How do you decide which advice to listen to?

[skybytch 273]

I'm confused. There's this really nice couple that I know. Both of them have asked lots of questions and did a canopy control course and are flying reasonable canopies for their experience level, but both of them have had GoPro's on their helmets since they had about 100 jumps. She removed it after I gave her shit about it a month or so ago, but it's back on there now.

Why would someone listen to and follow the advice and recommendations of USPA and of more experienced jumpers on one area of skydiving - like canopy choice - but completely ignore recommendations and advice when it comes to another area - like putting a GoPro on at 100 jumps?

[davelepka 4]

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Why would someone listen to and follow the advice and recommendations of USPA and of more experienced jumpers on one area of skydiving - like canopy choice - but completely ignore recommendations and advice when it comes to another area - like putting a GoPro on at 100 jumps?

Because poor canopy choice has led to numerous and highly publicized incidents resuting in death or serious injury. To date, a GoPro has not.

Also, flying a fast canopy, or any canopy, puts the user directly in the middle of the risk. The speed and altitude are easily apparent to the user, and this invokes fear and self-preservation responses. This is why many people swear they'll never swoop or even fly a fast canopy.

A camera, on the other hand, is fairly benign until something goes wrong. Until it creates a problem, it's actually an asset, providing fun videos for all to see. If a camera presented a real and tangible risk to your health or welfare on every jump, like coming in fast on a small canopy, fewer people would jump them.

I would bet that the jumper in question, if the GoPro led to a loss of altitude awareness or snagged part of her canopy on deployment, would stop jumping a camera immediately and not reutrn to camera flying. Once the risk was apparent to her from personal expereince, it won't seem like so much fun anymore.

[JackC1 0]

Because the advice on cameras seems pedantic and irrelevant as all it does is sit there and do it's thing and most people have never been bitten by a camera. Whereas the advice on canopy choice seems logical and sensible as most people have face-planted a landing or two and know how much they can hurt.

[DiverMike 5]

I also have a little over a hundred jumps, but keep my GoPro in my equipment bag and will until 200 jumps. I don't want to be 'that skydiver' who represents themselves as having a higher skill level than they do. When I see someone with a camera, I assume they have at least 200 jumps.

I've not fully understood why it isn't a BSR, as many dropzones treat it as such.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[skybytch 273]

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I've not fully understood why it isn't a BSR

That's an excellent question to ask your USPA directors...

[trigger 0]

As with all advice, at the end of the day it's just an opinion and its generally up to the OP to decide wether the advice is good or bad and wether they should act on it or not.

Rules, like laws imo are usually there for a good reason and on the whole can be/should be treated as good advice and heeded to.

As a side note when giving advice i think it helps if one can back the advice up with good reason.

.CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

[wildcard451 0]

Simple. You ask around til you hear the advice that tells you it is ok to do what you wanted to in the first place.

[kd5xb 1]

Doesn't it seem like EVERYBODY today wants to fly a camera?

I started jumping with an 8MM movie camera on my helmet at about 60 jumps. Today, I think that was a stupid mistake I made, and I won't jump with one now. I may NEVER jump with a camera again, it just isn't in my list of priorities, and it's too big of a distraction at my skill level. The only exception might be one like http://www.hobby-lobby.com/video_camera.htm or http://www.hobby-lobby.com/flycamone_eco_v2_532847_prd1.htm?pSearchQueryId=1663259 but ONLY if I could forget it was there. Not likely.

But I sure would like to show my friends and family just what happens up there. I just don't want to do so bad enough to risk injury or worse. Guess I've turned a very conservative streak as I've gotten older.

I'm a jumper. Even though I don't always have money for jumps, and may not ever own a rig again, I'll always be a jumper.

[Rigless 0]

Problem is, most rule makers make out things to be more complicated than they really are..

This gets into the psyche and people actually start believing it.

No, it's not that much of a distraction and no, it's not that much of a snag hazard unless you jump something what Norman Kent jumps..

100 to 200 jumps is not a big difference when it comes to perception and abilities for most people.

Stop being delusional..

"All limits are self imposed." Icarus

[popsjumper 2]

Rigless (above) gave you your bottom-line answer...

Some people are self-centered enough to think:
1 - rules don't apply to them.
2 - it hasn't happened t me yet so it must be ok.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Rigless 0]

Oh yeh, I see that those rules are getting you all lot far when the most BS that's happening is here

"All limits are self imposed." Icarus

[skybytch 273]

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No, it's not that much of a distraction and no, it's not that much of a snag hazard unless you jump something what Norman Kent jumps..

Oh wow, thanks for clearing that up for me. You're right, there is no distraction involved in flying a camera, all those people with thousands of jumps who say they were distracted by a camera are just losers who shouldn't be skydiving.

How could I have been so wrong for all these years?!?

[jrjny 0]

don't worry - the pros are killing themselves swooping ;-)

too bad we never have any final moments footage...

[maxwellman23 0]

She wants what she wants and no reasoning can change that if she has already decided.

spelling edit

I am ALIVE!

[billvon 3,006]

>No, it's not that much of a distraction and no, it's not that much of a snag hazard >unless you jump something what Norman Kent jumps..

Gonna call bullshit on that one. Spot has a list of dozens of people who thought the above - and discovered they were very, very wrong. (I was one of them.)

[wildcard451 0]

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don't worry - the pros are killing themselves swooping ;-)

too bad we never have any final moments footage...

Yeah. Real funny. Go fuck yourself.

[billvon 3,006]

Your one warning. Cut it out.

[wildcard451 0]

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Your one warning. Cut it out.

What? Someone getting a kick out of people dying? And mine's the bad comment? Fair enough.



Sorry, just really got to me.

[DiverMike 5]

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Someone getting a kick out of people dying?

That was strictly your interpretation of the original poster's comment. I interpreted it as too many experienced skydivers think it can't happen to them and it isn't part of their possible reality. The more real the possibility of death becomes, the more likely people will take steps to avoid it. Did you ever have to watch movies in Driver's Ed in high school showing automobile fatalities?

I may be giving the benefit of the doubt to the OP, and if the OP derives any entertainment out of watching people die, I agree whole heartedly with your assessment.

Too many good people are dying and/or breaking themselves by swooping, and I bet every single one of them didn't think it would happen to them.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[piisfish 140]

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but both of them have had GoPro's on their helmets since they had about 100 jumps. She removed it after I gave her shit about it a month or so ago, but it's back on there now.

well she has 1 month experience more than when you gave her shit. Plus her husband needs video to debrief his jump, doesn't he ?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[skybytch 273]

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I may be giving the benefit of the doubt to the OP, and if the OP derives any entertainment out of watching people die, I agree whole heartedly with your assessment.

He wasn't replying to me. If I liked watching people die, I wouldn't bother saying something when they are taking risks that they may not have the experience to survive.

I will say that the headache derived from beating one's head against brick walls may be a good enough reason to stop giving a shit.

[Scrumpot 1]

Glad he fell on that sword. ...Actually iterated the sentiment of not only just himself with that one, I can assure you.

To the poster he was replying to... Actually my friend, unfortunately "we" do!

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[TKoontz 0]

From my experience, this comes from a lack of education to the new jumpers. I was in this category and had never been told that a GoPro was a bad idea until I came to these forums asking advice, got a bit of a talking to for that one lol

During AFF and getting your A and subsequent mentoring, you're told, "Don't do X, it could lead to ramification Y which leads to possibility Z". Students learn through this and various other methods. But with cameras, all I had heard until the forums dropped some knowledge my way was, "Don't jump a camera until 200 jumps...because". Followed by a flimsy explanation that sometimes used distraction as a justification. Perhaps with more concrete examples that new jumpers are used to, the lesson could sink in better?

Find your peace, though the world around you burns

[champu 1]

Most inexperienced I-just-turn-my-gopro-on-and-forget-it video isn't worth watching anyway.

Don't get me wrong, they're great little cameras and if you have a particular shot you're after they can be the right tool for the job, but some people are seriously just wasting re-write cycles on their SD card.

[TKoontz 0]

Agreed. Watching the ground slowly get bigger from the point of view of a solo belly is unbelievably boring. Back when I used mine, it was only on jumps with others so we could review making points, or show our instructors to get feedback on flying and landing, and in a couple of cases, correcting bad habits while under canopy that had previously been missed.

However, I was commenting on new ways to get new jumpers such as myself to understand the dangers of cameras instead of looking at them as just an attach and forget piece of equipment that's innaccessible until a certain number of jumps.

Find your peace, though the world around you burns