Gear checks

[skyturtle 0]

Why arent gear checks mandatory at US dropzones? I know a lot of people have their friends check them out but why isnt it in the rule book? (posted by a very ill informed foreign jumper - so apologies if i'm way off the mark)

[Arvoitus 1]

Outside UK, are gears checks mandatory in any other place?

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[skydiverek 63]

How is it in the UK? Solo? Tandem?

[samlee 0]

In the UK EVERYONE needs a gear check before boarding the plane:

- students get checked by instructors
- A licence and above can be checked by anyone with JM1 (Jump Master qualification which includes flight line check training) and A licence also require a visual AAD check to confirm the AAD is turned on and set correctly
- Tandems need to be checked by a TI (or someone familiar with the systems?)

All checks and confirmed usually by a signature from the person who checked you, or by signing for yourself to confirm you've been checked (apart from students obviously).

[RMK 3]

Why would you wish it to be a mandatory rule? Of course if it makes you feel comfortable, anyone would oblige to give you a gear check.

I regard our UK rule-imposed flight line check as superfluous. As the skydiver, you are responsible for the gear – you’re the one jumping it. Personally checking everything myself gives me far more comfort than grabbing someone randomly when “in the pen” to have a look. Usually it’s the opposite, as I know everything is perfect to my liking, then some random “jobsworth” takes it upon himself to open my flaps and touch/move my pins.

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[skyturtle 0]

Hence why I was taught you ask people if they want pin checks. Just thought it cant be a bad idea, they take so little time, most of the time involve very minimal touching of another persons gear and insure your ready to leave when your getting in the plane regardless of circumstances. There was a pic in the mag of a 3 ring loop that had been caught worn through (i think in the plane), just figured finding stuff like this before you are in the air should be a priority. As always i know nothing and am merely curious.

[skybytch 273]

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Why arent gear checks mandatory at US dropzones?

Because US jumpers chafe loudly at any attempt to regulate their activities. Unless said activity is sexy or cool.

[nigel99 472]

US skydiving is very light on rules and there is alot of resistance to ANY change in the status quo.

I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand the Australian/British approach 'feels' safer, and it certainly costs alot more. But the reality is US fatalities are on par with the rest of the world (theres certainly not much if any difference)

I like people checking my gear, but have stopped asking random jumpers since an AFF instructor tried to pincheck my poptop... Now I am happier doing it myself.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[skyjumpenfool 2]

I've found this to be more of a "cultural" issue. I seems to change from DZ to DZ. As stated above, It's my gear, my responsability.

Students... different issue. But isn't that where we can change the culture?

A student came up to me in the boarding area a couple weekends ago and pointed out that my RSL was unattached. I praised him for being diligant and said thank you so that all the other students could hear. I later explained why it was unclipped and stowed but again praised him for catching it.

Sometimes changing the culture is difficult. Sometimes.... not so much.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[Olmed 0]

As a student it was a secure feeling to have someone else check your gear. Now I prefer to check myself.

But I think organized loads is a good thing!

[popsjumper 2]

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I like people checking my gear, but have stopped asking random jumpers since an AFF instructor tried to pincheck my poptop... Now I am happier doing it myself.

^THIS.
In the U.S., not even AFFIs can be trusted to know WTF they are doing.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[airtwardo 7]

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I like people checking my gear, but have stopped asking random jumpers since an AFF instructor tried to pincheck my poptop... Now I am happier doing it myself.

^THIS.
In the U.S., not even AFFIs can be trusted to know WTF they are doing.

I'm with ya on that one...

For sport jumps~
I check my pins prior to putting the rig on, unless I do something that would cause be to believe something has changed prior to exit, I'd just as soon others leave 'my' rig alone.

For Demos~
Usually have a ton of 'junk' hanging on me along with the rig, don't mind someone I've jumped with for years, wearing the same type of system, and knowing what exactly to look for - double checking me.


Not advocating that for everyone, just a personal choice that's worked for me...so far.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[rehmwa 2]

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I'd just as soon others leave 'my' rig alone.

me too -

HOWEVER, I'm always grateful when they offer; or notice something and bring it to my attention

I'll always ask before touching a rig - but looking is free

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[demoknite 0]

As a former UK jumper, I too, have mixed feelings. At the majority of the DZs I jumped at it was more or less a courtesy "do you have your helmet and goggles? CYPRES on? Alti set to 0? Pilot chute cocked with a red strip? Happy with your top pin?. All done without touching. More of a BPA/CCI ass check really.
In the US, I always look at people on the plane to make sure that they have legs straps and the chest strap is done correctly. So at the very least if anything goes wrong at least they are in the harness. But I dont feel that we all need to be doing JMPIs like we are the military.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Why arent gear checks mandatory at US dropzones? I know a lot of people have their friends check them out but why isnt it in the rule book? (posted by a very ill informed foreign jumper - so apologies if i'm way off the mark)

Skydivers can't consistently close each others main-flaps protecting their pins. I don't know why this is, but quit getting pin checks from other skydivers after I noticed that video footage following one was likely to show the main-flap with the tuck tab flapping in the breeze while video without a preceding pin check didn't yield that problem.

Lots of skydivers rely on brute strength to close their rigs instead of trying for mechanical advantage. When they're short on upper body strength they compensate with loose closing loops.

Lots of skydivers these days are building vertical formations and flying around each other like ferris wheels where the lower head-up flyers have wind blowing up their backs past their bridle.

All together that's a perfect storm for premature deployments at 140+ MPH below another jumper and fine argument for pin checks to remain optional.

[mjosparky 4]

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I like people checking my gear, but have stopped asking random jumpers since an AFF instructor tried to pincheck my poptop... Now I am happier doing it myself.

^THIS.
In the U.S., not even AFFIs can be trusted to know WTF they are doing.

+1

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[theonlyski 8]

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For sport jumps~
I check my pins prior to putting the rig on, unless I do something that would cause be to believe something has changed prior to exit, I'd just as soon others leave 'my' rig alone.

Same here, I can reach back and check my own main pin... If something feels 'wrong' I'll ask someone on the load I trust to check it.

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For Demos~
Usually have a ton of 'junk' hanging on me along with the rig, don't mind someone I've jumped with for years, wearing the same type of system, and knowing what exactly to look for - double checking me.

Ever get those new connector straps worked up?

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[JohnMitchell 16]

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I'd just as soon others leave 'my' rig alone.

me too -

HOWEVER, I'm always grateful when they offer; or notice something and bring it to my attention

I'll always ask before touching a rig - but looking is free

I'm pretty good at checking my own stuff, but don't mind a once over by someone who knows what they're doing.

I keep my own eyes moving but always ask before I mess with someone else's rig. I've caught 3 chest straps on the plane and one on the ground. It's the jumpmaster in me, it never quits.

[kawisixer01 0]

I religiously check my gear three times before a jump. Before I put it on, while walking to the plane, and when getting ready on jump run. I do the typical 3 checks of 3 things. As others say, I am always moving my eyes around looking at other people's gear and bring up anything of concern, and being a coach that is a necessity for handling students. I think "requiring" gear checks with a "sign off" is a bit absurd and over bearing. Is it something people should be doing for each other? absolutely. But I can throw out one example of someone "fixing" a riser cover and tucking it in the wrong spot on someones gear for them that directly resulted in a cut away. Unless you are familiar with all models of gear you best leave your hands off of it.

[JohnMitchell 16]

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But I can throw out one example of someone "fixing" a riser cover and tucking it in the wrong spot on someones gear for them that directly resulted in a cut away. Unless you are familiar with all models of gear you best leave your hands off of it.

I know of a fatality caused by one student "fixing" the gear of another student prior to the jump. Even so, the jumpmaster should have caught it on the gear check, but didn't .

I jumped pull-out rigs for years. A lot of people didn't even really know what they were checking on my gear. . . "Hey, your curved pin's all straight!"

[Airman1270 0]

...I've found this to be more of a "cultural" issue. I seems to change from DZ to DZ...
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Ah, yes. 1985. Newbie, recent graduate at another DZ starting to jump at a "private club" DZ close to home.

Asked experienced guy for pin check. Was told I must learn to "take care of myself." Confused, wrote brief note to USPA asking for advice. (Didn't want to cause trouble - just wanted to know the best way to handle this.)

No reply. Life goes on. Two months later my letter is published in PARACHUTIST. Surprise!

Club is pissed. Banned "for life" at that DZ. (Long Island Skydivers.)

The funny part is meeting some of the guys five years later at a boogie. They STILL wouldn't talk to me.

Cheers,
Jon S.

[popsjumper 2]

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...but don't mind a once over by someone who knows what they're doing.

Key point!
Be careful just who you ask to give you a gear check. Too many have little clue on just what they are looking at and looking for.

Case in point with respect to teaching students:

Part of their A-license sign=off is checking gear for another jumper.

Here's what I do:
I'll tell them about it and teach them about it.

Then I'll give them a few days to forget what I taught them.

Out of the blue, I'll put on a rig that I have messed up in many different ways and go to them and say, "Pretend you are a Coach or an Instructor. Give me a gear check Coach! I'm ready to SKYDIVE!"

Inevitably, they forget things, they miss things and they get it wrong in many different ways.

Then I tell them, "Thanks, dude, You just killed me."

When I tell them what they missed and how it could affect my survivability it kinda drives the point home for proper gear checks.

Pertinent points:
- Develop a systematic procedure
- Know what you are looking for
- Know what is correct and what is incorrect
- Understand that just because you look at it doesn't mean that you actually see it.
- Make the jumper do the corrections. It reinforces the process or doing it properly in the first place.

Unfortunately, few DZs have examples of all the different types of gear out here and we only get practice on what we have. Sometimes jumpers will come in with different systems and will let us teach our students about that particular type.

It would be a good thing for each of us to be observant. When those different systems are available, ask the owner to show you exactly how it works and how to check it.

Fortunately at our DZ, we have Chutingstar Rigging loft on site and the riggers will often let us observe while they do gear maintenance, repairs and reserve packing on all the different types of gear they get in.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239