EP's with 2 pillow handles

[The111 1]

Warning to low-timers (even though I consider myself a low-timer too): do your EP's as you were trained.

My current rig has a pillow cutaway and a metal D reserve handle. My EP's are peel right, pull right, pull left.

I am considering switching to double pillows on my new rig. Reason: I have a bad back from a somewhat "headdown" (head low) reserve opening, and have been doing a lot of close proximity flying and the thoughts of snagging my metal D on something (someone) in freefall and having my reserve come out before I want it to (and hurting my bad back again) bother me. The concerns (cons) of switching to a pillow reserve are obvious: more effort and time needed to locate and pull the handle. If I do make this change, my EP's will change slightly. Should I:

a) peel right, pull right, peel left, pull left
b) peel right, peel left, pull right, pull left

There are cons to either method. In (a) I have to spend a second peeling my reserve handle after I am back in freefall (when time is very critical if I am low). In (b) if executed properly, I can peel the reserve handle away while still under the mal'd main (slower fallrate than post-cutaway freefall), but if I am too eager I could get my reserve out too early. The extra one second "peel" in freefall (a) guarantees me a properly sequenced breakaway and reserve deployment, but could theoretically hurt me if I am very low (which I shouldn't be).

I'm sort of leaning toward (a).

And if anyone has any issues with "changing" EP's, let me say that it's inevitable if I switch to a pillow. And I have successfully changed my EP's in the past. Did 2-handed procedure on jump #50, wasn't happy with how it worked out, retrained myself on 1-handed procedures (drilled the HELL out of them) and successfully used them on jump #214.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[Floats18 0]

What if the entry to freefall causes you to drop the peeled reserve handle (option B)...

It could float all over the place

--- and give them wings so they may fly free forever

DiverDriver in Training

[diablopilot 2]

Yeah, right at the endof the cable like the D ring would.

My take is change to whichever system makes you more comfortable, then touch your handles. Alot.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[uponone 0]

If you push from the top portion of the pillow, twist your wrist down and punch down towards your crotch then it will both peel and pull in one action. Don't peel both before pulling, you might accidently peel to hard and end up deploying your reserve before your main is away.

[GravityGirl 0]

Peel. Punch. Peel. Punch.

And it doesn't take a second to peel. The peel punch is almost one smooth move.

I honestly didn't feel the difference at that critical time. You just get the shit out when you need to.

I've had 5 on D rings and 3 on pillows.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[LawnDart21 0]

Quote

and have been doing a lot of close proximity flying and the thoughts of snagging my metal D on something (someone) in freefall and having my reserve come out before I want it to

I had the same thought a few years ago.......lol

Switched to a pillow reserve. A few months later I'm in a sit fly and a friend comes in to dock his feet on my thighs, comes in a little high, gets in my burble and ever so gently, his sneakers come down my lift webs........BAM I'm under an instant reserve at 8000ft with riser twists/line twists pinning my head to my chest and little tweety birds flying circles around my head.......lol.

When I (finally) landed, we measured how far my reserve pillow had moved. The bottom of the pillow was still firmly seated, and the top of the pillow rotated forward just 2 inches, but it was enough to pull the cable and pop the pin on the reserve.

I'm not saying dont switch, that was 1500 jumps ago, and I still prefer my pillow over a D-ring. Here's why:
1) when belly to earth, a pillow will float out, away from your body, which I feel, in a high speed mal makes finding it easier than a D-ring which tends to press up against ones body when belly to earth in a good arch.
2) A pillow will flex with the lift web. A D-ring will not. If you take a container that has had alot of jumps, you can pull out the reserve handle and see the "impression" that the hadle has made in the lift web. Is it still structurally sound? Sure, I just dont think putting any additional stress on a lift web is prudent. (edit to add, I have never ever ever heard of a lift web failing at the reserve handle point, this is just a personal observation/preference, that I dont like to see).
3) My EPS are grab each handle with one hand at the same time, peel up cutaway, pull down cutaway handle, peel up Reserve pillow, Pull down reserve pillow. I only have 2 cutaways, 1 intentional and one live, and its my prefered method.
4) You can't embrodier: PIMP HAND" on a D-ring, and my PIMP HAND be strong...............

--
My other ride is a RESERVE.

[FrogNog 1]

A related question: are you going to use an RSL?

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[The111 1]

No.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[piisfish 140]

Quote

a) peel right, pull right, peel left, pull left.

That's what I learnt at my ground course. It works

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[ScottyInAus 0]

Look, Grab, Look, Grab
Peel, Punch, Peel, Punch
ARCH!

Cheers,
Jason.

[phoenixlpr 0]

I would not do that. Once I mixed up the sequence , I was a student. You can feel the difference with the silver. You can put your fist into the D, so you don't have to hold it after use.

[tustinr 1]

Go with a) for all the reasons mentioned in the previous posts.

I have only jumped pillows since my first rig and on jump 99 had a high speed mal. The EPs weren't a problem - the only small snag I had was my reserve pillow somehow folded behind the left lift web and it took a second to find it and pull it back ! that was on a custom made Javelin. I now have an Icon and for those who have seen an Icon both pillows have a hard base and project out from the body so it shouldn't happen again.

I feel more comfortable doing freefly with a pillow for a reserve handle !

Rich

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Everything that happens to you in life is your teacher. The secret is to learn to sit at the feet of your life and be taught.

[goose491 0]

Go with a) Peel, Punch. Peel, Punch.

I would suggest it imprudent to move your focus back and forth like in option b. I don't think you should count on it taking more effort and time locate and pull the handle. If you've decided to chop, you should already have both your handles located. Truly, only keeping in mind that there must be a "Peel" action on both sides would be necessary.

disclaimer: I have not used the two pillow system. I jumped it a few times on borrowed gear, but not engaged it.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[davelepka 4]

How many times have you pulled the handle on your current pack job? Are you sure that you won't have a hard pull? Is it possible that the situation leading to your need to pull the handle may create a hard pull?

In any case, I can only imagine that my grip on a D ring will never be the limiting factor in how hard I can pull the handle. I can however, see my arms/chest applying more force that my hands can hold onto a pillow with. Not good.

How about this for a procedure: Peel and punch this idea for a soft handle out of your head, and throw it away.

[tso-d_chris 0]

I've never peeled before pulling my cutaway handle, after eight cutaways. If you pull the handle away from your body, and not straight towards your right foot, you should not have any problems with the Velcro not un-mating.

I think the low profile metal handles (available from Jump Shack) are a superior alternative to pillow reserve handles. It has a low profile, and a nice hole through which you can place a thumb. They are, in fact, a bit lower profile than a pillow handle.

[phoenixlpr 0]

Oh, anyway AFAK a soft reserve handle is not allowed in Finland.

[The111 1]

Quote

I think the low profile metal handles (available from Jump Shack) are a superior alternative to pillow reserve handles. It has a low profile, and a nice hole through which you can place a thumb. They are, in fact, a bit lower profile than a pillow handle.

Hmm, I like that idea. Are those what Scary Perry has on his low pull rig? (I'm assuming maybe you know him or have seen it since you live in DeLand).

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[outlawphx 1]

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If you push from the top portion of the pillow, twist your wrist down and punch down towards your crotch then it will both peel and pull in one action.

That's what I think about. I just dropped my rig off for a repack this weekend, and I practiced pulling like that. It was suprisingly easy.

[JohnMitchell 16]

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When I (finally) landed, we measured how far my reserve pillow had moved. The bottom of the pillow was still firmly seated, and the top of the pillow rotated forward just 2 inches, but it was enough to pull the cable and pop the pin on the reserve.

A d-ring reserve would have a few inches more slack. That might make a difference.

[moonglo 0]

YepDidn't have to use them, but I like the low profile D-rings.

[LawnDart21 0]

Quote

A d-ring reserve would have a few inches more slack. That might make a difference.

Yes, you are right. I remember talking with the manufacturer, and at the time, the reserve cable did not have any freedom of movement within the pillow, like how a D-ring will slide up and down the cable until it reaches the end. Newer versions of the reserve pillow allowed the cable some freedom of movement within the pillow, like a D-ring, however the range of movement is limited to the size of the pillow, ie, not very much, but some movement is better than none.

--
My other ride is a RESERVE.

[The111 1]

Has anyone ever made (or thought about) a handle which is a pillow with a "half-D" coming out of it? The half-D (metal) would go inside the velcro, so the handle would be as secure as a full D and would require the same force to pull as a full D (i.e. no peeling involved, no velcro on the handle). The pillow on the outside would present the benefits of a normal pillow handle (i.e. less snaggable).

It could also have the freedom of movement of a full D (as is being discussed above).

Thoughts on that idea?

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[tso-d_chris 0]

I know Perry well, but I haven't ever actually seen his infamous low pull rig. If I remember correctly he has had that handle on other rigs, though.

The first person I remember seeing with one was Jimmy Tranter, and he has had it on at least two different manufacturer's rigs.

[sundevil777 102]

Quote

Quote

I think the low profile metal handles (available from Jump Shack) are a superior alternative to pillow reserve handles. It has a low profile, and a nice hole through which you can place a thumb. They are, in fact, a bit lower profile than a pillow handle.

Hmm, I like that idea. Are those what Scary Perry has on his low pull rig? (I'm assuming maybe you know him or have seen it since you live in DeLand).

I think this is an example of the handle you mention. It is so much less obtrusive than the standard D-ring. I had no problem at all using it. As you can also see, I like using my opposable thumb for the cutaway handle also.

It looks strange on my rig because the cable is not in the housing (it had not been installed yet).

I bought mine from the good folks at Velocity Sports Equipment, manufacturer of the Infinity.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

Has anyone ever made (or thought about) a handle which is a pillow with a "half-D" coming out of it? The half-D (metal) would go inside the velcro, so the handle would be as secure as a full D and would require the same force to pull as a full D (i.e. no peeling involved, no velcro on the handle). The pillow on the outside would present the benefits of a normal pillow handle (i.e. less snaggable).

It could also have the freedom of movement of a full D (as is being discussed above).

Thoughts on that idea?

Yes. You just developed a nifty idea for a marketable invention, and published it in the public domain before applying for a patent.

Doh!!!