tdog 0 #1 May 18, 2012 I had a friend send photos on facebook of the explosives expert opening and disassembling her rig, with a photo of the rig being stuffed (parachutes out) in clear bags and being taken away for inspection... The skydiver was knowledgeable about the TSA rules, had the letters, cypres card, and even a FAA parachute rigger certification card she showed the TSA. It appears they did not follow the http://www.uspa.org/Portals/0/Downloads/Other_TSAletter.pdf. I was not there, I don't know if fuel was put on the fire or anything, but it appears she asked for supervisors, et al - and she was denied by the explosives expert until she raised a stink. She was eventually told by a TSA manager that at O'Hare that you should not try to carry on a rig at that airport. Apparently the USPA (Randy) has already been told and is working with the TSA - but until that happens, just FYI, this airport is not skydiver friendly. (Or in BASE jumping terms, "the object is hot.") Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 806 #2 May 18, 2012 I would be in custody. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinciflies 0 #3 May 18, 2012 Quote just FYI, this airport is not skydiver friendly. (Or in BASE jumping terms, "the object is hot.") I have taken a rig through O'Hare numerous times and this is either not true, or is a massive generalization. The TSA can be dicks, and some individuals make them 100 times worse. There must be a lot of rigs coming through O'Hare around the time of Summerfest and the TSA guys I have spoken to there certainly at least recognized a skydiving system and were good about not touching it. Have you considered the possibility that your friend is not an airport-friendly skydiver? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #4 May 18, 2012 QuoteQuote just FYI, this airport is not skydiver friendly. (Or in BASE jumping terms, "the object is hot.") I have taken a rig through O'Hare numerous times and this is either not true, or is a massive generalization. The TSA can be dicks, and some individuals make them 100 times worse. There must be a lot of rigs coming through O'Hare around the time of Summerfest and the TSA guys I have spoken to there certainly at least recognized a skydiving system and were good about not touching it. Have you considered the possibility that your friend is not an airport-friendly skydiver? The friend in question is a very well traveled professional skydiver who doesn't come across as a douche. If she had issues, anyone can.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildcard451 0 #5 May 18, 2012 Quote I would be in custody. This... Damn near happened in MCO once when the TSA idiot tried to pick up my rig by the (soft) reserve handle. I think my screaming at her is what did it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,371 #6 May 18, 2012 Hi tdog, I highly recommend that she develop & submit a claim for all costs to the TSA. And with copies to each of her US senators & congressman. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #7 May 18, 2012 Tip for traveling - Wrap and tie your chest strap tightly through your D-ring or over your soft handle to keep that from happening again. I've flown dozens of times with my rig. My experience is that trouble starts when some TSA person considers themselves "an expert." In SEA not too long ago, one TSA agent insisted she needed to open Vskydiver's reserve because she could see in the x-ray the pocket where the "parachute knife goes, just like the army chutes" she claimed to know so much about. Man, I had to do some smooth talking with the Vigil card to show her what was what. Oh, and never say "explosive cutter" when discussing your AAD. It's an electronic cutter, got it? That part about pointing to the reserve seal and saying it was put there by an FAA rigger helps too. Makes it sound all official and $hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,456 #8 May 18, 2012 Yep, that sounds reasonable. And if it happens to anyone else, you might want to ask some random traveler to officially witness what's going on if you can, since you're not allowed to take pictures of TSA's wonderful security operations. Just saying out loud "If anyone has the time to witness TSA searching my skydiving gear I'd really appreciate it." There are enough disenchanted travelers that I'll bet someone will come forward. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #9 May 18, 2012 QuoteJust saying out loud "If anyone has the time to witness TSA searching my skydiving gear I'd really appreciate it." There are enough disenchanted travelers that I'll bet someone will come forward. Nice idea. I think there could be a few others standing around that are fed up with the TSA. I wonder if a move like that would be seen as a threat or harassment by the goon squad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,456 #10 May 18, 2012 Very possibly; but then you react to that as it happens. Just make it clear that you know that you're not allowed to film, and that you just want, for both of your protection, to validate what is happening, since it looks like you're going to miss your flight and/or lose your gear. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #11 May 18, 2012 Sounds like it was a hellacious experience end-to-end (from all the comments I read on Facebook). I'm really hopeful this was just an isolated incident and really doesn't represent a new "policy" on the part of O'Hare - as one of the nation's busiest airports, changes there might represent a precedent for other airports as well. One thing that did strike me as an area where the jumper might facilitate communication is in talking about "what's in there" (which is apparently one of the questions asked by the explosives expert). She said she referred to the brand name/model of the canopies, which wasn't meaningful to him at all (and I wouldn't expect those to mean anything to anyone outside the industry). My recommendation would be to keep it generic as in "This is a skydiving rig. That's my main parachute, that's my backup parachute," which are terms that those who don't skydive can understand. This is not meant to be a "blame the victim" type of statement, more of an opportunity for all of us to make sure that we talk about the gear in a way that someone other than a person involved in the sport can understand."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3331 137 #12 May 18, 2012 This is the picture on Facebook.I Jumped with the guys who invented Skydiving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wayneflorida 0 #13 May 18, 2012 Why the explosives expert? Did TSA swab the gear and test positive for explosives? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #14 May 18, 2012 QuoteDid TSA swab the gear and test positive for explosives? Mine tests positive almost every time they swab it. It's probably from the various chemicals on my hands.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #15 May 18, 2012 QuoteShe said she referred to the brand name/model of the canopies, which wasn't meaningful... It could be very meaningful, especially if you say you've got a Sabre, or Stilleto, or Nitro, or Vengeance...People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #16 May 18, 2012 Quote Quote She said she referred to the brand name/model of the canopies, which wasn't meaningful... It could be very meaningful, especially if you say you've got a Sabre, or Stilleto, or Nitro, or Vengeance... Hah, good point. And in this case the word "Katana" may have caused some concern. "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Inspired 0 #17 May 18, 2012 Could it be that the TSA guys are just a little bit edgy with the NATO summit in town this weekend? I hear there are even fighter jets flying over the city already. Not a good weekend to expect their best behaviour. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,456 #18 May 18, 2012 That is a truly excellent point. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
evanderm 0 #19 May 18, 2012 Quote[...snip] since you're not allowed to take pictures of TSA's wonderful security operations. [...] The TSA does not actually forbit photography or filming Quoteas long as the screening process is not interfered with or slowed down. We do ask you to not film or take pictures of the monitors. Source: http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/taking_pictures.shtm There may be local laws, ordinances, or airport policies in effect that will prohibit photography though. I recommend reading some of the threads on this sub-forum of Flyertalk.com if you're looking to find people passionate about disliking the TSA. But I gather that's more a bonfire topic so as not to stray I will leave it at that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy0689 0 #20 May 21, 2012 And has anyone seen this? Still at their mercy.Andy I'll believe it when I see it on YouTube! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Psychonaut 0 #21 May 21, 2012 QuoteAnd has anyone seen this? Still at their mercy. This was shown to the TSA agent, and he replied 'I don't care what that says, you're not getting on the plane with the rig.' This is where society crumbles, when you aren't going to follow your own rules.Stay high pull low Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy0689 0 #22 May 21, 2012 My bad. I just opened the pdf link in the thread opener and saw the letter. I haven't looked at the letter in a long time and didn't realize it's the same as what's on the website. I guess, just like everywhere else, you'll run into a-holes who have a point to make. Power trip....Andy I'll believe it when I see it on YouTube! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinciflies 0 #23 May 21, 2012 Quote Oh, and never say "explosive cutter" when discussing your AAD. It's an electronic cutter, got it? I take this one stage further and avoid saying cutter/cutting. I explain that the AAD "releases" the reserve parachute in the event of an emergency. All mentions of knives, cutters, explosives etc are avoided! It has worked for me on three continents so far! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #24 May 21, 2012 Quote I take this one stage further and avoid saying cutter/cutting. I explain that the AAD "releases" the reserve parachute in the event of an emergency. Nice idea. I'll start saying "electronically releases". You know, I actually got Vskydiver's hook knife past the TSA inspector and on the plane by calling it a "string cutter." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinciflies 0 #25 May 21, 2012 Quote You know, I actually got Vskydiver's hook knife past the TSA inspector and on the plane by calling it a "string cutter." LOL - nice work! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
