Why does customer service in skydiving suck?

[BIGUN 1,319]

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Sometimes the rigger may get some form of thank you for a save, but don't count on it (maybe I am just sour - 4 saves last year, - 3 saves this year in total got me two verbal thankyou's.)

What else would you like?

The rule has always been a bottle of the rigger's favorite.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Deyan 36]

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Sometimes the rigger may get some form of thank you for a save, but don't count on it (maybe I am just sour - 4 saves last year, - 3 saves this year in total got me two verbal thankyou's.)

What else would you like?

I think you've missed his point. Read it again.

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I see a disproportionately larger amount of complaints about rigging prices than about he AFF pricing.
Instructors get their full pay, and sometimes even get tipped. Riggers usually just get their pre-determined fee + some amount of suggestions of how the customer would really like their gear ready for this, and not the following weekend.

I think he doesn't expect much.....no bitching about his terms will be enough.

"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

[mjosparky 4]

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I think that the problem is that although skydiving is expensive, the margins are nowhere near as impressive as the price suggests :

For many years gear manufacturing companies were owned and operated by jumpers not “business people”. Their pricing did not reflect a realistic cost of producing the item. Most gear is made from materials that are petroleum based and the price has gone through the roof. That and the cost of labor make the price of gear pretty reasonable.

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how many of them are paying the actual list price ?

Very few pay MSRP, most get at least 20% off and many more than that. Most don’t have a clue what goes into producing a rig…..they don’t even bother to RTFM on how it works.

I don't even want to get started on rigging.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[danornan 79]

Depends a lot on your expectation.

I've been in the sport since the mid 80's and feel like I've had excellent service from all that I've had dealings with. It is a very tiny sport (small customer base) compared to many, with very small profit margins and seems like many customers have very large egos.

A difficult mix at best. Look at your situation and determine if you really could do it better for the money and if so, have at it.

I'm reminded of the joke in skydiving on how to make a million dollars and the answer is something like, start with 10 million.

Dano

[adamUK 3]

I remember a story about Aston Martin in the early days. A friend of one of the owners if he could only pay the cost of the car without any mark up and was quoted a price that was higher than the sticker price. The implication being that the company was run at a loss by enthusiasts who were in business to make cars not money.

Whenever I've bought gear I've always found customer service to be very good. No complaints here.

[Born2Late 0]

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I know I'm not the only one that has had terrible experiences with this. Let's not get into them but any ideas why customer service is so terrible in our sport?

Like anywhere else. I think you can find a thief or two in anything. You need to chose to deal w/the right people.

FWIW. I've had several dealings w/Chutingstar. I've always received better service than from other industries.

[Croc 0]

I am not directing this at you personally, but I have noticed that people who try to squeeze a nickel out of a dime and go with dealers working out of their mom's garage get burned and blame others rather than own up to trying to get a special deal because they themselves are special. You are not special.

Paragear, Chutingstar, dozens of deals, never a problem.

Again, not directed at any particular person, just the cheapskates.

"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

[billvon 2,998]

>I have noticed that people who try to squeeze a nickel out of a dime and go with
>dealers working out of their mom's garage get burned and blame others rather than
>own up to trying to get a special deal because they themselves are special.

Agreed.

The flipside is that once you get to know people, and have made a name for yourself, you often can get some very good deals. But if you then turn around and start complaining about this and that about a canopy that was sold to you far UNDER the manufacturer's price - well, that's pretty slimey too.

[demoknite 0]

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Sometimes the rigger may get some form of thank you for a save, but don't count on it (maybe I am just sour - 4 saves last year, - 3 saves this year in total got me two verbal thankyou's.)

What else would you like?

I think you've missed his point. Read it again.

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I see a disproportionately larger amount of complaints about rigging prices than about he AFF pricing.
Instructors get their full pay, and sometimes even get tipped. Riggers usually just get their pre-determined fee + some amount of suggestions of how the customer would really like their gear ready for this, and not the following weekend.

I think he doesn't expect much.....no bitching about his terms will be enough.

I, too, am a rigger and while I dont mind a thank you or bottle of something, I dont feel the need for anything more than the $ I charge.

[pms07 3]

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I know I'm not the only one that has had terrible experiences with this. Let's not get into them but any ideas why customer service is so terrible in our sport?

My experience with customer service in the skydiving community is much different than yours. As an example, I've recieved outstanding service from the following and have been buying gear from each for many many years;
Rigging Innovations
Performance Designs
L&B
Square1
ParaGear

And I can also name others that I deal with less frequently or only more recently. Maybe you are dealing with the wrong people...

[DSE 5]

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My experience with customer service in the skydiving community is much different than yours. As an example, I've recieved outstanding service from the following and have been buying gear from each for many many years;
Rigging Innovations
Performance Designs
L&B
Square1
ParaGear

And I can also name others that I deal with less frequently or only more recently. Maybe you are dealing with the wrong people...

My experiences with the above companies/manufacturers have been equally terrific.
I'd only add Chutingstar to that list.

[theonlyski 8]

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I'd only add Chutingstar to that list.

I try to buy as much as I can from Mike. My Vigil2, Optimum, Safire2, camera helmet + mounts, gear bag and a ton of little things.

Only dealer I know that responds to emails in the middle of the night.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[skypuppy 1]

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Skydiving used to be a sport........ it is now a “recreational activity”. Same thing happened to skiing a few years ago.

Welcome to “mainstream”.

Sparky

I would argue that it began as a recreational activity and evolved into a sport. How long had skydiving been around before skydivers began having skydiving competitions?

I would say you're showing a lack of knowledge. There have been skydiving competitions since the 1930's at least, and serious world championships began in the mid 1950's. There was a serious focus on competition skills at many dz's I've been to up until sometime in the late '80's, 90's I'd say... Not so much now.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[jcd11235 0]

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Skydiving used to be a sport........ it is now a “recreational activity”. Same thing happened to skiing a few years ago.

Welcome to “mainstream”.

Sparky

I would argue that it began as a recreational activity and evolved into a sport. How long had skydiving been around before skydivers began having skydiving competitions?

I would say you're showing a lack of knowledge. There have been skydiving competitions since the 1930's at least, and serious world championships began in the mid 1950's.

Like I said, it was an activity long before it was a competitive sport.

The modern history of the sport began in the late 18th century with Jacques Garnerin from France who performed display jumps from balloons flying over Europe. Later in the 19th century, women, who still number only between 15 and 20 percent among skydivers, began to appear on the scene. Kathe Paulus from Germany jumped professionally in Germany around the turn of the 20th century. Tiny Broadwick, another professional parachutist in the U.S., became the first woman to jump from an airplane in 1913 and the first to make a freefall in 1914. Source

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There was a serious focus on competition skills at many dz's I've been to up until sometime in the late '80's, 90's I'd say... Not so much now.

There still is a serious focus on competition skills at some drop zones. Additionally, some coaches travel to locations convenient for the teams they coach.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[keithbar 1]

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And for a personal pet peeve - Sometimes the rigger may get some form of thank you for a save, but don't count on it (maybe I am just sour - 4 saves last year, - 3 saves this year in total got me two verbal thankyou's.)

well by god that's just WRONG!! on a whole bunch of levels. if you have a save you OWE! riggers choice a steak dinner. or a bottle of said rigger brand. if you don't agree you just were not raised right as a skydiver fuck anyone who does not agree

i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .

[skypuppy 1]

Like I said, it was an activity long before it was a competitive sport.

The modern history of the sport began in the late 18th century with Jacques Garnerin from France who performed display jumps from balloons flying over Europe. Later in the 19th century, women, who still number only between 15 and 20 percent among skydivers, began to appear on the scene. Kathe Paulus from Germany jumped professionally in Germany around the turn of the 20th century. Tiny Broadwick, another professional parachutist in the U.S., became the first woman to jump from an airplane in 1913 and the first to make a freefall in 1914. Source
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We're probably arguing semantics here, but I would argue that skydiving was not so much an activity, but a 'display' in the ballooning period. It wasn't done for just something to do, but for money. There were some people, especially after the civil war and the crimean war, where balloons were used extensively for observing enemy troop movements, who would have done a 'lot' of jumps, but they were virtually all for money, not for something to do. For one thing most balloonists couldn't afford to fly period unless they were getting paid for it somehow.

Russians in the 20's and 30's (perhaps before, I'd have to look it up) had competitions to develop parachuting as a military branch of the gov't, and while the west was slower to develop, as I said, competitions began to occur around the early 30's at bigger airshows. And (many of) these people largely didn't actually 'train' unless they were in the military - they learned while they actually did parachute displays.

Skydiving did not really become a recreational activity until after the 2nd world war when access to military surplus equipment and skills learned with airborne units became relatively wide spread. But many of these people were still interested in competing as they developed the rudimentary skills we take for granted these days.

So to sum it up, parachuting wasn't a recreation, but a professional occupation, in the first century and a half for most practisioners, then a sport as people sought to develop skills and equipment, and later became something to do for the yuppies.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[tkhayes 348]

dropzones? Manufacturers? Aircraft suppliers? or all of the above?

I pride myself is some of the best customer service in the industry and take it pretty seriously every day.

So if you at a lousy service dropzone, go find another one. If another one dies not exist, then start one.

But my experience is there are plenty of very well run dropzones out there that deliver very good service

[Jumpdude 0]

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I know I'm not the only one that has had terrible experiences with this. Let's not get into them but any ideas why customer service is so terrible in our sport?

Bad customer service??? Skyride! (and their alias names and associates!) Just across the board doing a horrible injustice to our sport!

Refuse to Lose!!!
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org

[mjosparky 4]

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I'd only add Chutingstar to that list.

I try to buy as much as I can from Mike. My Vigil2, Optimum, Safire2, camera helmet + mounts, gear bag and a ton of little things.

Only dealer I know that responds to emails in the middle of the night.

That sucks, how many people are up in the middle of the night to read them.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[skydived19006 4]

Reply to no one specifically, but random observations.

Many DZs and Riggers are part timers. I for one work a 40 hour job, then spend the weekend at the DZ from early to late, generally getting home between 10:00 and 11:00 pm. I'll also generally have one or two evenings tied up with the business of running a DZ and maintaining an airplane, and we don't fly during the week. I also have two small children who don't get enough time from their father, and a wife who would prefer to have a husband.

For most small Cessna DZs the fun jumpers are paying cost with no margin at all, depending on how you run the numbers. How many of you (fun jumpers) do what you do and have a large segment of your work done at no profit/pay? Sure, I could add more amenities for the fun jumpers, but I'd need to push up the slot price by $5 to $10. At that point, they'd likely drive to another DZ that operates out of a T-hanger for the lower price slots. It's a bit of a catch 22.

Same situation for most riggers. They have a real job, generally spend a whole lot of time at the DZ, and do rigging in the evenings. Most fun jumpers primary concern is "I need it for the weekend, I have to go to a boogie!" One of the local riggers was relating a situation to me a few years ago. He had a guy come to him wanting his rig repacked for the coming weekend. Rigger told him that he couldn't do it. Skydiver refused to take no for an answer. Eventually, rigger said that he'd do it, but with a few conditions. He informed the skydiver that while he was packing, that skydiver would be running a load of laundry, while mowing his yard, and when that was done he had a list of groceries for him to go get. Once he convinced the skydiver that he was indeed absolutely serious, skydiver decided that he didn't actually need the pack as bad as he had first thought.

As others had indicated, a large segment of what we do is a cottage industry. Some guy doing it on the side out of his back bedroom. As with most things, you get what you pay for. You want good service, go to the multi-million dollar DZ operations, and stick with the multi-million dollar suppliers. Or as TJ indicated, buy an airplane, hang out a shingle, and dedicate yourself to great customer service in your new venture!

It is what it is.

Martin Myrtle
DZO

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[piisfish 140]

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Rigger told him that he couldn't do it. Skydiver refused to take no for an answer. Eventually, rigger said that he'd do it, but with a few conditions. He informed the skydiver that while he was packing, that skydiver would be running a load of laundry, while mowing his yard, and when that was done he had a list of groceries for him to go get. Once he convinced the skydiver that he was indeed absolutely serious, skydiver decided that he didn't actually need the pack as bad as he had first thought.

I need to remember that one

did the original poster/troller ever come back on this thread to explain what he doesn't like about the service he got ?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[mjosparky 4]

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Rigger told him that he couldn't do it. Skydiver refused to take no for an answer. Eventually, rigger said that he'd do it, but with a few conditions. He informed the skydiver that while he was packing, that skydiver would be running a load of laundry, while mowing his yard, and when that was done he had a list of groceries for him to go get. Once he convinced the skydiver that he was indeed absolutely serious, skydiver decided that he didn't actually need the pack as bad as he had first thought.

I need to remember that one

did the original poster/troller ever come back on this thread to explain what he doesn't like about the service he got ?

If you stepped on your dick that bad would you?

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[skydived19006 4]

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Rigger told him that he couldn't do it. Skydiver refused to take no for an answer. Eventually, rigger said that he'd do it, but with a few conditions. He informed the skydiver that while he was packing, that skydiver would be running a load of laundry, while mowing his yard, and when that was done he had a list of groceries for him to go get. Once he convinced the skydiver that he was indeed absolutely serious, skydiver decided that he didn't actually need the pack as bad as he had first thought.

I need to remember that one

did the original poster/troller ever come back on this thread to explain what he doesn't like about the service he got ?

If you stepped on your dick that bad would you?

Sparky

Maybe his question was sufficiently answered? I think it was.

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[3331 137]

I have received poor and sometimes rude service from one container manufacture and two jumpsuit manufactures, all are out of business today.

I have always received excellent service from http://jumpshack.com/ in Deland Florida.

I Jumped with the guys who invented Skydiving.

[theonlyski 8]

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I'd only add Chutingstar to that list.

I try to buy as much as I can from Mike. My Vigil2, Optimum, Safire2, camera helmet + mounts, gear bag and a ton of little things.

Only dealer I know that responds to emails in the middle of the night.

That sucks, how many people are up in the middle of the night to read them.

Sparky

Well, I was ordering the parts for my rig while I was deployed to Iraq, so... I was.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message