adamqbishop 6 #1 April 5, 2012 Fron Danny James Koon SAVE THE POND SAVE THE POND!!!! This just in... They are planning on filling in the swoop pond with dirt at Elsinore. We have to stop this from happening*** Any suggestions?? — with Lelo Mras and 5 othe What Can We Do?Faster, Faster, Faster Till the Thrill of Speed Overcomes the Fear of Death Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 150 #2 April 5, 2012 QuoteWhat Can We Do? Upsize?.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnay 0 #3 April 5, 2012 Paint a blue rectangle? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #4 April 5, 2012 >What Can We Do? Stop the deaths and injuries from swooping. That will go a long way towards convincing DZO's that the pond isn't a liability. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheBachelor 5 #5 April 5, 2012 Quote>What Can We Do? Stop the deaths and injuries from swooping. That will go a long way towards convincing DZO's that the pond isn't a liability. Well said.There are battered women? I've been eating 'em plain all of these years... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinciflies 0 #6 April 5, 2012 Quote>What Can We Do? Stop the deaths and injuries from swooping. That will go a long way towards convincing DZO's that the pond isn't a liability. Do we know that this is due to liability issues as opposed to, say, upkeep costs or water availability? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #8 April 6, 2012 Quote>What Can We Do? Stop the deaths and injuries from swooping. That will go a long way towards convincing DZO's that the pond isn't a liability. ^this.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #9 April 6, 2012 Beat 'em to it. Fill it with JelloMy reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jacketsdb23 49 #10 April 6, 2012 hmmm...guess that will take Elsinore out of the "where can we hold swoop comps in SoCal" discussion. Sad to hear.Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jacketsdb23 49 #11 April 6, 2012 It won't be long until swoop comps (at least on the West Coast) will have to be done on private property away from standard dropzones. Swooping has such potential for the sport. Need to find someone willing to embrace that.Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #12 April 6, 2012 QuoteSwooping has such potential for the sport. In what ways, because I don't see them. Don't get me wrong, swooping is fun and among skydiver, cool as hell, but as far as the 'good of the sport', I'm not sure how swooping fits in. It's probably done more harm than good. Swooping pushed the performance limits of canopies to where they are now, and the trickle down effect is that newer jumpers are looking at smaller and smaller wings as just being 'moderate' as opposed to HP. When three guys on the load are jumping canopies under 80 sq ft, it's hard to convince a new jumper that a 150 or a 135 is a HP canopy. Swooping has also raised what people think of as HP landings. When swoopers are regularly pulling 270s, 450s, or more, and pushing 60 or 70 mph, new jumpers don't see double fronts or 90s as a 'big deal'. I'll be the first to admit that if these levels of performance had been properly handled from day one, we wouldn't have these problems, but the fact is that we do. What's the incentive for a DZO to spend the money to build or maintain a pond, when it's nothing but a magnet for swoopers (or wanna-be swoopers)? How about the double femur in Zhills earlier this week? Don't you think TKs life would have been easier without the drama, ambulances and reporters? I wonder what he's going to think when the ground keeper tells him the pond needs some costly maintenance? Spend the money, or save the aggrevation? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #13 April 6, 2012 QuoteSwooping has such potential for the sport. Care to elaborate ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jacketsdb23 49 #14 April 6, 2012 QuoteQuoteSwooping has such potential for the sport. Care to elaborate ? Because of its visible nature, there would appear to be a way to harness that spectator appeal for competitions. I get that it has limited marketability, because a six year old can't just go grab a rig and swoop a pond...but the visibility is there. Unfortunately, for a DZO running a business outside of swooping, there is very little if any return for them. Maybe I should say that swooping doesn't have potential for the sport of skydiving. Swooping has potential for swooping community. Maybe sometime in the not so distant future, swooping will have its own swoopjumper.com site and we'll get cast aside. Unfortunately, up until this year, people were not dieing during competitions...it was folks swooping during normal skydives. Only a complete ban of swooping ( a la Perris) will keep that from happening.Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robinheid 0 #15 April 6, 2012 Quote hmmm...guess that will take Elsinore out of the "where can we hold swoop comps in SoCal" discussion. Sad to hear. AFAIK, the Perris pond is history too. As one young gun there said to me Wednesday, "swooping is a dying sport, in more ways than one." Or to update what Skratch Garrison said a few decades ago after a dozen people bounced in two years at the Gulch, mostly from sub-1000-foot deployment altitudes: "Pulling low Swooping is a rush; it's just not practical." 44 SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jacketsdb23 49 #16 April 6, 2012 I get why people compare low pulls and swooping, but I don't think they are even close when you compare the mechanisms involved. Swooping is not conservative, its not safe, and if you fuck up you can die. There is a proper progression, a proper way to do it, ways to minimize the calculated risks involved. Throwing a pilot chute into 120mph, low, leaves a lot to chance. I just don't see the correlation on that level. Swooping gets a bad rap...but unless DZ's start banning swooping completely ( and it sounds like some large DZ's are well on their way) the canopy related landing accidents will continue.Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #17 April 6, 2012 Quote >>>Swooping is not conservative, its not safe, and if you fuck up you can die. There is a proper progression, a proper way to do it, ways to minimize the calculated risks involved.<<< Would you agree that swooping is similar to putting on a camera or flying in a wingsuit; very few of the "instant gratification" culture follow that line of proper progression? I'd hate to see the pond go, it's a great gathering place. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jacketsdb23 49 #18 April 6, 2012 agreed. So is this a definite plan or just being discussed? anyone know? Will swooping be banned similar to Perris?Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #19 April 6, 2012 >Swooping has such potential for the sport. Yep. We'll see if swoopers are willing to do what it takes to save it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,534 #20 April 6, 2012 QuoteThrowing a pilot chute into 120mph, low, leaves a lot to chance. I just don't see the correlation on that level.Depends on the gear you use. BASE jumpers do it all the time. And the gear that people used in the 60's opened a whole lot more consistently, with many malfunctions being either landable, or at least ones that you could hand-deploy a reserve into. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jacketsdb23 49 #21 April 6, 2012 Quote AFAIK, the Perris pond is history too. Has the Perris pond been filled in?Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 150 #22 April 6, 2012 QuoteSwooping has such potential for undertakers. FIXED!.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jacketsdb23 49 #23 April 6, 2012 QuoteQuoteSkydiving has such potential for undertakers. FIXED!. There. We can play this game all day.Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 150 #24 April 6, 2012 QuoteThere. We can play this game all day. You think its a game?. There's not a lot of fun to be had picking up smashed people. Its time to listen to the wake up call, and take the problem seriously. The only sportsmen taking divots out of the ground should be golfers.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deltron80 0 #25 April 6, 2012 QuoteSwoop the lake. It's common knowledge that Lake Elsinore is filled with brain eating amoebas. I wouldn't recommend that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
