Oh fer fuck's sake... How many flour drops go on each year around the country.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #14 October 22, 2012 Quote Oh fer fuck's sake... How many flour drops go on each year around the country. I dunno, but apparently one Punkin Chunkin' Contest has caught the Feds attention. And since we are all so loving and helpful to each other, we know we will all stand behind each other and not throw one another under the FAA bus.The question is, weather or not it is a tradition and we have been doing it for years or not, have we been CORRECT in when and how? One Inspector seems to think, NOT. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #15 October 22, 2012 Depending on how much shit you want to stir up I'd ask him to show you the reg. that keeps you from doing it. Another option is an e-mail to him and CC to his supervisor with that reg included. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #16 October 22, 2012 I was told by a reliable source that the FAA has two catch-all charges, Careless operation and Reckless operation. With these two charges they do not have to directly site an FAR, but rather just state that safe operating procedures were not followed. As for dropping things from a plane, I spent over 20 years dropping test items out of planes. Many of them because of the FAA. They stopped Bob Hover from flying; they can do just about anything they want. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robinheid 0 #17 October 22, 2012 Quote Quote Quoting a FSDO Inspector: "Punkin Chunkin'? Really? That has not been, and never will be, legal! I find out that is happening, the Pilot, Chunker, Facility Operator, and any on else I can attache to it, will be fined heavy! and lose any and all FAA issued licenses!" Any "truth" to this boast/Bluff? What FAR would it be in violation of? Matt I think he's wrong. The only restriction is that you can't endanger people or property on the ground. So as long as you make the pumpkin jump over open ground, you should be okay. Sec. 91.15 — Dropping objects. "No pilot in command of a civil aircraft may allow any object to be dropped from that aircraft in flight that creates a hazard to persons or property. However, this section does not prohibit the dropping of any object if reasonable precautions are taken to avoid injury or damage to persons or property." The FSDO don't know shit. For christ sake, don't tell 'em in that you're going to do it, or ask permission for it. Just do it. Safely. Actually, there's another way that works too. Years ago, I was working with Felix B. on a IMAX movie to be shot on a Denver street. Base jump from a building plus a helicopter flying backwards and sideways down the street to film a "calvary charge" by several cars and trucks. FAA guy issued the chopper permit, then demanded that Felix and I have USPA PRO ratings for the BASE jump, which shut the production down because Felix didn't have one. So I checked FAR 105, which specifically states that it is related to parachuting from aircraft, then called the FAA guy and left a message in which I pointed that out - and then added: "Oh, by the way, if you insist on involving the FAA in a BASE jump, you would be the very first FAA offical in 20 years to decide on your own authority that such involvement was necessary. Thanks for your help on the chopper permit. Bye!" One hour later, the location manager called and said that the FAA guy had called him in a panic, "insisting" that he had never actually demanded PRO ratings for the BASE jump and that it was all a misunderstanding and please forget that he had said anything about it... The next day, Felix and I made our jumps and completed the shoot. 44 SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #18 October 22, 2012 Cool story, but when we are talking about GA used in Skydiving on Public access airports, it seems that the FAA has the ability to Say, "No" to this activity, and win when they do. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #19 October 22, 2012 I remember that story from long ago,,,they never let him fly again ? Damn,,,is the complete story around somewhere Thankssmile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #20 October 22, 2012 QuoteI was told by a reliable source that the FAA has two catch-all charges, Careless operation and Reckless operation. With these two charges they do not have to directly site an FAR, but rather just state that safe operating procedures were not followed. As for dropping things from a plane, I spent over 20 years dropping test items out of planes. Many of them because of the FAA. They stopped Bob Hover from flying; they can do just about anything they want. Sparky Sparky is right, if they want you, they will get you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #21 October 22, 2012 QuoteQuoteI was told by a reliable source that the FAA has two catch-all charges, Careless operation and Reckless operation. With these two charges they do not have to directly site an FAR, but rather just state that safe operating procedures were not followed. As for dropping things from a plane, I spent over 20 years dropping test items out of planes. Many of them because of the FAA. They stopped Bob Hover from flying; they can do just about anything they want. Sparky Sparky is right, if they want you, they will get you. Well, fortunately for me I was not a "Chunker" or even present at the event. Plus, I just got word that I need not worry about it any more. But maybe the DZO's hosting these events would do well to cross their "T's" and dot their "I's", prior to the event, to be safe. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #22 October 22, 2012 QuoteI remember that story from long ago,,,they never let him fly again ? Damn,,,is the complete story around somewhere Thanks ..................................................................... Bob Hoover eventually got his FAA medical back and was allowed to resume flying, but it was a long and bitter legal battle and the only people who enjoyed it were the lawyers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #23 October 22, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteI was told by a reliable source that the FAA has two catch-all charges, Careless operation and Reckless operation. With these two charges they do not have to directly site an FAR, but rather just state that safe operating procedures were not followed. As for dropping things from a plane, I spent over 20 years dropping test items out of planes. Many of them because of the FAA. They stopped Bob Hover from flying; they can do just about anything they want. Sparky Sparky is right, if they want you, they will get you. Well, fortunately for me I was not a "Chunker" or even present at the event. Plus, I just got word that I need not worry about it any more. But maybe the DZO's hosting these events would do well to cross their "T's" and dot their "I's", prior to the event, to be safe. Matt I guess I missed how the FAA got involved in this. Pumpkin Chunkin' has been done all over the country and I have only heard of one incident, years ago, where any damage has occurred. Of course, people use to be able to spot also. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #24 October 22, 2012 I didn't post how the Inspector got asked the question, because I wasn't there, but it is a DZ fight across states lines. I am just glad I am not involved now. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #25 October 23, 2012 Skydivers are their own worst enemy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
