Deisel 38 #26 September 30, 2012 Looks like this thread has been hijacked! My apologies to the OP, but I believe that your question has been answered. In reply to curmudgeon - I've never had a S/L student show up at the DZ. If one ever does that will be a great opportunity for someone that knows the system to show me how it works. Until then... - I would place the IRM online. Additionally, the IRM quotes several studies used to derive it's information. I'd love to see links to those studies in order to get a better understanding of the 'hows and whys'. And by the way, some of the IRM is factually incorrect regarding the science it quotes. - I believe that USPA is keeping an income source available by not offering the IRM electronically. - I never said that you shouldnt have a recent copy of the SIM and IRM. I update mine every 2 years. And read them side by side to find differences. - I still teach the FJC. At my DZ it's an I job, not coaches. - I still coach regularly and believe that every I should be required to do coach jumps from time to time. Far too many have forgotten what coaches actually are supposed to do, let alone properly supervise coaches. Or how to do it for that matter. And not to make this a personnal attack, but you sound like a typical 'old school' instructor. 'We do it this way because that how we've always done it!' is a weak argument at best. I'm saying that we should raise the bar. Technology can help do it.The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
curmudgeon 0 #27 September 30, 2012 You say that the IRM quotes some studies...is it really that hard to do a google search and find this information....I doubt it is classified....again, it seems that unless we spoon-feed people this information, they won't take the initiative to find it. I'm betting it's really not that hard. If your dz forbids coaches from teaching a FJC...how do they renew their rating? I seem to recall that teaching the generic part of the FJC is needed for renewal....are the instructors/S&TAs just signing off on these things? That really doesn't make me want to jump on the 'interactive online learning and have the local jumpers do my testing' bandwagon. And, yeah, I am an old school instructor, I do nothing but teach skydiving, and never once have advocated maintaining the status quo, but I also reject change simply for the sake of change. You have a strange notion of what raising the bar is...putting a document online and crowing about the use of technology is not very impressive to me. I can understand how USPA would like to have some notion about who is obtaining a rating by monitoring the purchases of the IRM....it's not like they are knee deep in cash over there anyways. Do you plan to teach AFF and Coach rating courses for free? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deisel 38 #28 September 30, 2012 You are correct. Unless the information is made readily available it is less likely that folks will go and seek it out. The opposite is also true. By providing the information it is more likely to be read. If you want people to do something, make it easier to do and it may happen more often. Just like providing more garbage cans so that less trash ends up on the ground. Coaches aren't forbidden from teaching at my DZ. It's just that I's are usually assigned to do it. Coaches can assist all day - which meets the requirement for rating renewal. Well I haven't outlined a specific plan to raise the bar - I don't have one. But since you asked, I'd start by making the courses longer. The coach course should be around 10 days and the examiner course around a week. But since this isn't realistic I believe that there could be a place for online classes to fill the void without requiring more in person classroom time. I would love to be able to teach for free. I actually already do a good deal of no cost instruction around the DZ on a great many topics. I don't charge for packing classes, recurrency training, RW coaching, or any of the random stuff that comes up. All of which I've seen good money spent for. I enjoy doing it and look for opportunities to continue the education of newer jumpers. Unfortunately, it has cost so much to get my ratings that I have to recover the money somehow. And I don't believe for 1 second that USPA actually monitors who buys the IRM. I can pick one up at most full service gear stores.The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #29 September 30, 2012 Quote Put the onus on the candidate to study, complete tests, and have a working knowedge of course materiel prior to arrival. That's exactly how it is now. The problem is that they quite often don't do it, come into the course unprepared and the I/Es let them slide. "Oh, you don't have the pre-course test completed? That's OK...do it during lunch or something." Me? If you didn't come prepared, come back some other day when you ARE prepared.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #30 September 30, 2012 QuoteThe IRM only covers a portion of what the actual course does. What I'm talking about is all of the advanced materiel that tends to get skimmed over due to a lack of time. Will you provide a specific example of what you are addressing here? QuoteOur problem is quality control - not method of information delivery. Exactly! So why are you proposing a change in information delivery? That is not going to do a dang thing to improve the quality of instruction by any rating holder.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #31 September 30, 2012 Quote My Course Director had very specific requirements he was looking for that were not outlined in either of the manuals. His course - his rules. Yes. Now THAT is something that needs to be addressed..consistency across the board. Quote But the more you read the better you can prepare for maximising your time with an instructor. Which is one reason why they want you to do the pre-course reading and test. QuoteUSPA has now made the entire First Jump Course available online. That's incorrect. QuoteDoes anyone take students that have completed this iteration of training and say "You did the online course? Well hell sarge, let's go get on the manifest!" Of course not. Which shows WHY your previous statement is not correct. QuoteBut having a student already familiar with the materiel helps. I see this quite a bit with students I coach who have studied the available videos. I simply have them brief me on the jump and fill in any gaps that may exist. Personally, I would question this approach to coaching young jumpers. QuoteI'm just saying that we could make better use of available technology, that's all. I'm in favor of anything that increases the dissemenation of information. This stuff isn't classified and the more of us that know it the better we are as a sport/community. Agreed! Yes! Again...rating candidates at all levels are supposed to be doing pre-course work. Personally, I think if the candidate is not going to use current easily-ccessible and available tools to do that, he damned sure ain't a-gonna use other tools.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
