popsjumper 2 #26 October 13, 2012 Quote Just last month I was 5th out from the end of an otter load, saw it was a long spot, told the people behind me and preceded to let them go ahead of me if they wanted. I was going to ride the plane down if I didn't get another pass, but the pilot was kind enough to give it to me even though I was the last one out. The 5 ahead of me landed out. Now, can you teach others to do that? For the most part, green does NOT mean go, especially if it means getting out and busting FAR's (traffic, weather, etc). But, it doesn't mean screwing a whole load behind you if you're first out. So, make smart decisions and keep a good balance with the rest of the load in mind.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #27 October 13, 2012 Quote its crazy when i see more experienced guys that dont know what the uppers, mids and lower winds are doing or are not sure which way jump run is going exactly. Would you believe that all-too-many of those "experienced guys" are AFFIs and TIs? Quote what sucks is when i try to inform someone who has more experience jump wise then me, they look at me crazy like what the hell do you know; IMO, arrogance is everywhere. Quote i say oh well, do what you want and go on my way. You can lead a horse to water but........My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adamUK 3 #28 October 14, 2012 Don't DZ have a nominated 'jump master' who is responsible for spotting (also exit order, jump separation, etc)? How can the front of plane know if the spot's right? I've been on loads where I've literally been pushed out the door by the occupants behind which was a bit worrying since the uppers were honkin' and I was trying put some air between me and the group in front. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr_Polite 0 #29 October 14, 2012 Most dz's do not have a "jump master" spotting each load. Whoever is at the door should spot but the majority of new jumpers don't actually know how to spot. If you're in the back of the plane you should stick your own head out the door and have a quick look before you get out. If someone tries to push you out punch them in the dick! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #30 October 14, 2012 Quote The experienced freeflyers and wingsuiters are usually the ones doing the hollering. They should know better...but most of the loud ones probably went straight from A-license to freeflying, and then to wingsuiting, thus never having to sit next to the door when the pilot turns on the green light a long ways out. I don't think I agree about wingsuiters. Why should they care where the RW and FF folks exit. At my home DZ we generally get to go another mile out anyway so there's no hurry to get to the door. Anyhow, everyone should just STFU and let the jumper in the door spot. If the "spotter" needs help, maybe they should ask someone to help them.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adamUK 3 #31 October 14, 2012 Quote If someone tries to push you out punch them in the dick! This was in Eastern Europe. Don't think I'll be going back there. Maybe because I was the foreigner. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LyraM45 0 #32 October 14, 2012 *Muah* Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adamhildreth 0 #33 October 14, 2012 Quote Don't DZ have a nominated 'jump master' who is responsible for spotting (also exit order, jump separation, etc)? How can the front of plane know if the spot's right? I've been on loads where I've literally been pushed out the door by the occupants behind which was a bit worrying since the uppers were honkin' and I was trying put some air between me and the group in front. . BPA rules mean you have to have a Jump Master on each load - not sure about USPA but i don't think it's a requirement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #34 October 14, 2012 >The GPS on the other hand never makes mistakes. I recall a spot for a demo in Cabo where the GPS told us to turn right and fly about 1300 miles . . . fortunately the "cunt at the door" noticed and gave us a pretty good spot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 38 #35 October 15, 2012 And if people are waiting for the green light to start spotting you are way too late. You should be spotting from the 2 minute light so you know what is happening. I've certainly waited on green many times before, but I've also gotten hosed because the first group waited for the best spot for them. Spotting should start way before the green light. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #36 October 15, 2012 Quote And if people are waiting for the green light to start spotting you are way too late. You should be spotting from the 2 minute light so you know what is happening. I've certainly waited on green many times before, but I've also gotten hosed because the first group waited for the best spot for them. Spotting should start way before the green light. As I said before...spotting starts on the ground. In the plane, starting at say, the two-minute warning, you are only checking traffic, clouds, location and ground track....and if you know what you are doing, you can verify exit separation.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rss_v 0 #37 October 16, 2012 I'd like to have even a few seconds to spot and look around before I have to get out, but on a commercial DZ with tandems waiting behind a handful of club jumpers, we have to just GTFO when we're told to. Usually the jump master (often a camera man since he's not engaged with the tandems so closely) will give a hand signal for each jumper or group and if you hang around you may well get a shove or at least a telling off later. I'm going to claim to be doing some tracking jumps so I get to be the last one out, then I can take at least 10-15s to have a look at the ground before the pilot starts banking to try and tip me out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #38 October 16, 2012 Quote green light does not mean GO! what does it mean then ?scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #39 October 16, 2012 Quote Quote green light does not mean GO! what does it mean then ? It only means that the a/c is configured for exit. "I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #40 October 16, 2012 Quote Quote Quote green light does not mean GO! what does it mean then ? It only means that the a/c is configured for exit. Actually it means whatever the Pilot in Command says it means. If the PIC says it means exit the plane NOW, then that's what it means.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #41 October 16, 2012 Quote Actually it means whatever the Pilot in Command says it means. If the PIC says it means exit the plane NOW, then that's what it means. I agree in sentiment... but, ultimately, it's my decision to jump or not. At that point, the decision to exit (when cleared by the PIC) is mine! I also take full responsibility for that decision.Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 1 #42 October 16, 2012 Quote And if people are waiting for the green light to start spotting you are way too late. You should be spotting from the 2 minute light so you know what is happening. I've certainly waited on green many times before, but I've also gotten hosed because the first group waited for the best spot for them. Spotting should start way before the green light. +1 When you see yellow... open the door and start spotting. Too many turbine babies out there that have no idea how to spot. I really am color blind. If I am spotting a load and I see yellow I stick my head out the door and wait until the spot is right, I make sure the plane is leveled off, and that we are safe to jump (avoiding traffic, clouds, etc.) I do not ever look at the lights after I see yellow. But I learned out of 182's so what do I know? Edited to add.... out of 182's you get a nod and open the door. That's when spotting starts for all of you who have never experienced these small planes. Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
upndownshop 0 #43 October 16, 2012 Quote Quote green light does not mean GO! what does it mean then ? I was taught that the green light means the pilot has cleared you for exit, and if conditions are right you can go. To me, the green light gives you the "right" to go, does not mean you have to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtiflyer 0 #44 October 16, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote green light does not mean GO! what does it mean then ? It only means that the a/c is configured for exit. Actually it means whatever the Pilot in Command says it means. If the PIC says it means exit the plane NOW, then that's what it means. Calling bull on that one Kallend. No pilot worth his salt wants you to risk his license or his job. Being an SDC jumper you should know when Dave or any other pilot at SDC turns on the green it means, plane and pilot are ready and this is where THEY THINK you should get out. They aren't looking out the door, they might not see that crop duster flying around over the landing area, or the cloud cover. Going strictly on the green is lunacy and is a dis-service to everybody else in the plane including the pilot. One of the things I loved about SDC is their willingness to keep everybody safe, if that means a hook on jump run, or a full go-around so be it. After that happens you fix what caused it and continue on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #45 October 16, 2012 Quote Quote The experienced freeflyers and wingsuiters are usually the ones doing the hollering. They should know better...but most of the loud ones probably went straight from A-license to freeflying, and then to wingsuiting, thus never having to sit next to the door when the pilot turns on the green light a long ways out. I don't think I agree about wingsuiters. Why should they care where the RW and FF folks exit. They must be piss poor wingsuiters. As a wingsuiter, the "spot" will still be good even if everyone takes a little extra time in the door ... heck, I encourage people to take extra time in the door so I can get some more distance to work with."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LyraM45 0 #46 October 16, 2012 Quote One of the things I loved about SDC is their willingness to keep everybody safe, if that means a hook on jump run, or a full go-around so be it. After that happens you fix what caused it and continue on. Kudos to SDC for doing that. I know fuel ain't cheap and I understand why some DZ's would really need a good reason for a go around, but I like jumping at a DZ where I know that if I call "stop" on the exit for a good safety concern like traffic passing below or something, that people: A.) won't be upset with me, or scream "go!" at me, and B.) we will get time for another pass if needed. The DZ's that have a no go around policy no matter what really foster an environment for some bad decisions in the door; like one that would force a person, perhaps a new skydiver who didn't know any better, to think twice and maybe get out over traffic or whatever else is out there because people were shouting at them. I really loose a lot of respect for places that are like that. Hats off to SDC for not being one of them!Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr_Polite 0 #47 October 16, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote green light does not mean GO! what does it mean then ? It only means that the a/c is configured for exit. Actually it means whatever the Pilot in Command says it means. If the PIC says it means exit the plane NOW, then that's what it means. There is a big difference when the pilot says get out now because it is an emergency vs a green light for a normal jump run. I have seen some pissy pilots who get all upset when you don't go right away on green or question their spot. They can't see what is going on straight below the plane but you can. Spot for yourself/group before you jump! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtiflyer 0 #48 October 16, 2012 Quote Quote One of the things I loved about SDC is their willingness to keep everybody safe, if that means a hook on jump run, or a full go-around so be it. After that happens you fix what caused it and continue on. Kudos to SDC for doing that. I know fuel ain't cheap and I understand why some DZ's would really need a good reason for a go around, but I like jumping at a DZ where I know that if I call "stop" on the exit for a good safety concern like traffic passing below or something, that people: A.) won't be upset with me, or scream "go!" at me, and B.) we will get time for another pass if needed. The DZ's that have a no go around policy no matter what really foster an environment for some bad decisions in the door; like one that would force a person, perhaps a new skydiver who didn't know any better, to think twice and maybe get out over traffic or whatever else is out there because people were shouting at them. I really loose a lot of respect for places that are like that. Hats off to SDC for not being one of them! Now having said that, every rig i know of has a get back handle. Sometimes you have to break off high to get open sooner to get back from a long spot. Spotting doesn't stop once you leave then plane, it only stops when you touch the ground. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #49 October 16, 2012 Quote Quote Quote The experienced freeflyers and wingsuiters are usually the ones doing the hollering. They should know better...but most of the loud ones probably went straight from A-license to freeflying, and then to wingsuiting, thus never having to sit next to the door when the pilot turns on the green light a long ways out. I don't think I agree about wingsuiters. Why should they care where the RW and FF folks exit. They must be piss poor wingsuiters. As a wingsuiter, the "spot" will still be good even if everyone takes a little extra time in the door ... heck, I encourage people to take extra time in the door so I can get some more distance to work with. So why would they shout "Go go go"? I think you agree with me and misread what I wrote.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #50 October 16, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote green light does not mean GO! what does it mean then ? It only means that the a/c is configured for exit. Actually it means whatever the Pilot in Command says it means. If the PIC says it means exit the plane NOW, then that's what it means. Calling bull on that one Kallend. No pilot worth his salt wants you to risk his license or his job. Being an SDC jumper you should know when Dave or any other pilot at SDC turns on the green it means, plane and pilot are ready and this is where THEY THINK you should get out. Please re-read what I wrote. I didn't claim that SDC pilots tell you to go on green. Simply pointed out that the PIC is the ultimate authority for what goes on in the plane and if she instructs you to exit by whatever means (including lights), then that's what you should do.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
