Business end of flying jumpers. How much profit is there in flying jumpers?

[BravestDog 0]

Starting this out with some general questions about the business aspect of flying jumpers for profit and hope it will evolve and cover more. The art of making a profit from the skydiving business.

Let's take for example Mike Mullins Super King Air at $26 per person or the Twin Otter at the Parachute Center in Lodi, CA at $15 per person.

From the King Air website, it says it cost $26 to altitude and takes 7 minutes.

"14 jumpers to 14,000' in 7 minutes under standard conditions"

So how much does it cost to operate a Super King Air and a Twin Otter per hour and how does this relate to how many jumpers you can put inside the plane, get them to altitude, out the door, get back on the ground, and get the next load inside on under way. Does anyone know the math, time involved, and profits in this process?

I assume the best drop zones for profits are where the plane can load, take off, drop the load, descend, land and load as fast as possible. Have good weather to fly year round, keep the taxi and waiting time to a minimum. Are the drop zones located at West Tenessee Skydivng and the Parchute Center in Lodi like this?

Looking for comments on where the best drop zones or types of planes that qualify for profits and why, amount of profit, costs involved in operating a jump plane...?

Thanks in advance.

[Snowwhite 0]

I always loved Don Kirlins answer to this (He was the Owner of the World Free Fall Convention).

He would say, "I can tell anyone how to make a small fortune in the skydiving industry......


First, you start with a large fortune!"

skydiveTaylorville.org
freefallbeth@yahoo.com

[BravestDog 0]

So I assume that Don Kirlins worked most of his life in the Drop Zone business, and does not have much profit for all the work he's done? He may have covered his expenses, but there was nothing put in the bank for retirement?

[hokierower 0]

Use the search function. There's a spreadsheet on here showing the estimated costs per airframe.

[BravestDog 0]

I found this info:
Here is a break down of your jump ticket based on a small DZ, flying a C-182 with Continental O-470 series, 300 hours/year (2400 heads/year, 8 heads/hour or 4 heads/load) and going to 10K MSL.

->Firewall forward OH reserve ( engine, prop, mags, carb, gov, engine mount, start, gen/alt, exaust, bafflings and etc): $25000 / 1500 hours / 8 = $0.26;
->Typical annual costs: $2500 / 2400 = $1.04;
->Aircraft Insurance and liability: $5500 / 2400 = $2.08;
->Fuel per load (avg) 7gl x $5.50 / 4 = $9.62;
->Pilot: $10 / 4 = $2.5;
->Extras parts, oil changes, unscheduled maintenance and top OH: $15 p/h / 8 = $1.8;
->100 hours inspection: 12 hours x $65 x 3 / 2400 = $0.97;
->C-182 airframe depreciation: $5 / 8 = $0.62


Direct total cost (not including office expences, ground crew, rent, facilities, utilities, taxes, free beer and etc...) : $19.00

Each DZ is different. There are more efficient, low cost and/or high volume operations out there. There are shortcuts too.

here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4096994;search_string=cost%20per%20airframe;#4096994

[adamUK 3]

I can't speak for US dropzones but the UK ones make money to run the DZ from tandems and the regulars jump at cost or maybe even a small loss. The jump ticket price might not be an indicator of the costs of running a plane or DZ.

[davelepka 4]

I suggest that nobody respond any further to this post until the OP comes clean and fills out his profile.

Another poster was good enough to recall that the OP has very few posts and they all seem to be asking some loaded questions about jumping. He could be a reporter or lawyer mining for info, but either way, it's just not cool.

[5.samadhi 0]

why is it not cool that a reporter would be investigating the business end of skydiving?

He honestly seems like a beginner pilot looking to consider the possibility of owning a dropzone some day. But who knows...

[DougH 270]

Because a reporter, lawyer, etc should be open and upfront about who they really are.

We all should have the right to know who is asking questions. The reason why someone is asking a question is pretty damn important.

Context!

Some people may not want to feed information to an outsider, especially one that isn't upfront about their motives.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[adamUK 3]

Given the postings:

1) How quick to freefall.
2) What's neg G
3) How much money's in skydiving
4) How does a pilot get to the ground so quickly.

Maybe a tandem got hurt in the plane (I know of turbulence injuring pax in airliners) or had a near miss and he's a lawyer who's trying to pin it on the pilot/DZ flying negligently in order to achieve fast turnaround times to make a bit of money?

Any incidents out there anyone know of?

[davelepka 4]

Quote

He honestly seems like a beginner pilot looking to consider the possibility of owning a dropzone some day.

Really? He registered in 2003, and one of his recent posts was asking what a negative G was. What sort of beginner pilot doesn't know about a negative G, after being registered here for 9 years? Has he not flown or jumped in all that time? Even if not, what sort of person who has any asperations of becoming a pilot wouldn't know about a negative G?

Like Doug mentioned, if he was a reporter looking to do a positive piece on jumping, or an aspiring pilot looking for info, he would have been forthcoming with his identity or intentions. As it sits, he has been forthcoming with neither, and is asking very basic questions that anyone genuinely involved with the sport or flying for 9 years would certainly know the answers to.

It doesn't add up, and seeing the errors the media has made about the sport, and the damage that lawyers have done to the sport, it seems reasonable to be suspicious of 'unknows' asking these types of questions.

[BravestDog 0]

Davelepka, DougH, adamUK,

I was hoping to ask some simple questions regarding Skydiving and want people to stay on topic without making False Accusations, Speculation and Comments that are Off Topic especially if it involves me, which it has. I'm not here to be your friend or to be popular. I don't need to know and have no desire to know who you are. I'm interested in asking some questions and learning something. My questions are on topic and relative to the forum.

Would you politely remove your off topic posts to my questions before I contact the website administrator and have them do it for you? If that is necessary, then you will be wasting their time and my time because of YOUR inappropriate public behavior.

If I wish to remain anonymous, guess what, it's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS and it's probably a good idea. Ever hear of Identity Theft, Psychopaths, Sociopaths, Cyber Bullies, Mentally Ill Violent people who want to harm you etc? Guess what, they exist everywhere.

Your responses are Off Topic, Accusatory, Speculatory and you are saying this in a public forum. Amounts to inappropriate behavior.

If you feel the need to Speculate, Investigate, whatever...Use Private Messaging, your telephone and leave your responses out of my posts. I do not want you to post your responses to my questions if they are going to be off topic, accusatory and speculative.

[piisfish 140]

can we have Artistcalledian back please ?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[DougH 270]

I will politely remove my post after you politely tell us who you are and why you are asking these questions. Further, maybe you can ask more than one question at a time instead of spamming the forun with 10 threads at a time, this isn't a notepad designed especially for you and your little stream of consciousness web games.

Otherwise ... shut up and jump.

Hopefully after last rant the responses to your questions will come to a halt.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[airsport 0]

The prolific posters are somewhat paranoid here....

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

the damage that lawyers have done to the sport,

You callous, cockneyed cur. You have no idea the damage you skydivers have had to the practice of law.

[davelepka 4]

Quote

You callous, cockneyed cur. You have no idea the damage you skydivers have had to the practice of law

You are correct sir, I do not. As such, I would also not visit a lawyers online fourm in an attempt to gain info I intended to use to further damage the profession and industry as a whole.

My deepest apoligies to you and your co-workers.

[mr2mk1g 10]

Seems to be the same guy as in this warning:

http://www.dropzone.com/forum/Skydiving_C1/Gear_and_Rigging_F6/fmfelker@yahoo.com_P3029456/

As in the e-mail address FMFelker@yahoo.com is linked to the OP.

[davelepka 4]

Quote

Seems to be the same guy as in this warning:

http://www.dropzone.com/...@yahoo.com_P3029456/

As in the e-mail address FMFelker@yahoo.com is linked to the OP.

I did follow up on the idea that his full name is Fred Martin Feller, and there is indeed a lawyer by that name in Northern Cali. I'm inclined to believe that this is indeed 'Bravestdog'.

That said, the email listed is for FMFelker, which is different than FMFeller, so I'm not sure that this is the same guy who stole a rig. It would seem odd that a lawyer would steal a used rig, so just to avoid giving Bravestdog legitimate complaints that we're harming his character, let's leave that theft as 'unsolved' for now.

I'll stick to calling him a lawyer, and suggest that nobody feed him based on that alone (sorry Andy).

[piisfish 140]

Quote

Otherwise ... shut up and jump..

I suppose that you are addressing this message to the OP and not to me,...

I don't have time to jump much, too busy rigging

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[davelepka 4]

The plot thickens....

So what the fuck is the deal here pal? Someone was kind enough to point out this thread where a rig was stolen and showed up at a flea market in your area - http://www.dropzone.com/forum/Skydiving_C1/Gear_and_Rigging_F6/fmfelker@yahoo.com_P3029456/


I suggested that the email address was not a 'direct' match for your name, and that it was probably some other guy.

Then I get a PM from another poster who pointed me toward this thread http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=587207#587207 which you started and it states your name and the very same email address of the guy who stole that rig. The poster also said they found that you are very active in the flea market scene in your area, the same place that stolen rig was found for sale.

So now you have some explaining to do, because if there's one thing jumpers hate more than a lawyer, it's a theif. Either start explaining this odd coincidence, or delete your profile, because without a satisfactory explaination, you're not going to get anywhere on this forum anytime soon.

[JackC1 0]

Quote

Then I get a PM from another poster who pointed me toward this thread http://www.dropzone.com/...i?post=587207#587207 which you started and it states your name and the very same email address of the guy who stole that rig

Link broken

[davelepka 4]

I fixed the links.

[PhreeZone 20]

Quote

Would you politely remove your off topic posts to my questions before I contact the website administrator and have them do it for you? If that is necessary, then you will be wasting their time and my time because of YOUR inappropriate public behavior.

You will need to keep looking for assistance since this moderator has no intent of removing any posts thus far in these threads...

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

Quote

Would you politely remove your off topic posts to my questions before I contact the website administrator and have them do it for you? If that is necessary, then you will be wasting their time and my time because of YOUR inappropriate public behavior.

You will need to keep looking for assistance since this moderator has no intent of removing any posts thus far in these threads...

aha. the fix is in.