Very stable free fall form

[dthames 0]

While I was struggling to learn basic stability I tried to read and learn as much as I could, looking for help. I came across several stories of jumpers having stability problems and some of the stories had a common solution. Most were old stories. The solution was something like, “The instructor finally suggested I try to just get really big and make a large X……..and it worked!”

I thought, why did it take so long and why did they wait until there was almost no other option? It really made no sense that if that form would work, why not try it sooner. Not too many weeks later I ended up visiting another DZ. The only type of training jumps they did were static line. Not tandem, not AFF, just SL. I signed the waiver, showed my log book, and I was queried about the exit style and free fall form I had been trained on. At this point in time I had just started my SL free fall jumps. I had not been trained to use the big X and I continued to exit and work on stability with my arms 90/90 (boxman) form. A few jumps later, after studying some of the problems that I had with exits and after seeing the attached photo in the training room, I tried the big X right on exit. Bam, I was stable and steady in less than 2 seconds. I felt like a big leaf, sort of. As I got up some speed on the hill it was easy to change form to a more conventional free form style. I had the ticket.

From what I read it is fairly common for students to have exit stability problems on their early solo exits, and on hop and pops. With this form available I have felt very comfortable getting out and getting stable. Is this is form something that is overlooked in today’s training?

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[stratostar 5]

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Is this is form something that is overlooked in today’s training?

Yes & no. Depends on who is teaching and who they learned from on how to teach... if you never did SL and didn't have that rating and learned AFF and teach AFF, then you can't expect to see this type of training. If you find an SL school this is a more common style of training, and even these days the new schoolers are trying to move away from old school teachings, so your starting to see less and less of the old methods being used.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[popsjumper 2]

Dan, while what you are saying is true to some extent, there's more involved than just 'The Big X' on exit. You do have a good point as related to new jumpers and stable exit for S/L. Heck, some teach to hang from the strut of the 182 and let go in the Big X. The common problem with that is the arms being fully out and the legs being fully in....hence the back flip when you let go. So, there are pros and cons about any body position on exit.

That was, as stratostar mentioned, old-school teaching and yes, some still teach that...particularly in the S/L progression. It's nice for a new jumper but there's more to consider. Case in point.

Think about what you were taught for an emergency bail-out. I'm sure you were not taught to exit, wait for stability, and then pull.

You were probably taught to exit with your hand on the handle you will use, count 1 second and pull.

What you want to practice and get good at being able to exit with immediate stability and ready to pull BEFORE you get to tumbling at low altitude.


Damn. It's hard to take off the instructor hat.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[davelepka 4]

Consider for a minute, the arch and 'boxman' position. It requires several different part of your body to be correctly oriented, and if any one of them are not where they are supposed to be, you run into stability problems.

Look at the big X, it's a simple position, and somewhat easier for your brain to coordinate. Everything is flat and pointing straigh out, easy enough.

What you're missing is what happens when you take that big X to terminal. The stability is not so great, and your ability to 'fly' your body is zero. This is why the big X has fallen out of favor, if you expect to eventually freefall and jump with others, it's not the way you want to learn.

On top of that, try to avoid 'learning' things on the internet and then just trying them on skydives. You can get yourself into trouble doing that. If you haven't been specifically trained on one technique or another, consult an instructor before trying it in the sky.

[JohnMitchell 16]

There's not much arch in that spread X. Sure, it's fine for stable freefall with a big ole belly wart reserve weighting you down on the front. But for modern gear and esp. if your exit is a little wobbly, you need to ARCH with your hips forward to gain stability.

Now, if part of your problem is flat spins, a big X shape will slow you down slightly and maybe fix the asymmetry that's making you turn. There are better techniques, though, for that.
Remember that when that picture was drawn, passing a baton in freefall was the pinnacle achievement. We've learned a few things since then.

[dragon2 2]

The big X is obsolete, yes... For SL and the first couple freefall jumps after SL, we teach delta instead of boxman. The reason being, in a faster airplane like our caravan let alone our supervan, the boxman or any other position with your arms up will cause the staticline to hit your arm if you exit correctly. See attached pics for the difference.

While the delta position is not something you will use in later skydiving (well except a "reversed" version if you go wingsuiting ), it does seem that most students get the hang of this delta position quite well. It also seems easier to arch this way or at least harder to not arch but just bend your back.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[dthames 0]

I hope I didn’t come across like I think this form is a good belly flying form. That is not what I intended.

Pops said it is hard to take off the instructor’s hat. I think it equally hard to recall (for long) the actual feelings that many students have with those first few seconds of free fall. The feeling of not having control (I think) often lead to the swimming and other things that prevent proper control.

I recall during my first 5 and 10 second free falls that I as stable enough to stay belly to earth, but not comfortable enough to take charge and manage good control. I would wobble and slowly turn, but was timid to take charge. I had been doing a hanging exit and the boxman. I knew about the big-X and had not tried it. The DZ, I visited (two weekends) taught big-X and also did not teach/like the hanging exit. I hopped back off the step for the first time, went face down, felt like I was falling, wiggled for 2 seconds, and then got into the big-X. Suddenly I was very comfortable. I took that position on exit for just 3 or 4 seconds until I was falling faster and went into a boxman. I used that approach until I started with the coached jumps.

Sometime later I did my first jump in shorts and a tee-shirt. I was (again) not comfortable with my stability at first. The next time I jumped without a suit, I did the big-X right on exit and then went to a more “modern” style as my speed picked up. It was better to have that feeling of control.

Today I am not timid about exits and have been trying new things. But if today I wanted to solo exit at 5,000 in shorts, I would most likely get BIG because it is fun. And everyone says, Have Fun.

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[pchapman 279]

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I did the big-X right on exit and then went to a more “modern” style as my speed picked up.

I've been to a couple Canadian DZ's where a big X style arch is used for the first few seconds on PFF (AFF style) jumps. After some seconds "on the hill", when the student sees the horizon out infront and level with him, the student transitions to a box position before continuing with HARM checks etc.

So the big spread arch can be used as a very stable position, before moving on to one more suited to maneuvering.

[stratostar 5]

I still teach it in SL fjc's and train for a hanging exit, why fix what is not broken. You don't need to teach the relaxed frog modified till first 10 second....

Video of my FJC

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[riggerrob 643]

That diagram shows a stiff, straight-armed body position that was fashionable when I started jumping.

Hint: we have learned a lot since I started jumping.

John Mitchell was correct in saying that a belly-mounted reserve helps with stability in that old picture.

Now we teach that stability starts with the hips. Just today, I was teaching tandem students to arch like banananananas ???? I never could spell that word???

Another way to think of the freefall arch is like a badminton birdy, with a big, rounded belly as the ball. Then your arms and legs become the feathers on the badminton birdy.

Whether your knees and elbows are bent becomes a minor variation.