theonlyski 8 #76 August 28, 2012 Quote Kloess-Finley disagreed saying the spot is only 0.6 miles closer meaning it’s still more than a mile from the base, which provides plenty of buffer for an experienced jumper. What about students?"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airsport 0 #77 August 28, 2012 QuoteQuoteInside the wire means you are on the base without permission. At a nuclear base, every square inch is theirs to declare whatever they like. Whether you land on the baseball diamond, or on top of a submarine, the navy security have a job to do. They could fill you full of bullet holes if they so chose, and walk away fully justified... Um, no. Do you really think a military security detail would be charged with anything if they put a bullet into an unauthorised, unannounced trespasser, using the "I thought he was a terrorist" defence?. I doubt if the military would pay any penalty, at all. Yes I do think they would pay a price for killing anyone who does not pose a threat. As they should! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 798 #78 August 28, 2012 You're never going to understand nor appreciate military security are you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airsport 0 #79 August 28, 2012 Quote You're never going to understand nor appreciate military security are you? Served..... You? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #80 August 28, 2012 Couple of questions I will throw out since I have seen similar airport fights including one locally about 10 years ago and the reasons for it might vary but getting to the root of the issue might help. Does the DZ lease/own a hanger directly from the airport? If they are a direct tenet then they have a say to the airport board but the board can still vote to evict. But if they are on a sublease then they lose some or all of their say at the airport. Does the DZ buy a substantial amount of fuel from the local FBO or do they truck it all in? One DZ locally was in a fight with the airport board years ago and stopped buying fuel and would truck it in from other airports, this ended up costing them the FBO's favorable opinion and the FBO chose not to support them anymore. Once this support was lost they found they had very few people willing to assist. I have no idea the situation at St. Mary's but these are factors that the airport looks into. The "Just off airport" landing area that was described was identified as being around 2 acres in size. This might be too small to qualify as a student landing area so that all non-licensed holders may need to have a separate landing area that abides by the USPA BSR's. Further depending on the near by obstructions this may be closer to an open field demo landing area in which the requirements are much higher and might even exclude most licensed jumpers or potentially even tandems.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 798 #81 August 28, 2012 On multiple top secret no foreign posts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #82 August 28, 2012 Like I said earlier.... it's not a done deal, the FAA has final say. In fact she had the airport sponsor dead to right, right where she needed them to be to hang um....., UNTIL they handed it right to the airport sponsor by their statements and actions in dealing with the ongoing dispute, AND then she pissed off the NAVY on top of all the other shit. I have spent the last four years dealing with an airport access case, I talk to a trusted expert in the field that "we" pay real good money too in order to keep the sport in business, he is a very smart fella, and I can hear him yelling "Kathy,WTF are you thinking/doing", half way across the country and I'm not even on the phone with him and my windows are closed. While the FAA might side with Kathy, that is true, however pigs might fly out my ass too, wait around and see. My money is on the Navy getting it's way.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #83 August 28, 2012 Quote Quote You're never going to understand nor appreciate military security are you? Served..... You? The Captain and Admiral pretty much labeled the next jumper a Terrorist. It is a Nuclear Facility, we (you too, yes?) who have been on them all know they have a bit higher standard of security, and a bit wider latitude in its execution than say a standard facility for Basic Training. Kathy would probably had no issues, till the off landing and Video, with staying open since I think like Strat and others she had the FAA on here side, or would have given past findings, now the Dept Of the Navy/DOD, not a fair set of odds. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 0 #84 August 28, 2012 QuoteSt. Marys actually just got what they wanted, although a few year late. They were trying to sell the airport to developers about 5 yrs ago. I doubt there are any buyers now though. What a huge cluster fuck. U.S. Navy maybe??? I bet when then call it a matter of national security they get to break out the checkbook. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #85 August 28, 2012 It is hard to believe how naïve people can be. It appears that the DZ is so rapped up in it own self importance that they fail to see the no win situation they have put themselves in. It’s sad but as other have posted this is probably a done deal. Once again skydivers are their own worst enemy. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twatterpilot 0 #86 August 28, 2012 So TJP completely blew it for the entire airport. Great job. I am all about keeping legal, safe, operators at airports that have gotten Fed money. I contribute to the AOPA Airport Defense fund every year. But this time, TJP has to go. I am afraid I will side with the Navy and our National Security on this one. Find somewhere else to jump, stop the childish BS and think about others before yourselves. What TJP is trying to pull is reflecting VERY badly on the skydiving industry and aviation in general. These are EXACTLY the type of events that cause the Government and the FAA to re-think GA security measures. Time to KIO. Apologize and GTFO. Oh and for the record, I have never had the honor to serve in our beloved military, however, I feel that the Navy Security forces SHOULD blow away anyone that they determine a threat to our national security. For F*&K sakes they store nuclear weapons there...common sense people...Airline Transport Pilot, Multi-Engine Land, DHC-8 Commercial Multi-Engine Sea, Single Engine Land Private Glider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airsport 0 #87 August 28, 2012 QuoteCouple of questions I will throw out since I have seen similar airport fights including one locally about 10 years ago and the reasons for it might vary but getting to the root of the issue might help. Does the DZ lease/own a hanger directly from the airport? If they are a direct tenet then they have a say to the airport board but the board can still vote to evict. But if they are on a sublease then they lose some or all of their say at the airport. Does the DZ buy a substantial amount of fuel from the local FBO or do they truck it all in? One DZ locally was in a fight with the airport board years ago and stopped buying fuel and would truck it in from other airports, this ended up costing them the FBO's favorable opinion and the FBO chose not to support them anymore. Once this support was lost they found they had very few people willing to assist. I have no idea the situation at St. Mary's but these are factors that the airport looks into. The "Just off airport" landing area that was described was identified as being around 2 acres in size. This might be too small to qualify as a student landing area so that all non-licensed holders may need to have a separate landing area that abides by the USPA BSR's. Further depending on the near by obstructions this may be closer to an open field demo landing area in which the requirements are much higher and might even exclude most licensed jumpers or potentially even tandems. Sublease from a City Counsel person who has a 25 year lease on 8? hangers. FBO has fuel $2 higher than reasonable. So no. AND the FBO owner's son is the chairman of the Airport Authority Board. Rumor has it that Dad is looking for a buy out from the Government/NAVY for all the loss of business due to P-50.... I think his loss of income is overcharging for fuel--when he has it--and shoddy work/customer service. So the NAVY wanting the airport relocated is a windfall for the FBO. The landing area off airport isn't going to work with students or 95% of the fun jumpers.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ParaHog 0 #88 August 28, 2012 QuoteThe Aug. 12 landing of two skydivers inside Kings Naval Submarine Base’s perimeter has heightened the Navy’s security concern to the point that the base commander on Monday called for the relocation of the St. Marys Airport from which a skydiving business operates. But of course, because if you relocate the nearby airport, no REAL terrorist would ever be able to parachute into the base. Problem solved! I never knew military security was so cut and dried. And if they relocate nearby boatyards, then no terrorist attack could possibly come by sea. By gosh, this is easy! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ParaHog 0 #89 August 28, 2012 Quote You're never going to understand nor appreciate military security are you? Some people here seem to believe that military security gets to shoot anyone they want, without any repercussions. Incorrect! They have rules of engagement and levels of force to follow, just like civilian police officers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #90 August 28, 2012 Quote The landing area off airport isn't going to work with students or 95% of the fun jumpers.... Might wanna talk to the guys at The Farm... Seems to work out pretty damn well for them. "I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #91 August 28, 2012 QuoteQuoteCouple of questions I will throw out since I have seen similar airport fights including one locally about 10 years ago and the reasons for it might vary but getting to the root of the issue might help. Does the DZ lease/own a hanger directly from the airport? If they are a direct tenet then they have a say to the airport board but the board can still vote to evict. But if they are on a sublease then they lose some or all of their say at the airport. Does the DZ buy a substantial amount of fuel from the local FBO or do they truck it all in? One DZ locally was in a fight with the airport board years ago and stopped buying fuel and would truck it in from other airports, this ended up costing them the FBO's favorable opinion and the FBO chose not to support them anymore. Once this support was lost they found they had very few people willing to assist. I have no idea the situation at St. Mary's but these are factors that the airport looks into. The "Just off airport" landing area that was described was identified as being around 2 acres in size. This might be too small to qualify as a student landing area so that all non-licensed holders may need to have a separate landing area that abides by the USPA BSR's. Further depending on the near by obstructions this may be closer to an open field demo landing area in which the requirements are much higher and might even exclude most licensed jumpers or potentially even tandems. Sublease from a City Counsel person who has a 25 year lease on 8? hangers. FBO has fuel $2 higher than reasonable. So no. AND the FBO owner's son is the chairman of the Airport Authority Board. Rumor has it that Dad is looking for a buy out from the Government/NAVY for all the loss of business due to P-50.... I think his loss of income is overcharging for fuel--when he has it--and shoddy work/customer service. So the NAVY wanting the airport relocated is a windfall for the FBO. The landing area off airport isn't going to work with students or 95% of the fun jumpers.... If St. Mary's is such a lousy place as you seem to suggest, why is TJP so upset about leaving?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #92 August 28, 2012 Quote Quote The landing area off airport isn't going to work with students or 95% of the fun jumpers.... Might wanna talk to the guys at The Farm... Seems to work out pretty damn well for them. 2 acres v/s 50 acres. Makes a difference. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jinlee 0 #93 August 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote The landing area off airport isn't going to work with students or 95% of the fun jumpers.... Might wanna talk to the guys at The Farm... Seems to work out pretty damn well for them. 2 acres v/s 50 acres. Makes a difference. Jump in Georgia, land in Florida. win win Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airsport 0 #94 August 29, 2012 Quote Quote The landing area off airport isn't going to work with students or 95% of the fun jumpers.... Might wanna talk to the guys at The Farm... Seems to work out pretty damn well for them. The 2 acre landing area.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airsport 0 #95 August 29, 2012 QuoteIf St. Mary's is such a lousy place as you seem to suggest, why is TJP so upset about leaving? 6 year building the business there. Customer base. Cost, risk, lost business. why do I waste my time.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
excuse 0 #96 August 29, 2012 Quote Quote If St. Mary's is such a lousy place as you seem to suggest, why is TJP so upset about leaving? 6 year building the business there. Customer base. Cost, risk, lost business. And the amazing views! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #97 August 29, 2012 If the 2 acre landing area was going to be an issue, why even bother with trying? Quote 6 year building the business there. Customer base. Cost, risk, lost business. If there's that much to loose, why basically tell the airport to fuck off and jump anyway? Wrong or not, your dz shot itself in the foot with that move."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #98 August 29, 2012 Quote Quote You're never going to understand nor appreciate military security are you? Served..... You? That is consistently one of the more jerkoff "expressions" in American English. Props to you for keeping it alive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #99 August 29, 2012 I think you misunderstood. He is stating that he served in the military and asking if the other person has. I'll save my opinion of the question. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billeisele 130 #100 August 29, 2012 woo hoo - hard to make a joke here without anyone strangling themselves with their own panties not that it is relevant but no I've never served, but do have the pleasure of working with the DoD every day, will be at Parris Island tomorrow yes I have worked for the government as a contractor, on a Navy facility with nuclear missles, in buildings with the stuff, and am very familiar with security and how serious it can get it will be interesting to see what happens if another jumper lands on the Base, my bet is the Base Commander has a standing order to detain trespassers for an uncomfortable period of time, and if they have a GoPro with aerial shots it could get real interestingGive one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
