St. Marys votes to kick off The Jumping place.

[normiss 798]

imagine said jumper is a foreigner.....

[billeisele 130]

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imagine said jumper is a foreigner.....

with a GoPro and an attitude - We have an island vacation for you or maybe we just send you to the Navy Brig in Charleston where all bad people go for a time-out

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

[Andy9o8 2]

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I think you misunderstood.

He is stating that he served in the military and asking if the other person has. I'll save my opinion of the question.

I understood perfectly.

[Amazon 7]

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If St. Mary's is such a lousy place as you seem to suggest, why is TJP so upset about leaving?

6 year building the business there. Customer base. Cost, risk, lost business.

And the amazing views!

I used to have a VERY amazing view from my barracks. About 100 yards to the east of the barracks was a series of fences and these big piles of dirt and concrete that housed a very sizable accumulation of rather large examples of BRIGHT SHINY DEATH that would be shuffled from bunker to bunker.. assembled and then taken over to the alert pad and loaded on B-52's. These were the weapons that would be used many hours after the war got going in ernest. These were the rather large thermonuclear devices that would have been used against the hardened tagets and command bunkers. It was the cold war and the fellows wandering around over there inside that fence were some serious assholes. Only an idiot would have given them a chance to mess with you if you even got close to their fence.

SERIOUS DUDE.... poking the people with guns who are protecting our BRIGHT SHINY DEATH.. is majorly stupid. Whats done is done.. but the furiner landing on the base... has those people twitching in ALL the wrong places.

[airsport 0]

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I think you misunderstood.

He is stating that he served in the military and asking if the other person has. I'll save my opinion of the question.

Thanks for clarifying this! As some folks have little to do but tell people what they should think, do and act on so many levels in this forum, it's nice to see posts that mitigate the noise.

[matthewcline 0]

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You're never going to understand nor appreciate military security are you?

Some people here seem to believe that military security gets to shoot anyone they want, without any repercussions. Incorrect! They have rules of engagement and levels of force to follow, just like civilian police officers.

True, but as soon as you enter the installation with out authorization the ROE is not in your favor! Do so by violating the Restricted Airspace over a Nuclear Facility, you reducing the favor again.

Over all, not smooth move.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[fencebuster 7]

I just saw on TJP's Facebook Page that they are taking their student and tandem operation to Palatka for this weekend. Sounds like this fight may be over for all practical purposes.

Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

[normiss 798]

Dude bro, they're landing on baseball fields!
No need to worry about the nukes or the nuke subs.
It's all chill.
Those military types just don't get it man!

[matthewcline 0]

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Dude bro, they're landing on baseball fields!
No need to worry about the nukes or the nuke subs.
It's all chill.
Those military types just don't get it man!

Guess not!

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[Scrumpot 1]

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But of course, because if you relocate the nearby airport, no REAL terrorist would ever be able to parachute into the base. Problem solved!

No, you miss the point. What it does eliminate ("problem solve" for though) is the on-going probability and likelihood of continual ERRANT skydivers being the culprits; and therefore distractions, and further takes away the base security's needs to second-guess - "Hey - what is that parachute here now coming in over the wire" scenario too.

Read the base commander's own (published) actual letter regarding this, and not just the mainstream media's paraphrase. He was neither unclear on that - nor for the circumstances, honestly for that matter either, unreasonable.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[jinlee 0]

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But of course, because if you relocate the nearby airport, no REAL terrorist would ever be able to parachute into the base. Problem solved!

No, you miss the point. What it does eliminate ("problem solve" for though) is the on-going probability and likelihood of continual ERRANT skydivers being the culprits; and therefore distractions, and further takes away the base security's needs to second-guess - "Hey - what is that parachute here now coming in over the wire" scenario too.

Read the base commander's own (published) actual letter regarding this, and not just the mainstream media's paraphrase. He was neither unclear on that - nor for the circumstances, honestly for that matter either, unreasonable.

I am unfamiliar with the area but having looked at google imagery of the area, the base is very close to the airport, and the airport is also bordered by waterways, the city of St Mary's itself seemingly has very little available land for parachute landing areas other than the airport property itself.

The dispute now revolves around the issue of guarantees that no jumpers will, at any time in the future use the base as a landing area.

The nearest open areas appear to be 10 miles to the south, in Florida. In order to offer assurances to the Navy base and the airport authority it appears that a viable option is in fact to use the St Mary's airport yet land jumpers offsite in Florida. This however would require research and approaching various land owners in Florida about the usage of their property for skydiving landing operations.

Again problem solving speculation on my part not knowing the surrounding area and the viability of this idea as a measure to offer assurances that no jumpers will land on the airport property or the Navy base.

It's a longshot possibility perhaps and requires the acquisition of a "short bus" for jumpers.

With the Navy invoking "National Security" issues there is now, little hope of continuing operations as I am aware from what has taken place.

Pressure may being brought to bear against the airport authority because of the skydiving operation and this is why the airport authority has taken the stance they have or not.

Doubtful the Navy truly needs to acquire the local airport property, although they may. I don't know the details

[jhh166 0]

[matthewcline 0]

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Hmm.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[fencebuster 7]

I have jumped at TJP, done tandems and AFF there for Cathy. There is no way a competent skydiver should land on the Navy Base. She has a thorough briefing, with video and photos telling jumpers that they are not to land there. 4 jumpers, C-182, there simply is no way a competent skydiver should land on the base, particularly with the "don't do it, or else" brief she provides. This is truly an unfortunate situation. She has a nice place; I modeled my new DZ on hers -- tandems, AFF and fun jumpers out of C-182 (to start), but it is also clear that the Airport Authority has a undisclosed agenda. The Airport Authority reminds me alot of the hillbillies in Deliverance.

Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

[ParaHog 0]

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I agree completely!

[stratostar 5]

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but it is also clear that the Airport Authority has a undisclosed agenda. The Airport Authority reminds me alot of the hillbillies in Deliverance.

If you take the time to study all the known airport access cases, one thing that stands out in those is that they all read verbatim. Like one of those call center script reading classes they all attended.

All airport sponsors have an agenda when it comes to not wanting skydivers on the airport. They all use and say that same stupid shit and tactics with users and the FAA.

All airport boards and sponsors act like and are the "good old boy's" club and if your not in the club you will get the "hillbillies in Deliverance" treatment. None of the actions of St. Mary's is a surprise, in fact many of their actions could have been expected and planned for had the proper actions been followed by the operator, thus giving the the dz the upper hand in any of it's on going access fight.

As it turned out though, some in the skydiving camp thought it would be cute to "test" the city and while at it, thumb their nose at the very agency they are depending on to help with winning the access case.... by conducting a number of well documented via the press, violations of FAR 105.23b. That is what has doomed them, those actions alone sealed their fate, the fact the navy is pissed off now too.... well as one wise old Jap once said "I fear all we have done is awaken the sleeping giant".

All the crap the city was pulling with special permits or what ever bullshit, should have been documented and calls to a lawyer and the ADO should have been on going for months, long before the cops showed up to revoke permission. Had the right steps and actions been taken by TJP owners and staff, this could have "maybe" been a victory for them pretty easy, depending on how the new PLA thing plays out.

From standing on the outside and only having the public record to go by, in reading all, this is a classic example of: "how not to win your airport access case during a time of importance pending standards changes to on airport landing areas".

It's not like this information is not out there and or a paid consultant for all members to seek strong advice and guidance in dealing with these kind of issues, only a fool would not heed his advice and make every effort work with in the system to fix the problem.

I understand all the fucking games they play and all that bullshit about how it hurts her business... yadda yadda yadda. You know what, how's her fucking business now?

If it was worth fighting for that location as much she made a stink about it , then playing by the rules of the fight should have been the plan from day one, there is that paid consultant guy who will help formulate a plan and help you with guidance.... many others have proven that advice and guidance to be reliable and successful if followed.

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The Airport Authority reminds me alot of the hillbillies in Deliverance.

TJP actions are unprofessional to say the least and could harm the industry on a national level.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[airsport 0]

Time will tell if this have been detrimental to Airport Access.

Sure there are plenty of ways to spend lots of money to end up still ousted from your DZ. TJP has worked with the FAA, USPA, $400/hr recommended by the USPA attorney and others.

Last legal advise was to continue business as usual.

[normiss 798]

How much does a bullet proof vest weigh?

[mjosparky 4]

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Time will tell if this have been detrimental to Airport Access.

Sure there are plenty of ways to spend lots of money to end up still ousted from your DZ. TJP has worked with the FAA, USPA, $400/hr recommended by the USPA attorney and others.

Last legal advise was to continue business as usual.

Has anyone bothered to do any research into the City and the Airport? It seems they have been working on a plan to relocate the Airport for sometime. If I had worked 6 years to build a business I would know everything about the City. That’s just common sense.

Sparky

http://www.stmarysga.gov/document_center/studies/airport_feasibility_study/index.php

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[normiss 798]

Seems like quite the embarrassing information to see.

You'd think you'd want to be an active member in sorting that out.

[Bolas 5]

If one knew the city wanted to close the current airport and there was either no new airport being built or the new airport design made the new airport unable to support skydivers, they might feel they had little to (personally) lose if they kept jumping while searching for a new location. It's selfish but it's also self preservation.

They did piss off the city, but were honest with the Navy.

It sounds as if TJP owns land adjacent to the airport so when the airport is closed and sold, they can sell their property too. That's a hedged bet.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[mjosparky 4]

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Seems like quite the embarrassing information to see.

You'd think you'd want to be an active member in sorting that out.

You would think.......dah

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[ripcrdat700 0]

Who decided on the spot for the two who landed on the base. Did they check the spot? What happened to there training? Winds aloft? Jump run? Give corrections to the pilot, 5 left, 5 right. Do a go around? You are not in the otter. 7 years ago the first ride to altitude and my Jumpmaster said to me "who is responsible for your skydive" 3 weeks prior to this off landing, me and my friend did seven jumps at St. Marys. two of those jumps back to back with the same pilot (not Cathy). Pilot called door and the airport was on the other side of the plane. I gave my corrections, which were several. Lined up jump run and all landed on. The next load, same pilot called door and the airport was behind the tail. Told the pilot to do a go around then made a couple 5's left. (Cathy was on the load behind the pilot) we exited and all landed on. Cathy takes you to altitude that is her job the rest is all you. Throw these guys under the bus not Cathy. Shouldn't have done the video though.

[pchapman 279]

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Cathy takes you to altitude that is her job the rest is all you.

When discussing personal responsibility, that's fine with me.

But she's the one with the big investment to lose, with a DZ next to a guarded WMD site. So she needs to be more active than most DZO's in stopping skydivers from being their (occasional) dumbass selves.

You gave an interesting example of spotting there. I would hope that any aircraft at a DZ like that would have a GPS (plus a pilot competent at spotting).

[jinlee 0]

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but it is also clear that the Airport Authority has a undisclosed agenda. The Airport Authority reminds me alot of the hillbillies in Deliverance.

If you take the time to study all the known airport access cases, one thing that stands out in those is that they all read verbatim. Like one of those call center script reading classes they all attended.

All airport sponsors have an agenda when it comes to not wanting skydivers on the airport. They all use and say that same stupid shit and tactics with users and the FAA.

All airport boards and sponsors act like and are the "good old boy's" club and if your not in the club you will get the "hillbillies in Deliverance" treatment. None of the actions of St. Mary's is a surprise, in fact many of their actions could have been expected and planned for had the proper actions been followed by the operator, thus giving the the dz the upper hand in any of it's on going access fight.

As it turned out though, some in the skydiving camp thought it would be cute to "test" the city and while at it, thumb their nose at the very agency they are depending on to help with winning the access case.... by conducting a number of well documented via the press, violations of FAR 105.23b. That is what has doomed them, those actions alone sealed their fate, the fact the navy is pissed off now too.... well as one wise old Jap once said "I fear all we have done is awaken the sleeping giant".

All the crap the city was pulling with special permits or what ever bullshit, should have been documented and calls to a lawyer and the ADO should have been on going for months, long before the cops showed up to revoke permission. Had the right steps and actions been taken by TJP owners and staff, this could have "maybe" been a victory for them pretty easy, depending on how the new PLA thing plays out.

From standing on the outside and only having the public record to go by, in reading all, this is a classic example of: "how not to win your airport access case during a time of importance pending standards changes to on airport landing areas".

It's not like this information is not out there and or a paid consultant for all members to seek strong advice and guidance in dealing with these kind of issues, only a fool would not heed his advice and make every effort work with in the system to fix the problem.

I understand all the fucking games they play and all that bullshit about how it hurts her business... yadda yadda yadda. You know what, how's her fucking business now?

If it was worth fighting for that location as much she made a stink about it , then playing by the rules of the fight should have been the plan from day one, there is that paid consultant guy who will help formulate a plan and help you with guidance.... many others have proven that advice and guidance to be reliable and successful if followed.

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The Airport Authority reminds me alot of the hillbillies in Deliverance.

TJP actions are unprofessional to say the least and could harm the industry on a national level.

Thanks grandpa, and it's easy to sit there and say, I told you so when you didn't inform anyone of anything.

Instead you attempted to bait me into a conversation for your own self gratification. Remember this comment

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Can you please provide us with more info on how this airport access funding works?

I told you I didn't know and you appeared to be the expert. Quite cheap on your part honestly. Now tell us all again how you told all of us so.

yadda yadda yadda, nothing is more worthless than saying I told you so.... when you didn't gramps.