daleskydive 0 #1 May 2, 2012 Hi Guys Im throwing anotherques out there. I have decided on getting a katana 120 WL 1.85 with advice from this forum, but have read since read that the min recomended jumps for a Xaos is 500 ram air jumps and min rec WL 1.8 so is there any reasons why I should not have concidered a xaos 118? I am getting comments from the good swoopers at my DZ that my landings are really nice.katana is still my choice at this stage but had not concidered the Xaos as an option. So please tell me if xaos 118 at WL 1.85 is a good or bad idea and why with a min 500 achieved. Distance in swooping is what Im after. Im cool with getting the katana if you guys can tell me why a xaos 118 is a bad option. Cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #2 May 2, 2012 No offence Dale but who is it that is recommending you to fly a Katana 120? This is a post you made not long ago mate, What has changed since the start of the year? QuoteThanks to everyone that made me take a good hard look at myself. I have recently done an intermediate swoop course with Matt Harris and now realise how shit I really am. I got a lot out of the course and am looking forward to putting into practice what I have learned. I think my big grief about unacceptable riser preasure was largely due to a shit and incorrect swooping technique. Anyway Im looking forward to many more 100s of jumps on the 139 until I get all the performance from the canopy that I can in a safe manner.I didnt enjoy the insults but am glad that I was big enough to take what you people said and learn from you,so thanks for the advice but not the insults. You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #3 May 2, 2012 I can tell by the way the op is written I have missed some entertaining shit. Anyone got the Bounce BINGO going yet? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #4 May 2, 2012 Quote I can tell by the way the op is written I have missed some entertaining shit. Anyone got the Bounce BINGO going yet? I'm not sure where to put this space, or which space to delete. Seems there's more and more ways to "win" every day... Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #5 May 2, 2012 QuoteI can tell by the way the op is written I have missed some entertaining shit Yup. This thread was the first, the OP is his son - http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=4283783;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25; If you look through the rest of his posts, you'll see further discussion of HP canopies, and some trolling around asking about 'some girl swooping an X-brace at 1.6', which is clearly his attempt to justify himself getting an X-brace canopy. Good stuff. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daleskydive 0 #6 May 2, 2012 Hey Im not trying to get a Xbraced canopy its a question. When a manafacturer says 500 jumps wouldnt it make you curious. But if the answer was yeah 500 jumps is ample experience wouldnt you want to know more about it. I have already said Im sticking with the 139 for another couple of 100 jumps. Well if all im going to get is ragged well F#### the forums. I take on board what you have said and still get shit. Nice work ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #7 May 2, 2012 QuoteI have already said Im sticking with the 139 for another couple of 100 jumps You did say that, in a couple of different places, but then you started a thread called - QuoteDecided on the katana 120 but was unaware that Xaos only recomends a min of 500 jumps Confusing, eh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daleskydive 0 #8 May 2, 2012 No not confusing curious is all. Would they not say that for a reason ? I have jumped a vello 111 in ideal conditions and know that its way out of my league. Read my post properly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daleskydive 0 #9 May 2, 2012 Read the post properly. Or did you skip that bit just to give me shit.If You go xbraced unless you WL is at least 2 and then I find this. Im trying to find out the truth not just you wont get any extra performance unless you load it at WL 2 or more which according to this chick is bullshit. No Im not trying to justify a xbraced for me. Get ya facts straight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #10 May 2, 2012 QuoteGet ya facts straight If you would make up your mind, and stop posting one contradiction after another, maybe I could. Maybe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #11 May 2, 2012 QuoteHi Guys Im throwing anotherques out there. I have decided on getting a katana 120 WL 1.85 with advice from this forum, but have read since read that the min recomended jumps for a Xaos is 500 ram air jumps and min rec WL 1.8 so is there any reasons why I should not have concidered a xaos 118? At 1.8 pounds/square foot canopies have sharp pointy teeth that you lack the experience to avoid although many people get lucky enough that is not an issue. Quote I am getting comments from the good swoopers at my DZ that my landings are really nice. How are your out landings with a low 90 degree turn to avoid unseen powerlines/barbed wire for a down or cross-wind up or down-hill landing on a paved road on the sunset load? That's the scenario you're sizing your canopy for, not nice swoops into the wind onto a flat grassy wide open field. If you haven't been doing that you lack the required experience for that down-size, and if you have you lack the judgement. Quote Distance in swooping is what Im after. Im cool with getting the katana if you guys can tell me why a xaos 118 is a bad option. Cheers Put a few hundred more jumps on a bigger canopy and learn how to really fly it. You'll have more fun with low carving approaches than slightly faster landings in a straight line. This ignores cross-bracing which often leads to detuned control inputs so the canopies aren't too twitchy at the higher wing loadings they enable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #12 May 2, 2012 "If you haven't been doing that you lack the required experience for that down-size, and if you have you lack the judgement." No dog in this hunt for me, but I am curious as to this statement - it seems contradictory. HOW does one get the experience without doing it if doing it shows lack of judgement? Catch 22.... As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #13 May 2, 2012 Quote"If you haven't been doing that you lack the required experience for that down-size, and if you have you lack the judgement." No dog in this hunt for me, but I am curious as to this statement - it seems contradictory. HOW does one get the experience without doing it if doing it shows lack of judgement? Catch 22.... I think he means if you HAD been doing all of that, you would not need to ask the question. Ergo, if you need to ask you either dont have enough experience or your judgment is questionableYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #14 May 2, 2012 QuoteNo dog in this hunt for me, but I am curious as to this statement - it seems contradictory. HOW does one get the experience without doing it if doing it shows lack of judgement? Catch 22.... One thing you could do is use your imagination. You can do whatever you are doing and imagine that you hit the "Oh Shit" situation and practice handling it so that the proper response becomes your baseline. "If I face this situation, this is what I will do." That worked quite well for me as a young jumper. A couple hundred jumps practicing different scenarios. Saved my ass more than once, fo' sho'.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #15 May 2, 2012 Quote"If you haven't been doing that you lack the required experience for that down-size, and if you have you lack the judgement." No dog in this hunt for me, but I am curious as to this statement - it seems contradictory. HOW does one get the experience without doing it if doing it shows lack of judgement? Catch 22.... Not a Catch 22 at all. Scenario #1 - 'If you haven't been doing that, you lack the required experience for a downsize'. 'That' could refer to the skills outlined, such as non-swoop landings where you exercise your 'utility' landing skills, the type used in off-field landings, or other 'non-standard' situations. 'That' could also refer to the idea of selecting a canopy for the 'worst case' as opposed to the 'best case'. If you're not doing that, and the 'wrost case' comes up, you're in trouble, so if you've chosen your canopu that way, you lack the experience for that canopy (the 'worst case' type of experience, real or practiced). Scenario #2 - 'if you have you lack the judgement' In this case, the jumper has been practicing the 'worst case' skills, or thinks they are choosing a canopy for that eventuality, but they are still considering a canopy that is clearly outside of their 'experience bracket', which in itself is an error, an error in judgement, I don't see those two scenarios as being mutually exclusive or contradictory to each other. They both lead to the conclusion that the proposed downsize is ill advised, just through different means. That aside, I do like how the OP thinks that 'deleting' the thread really 'deletes' anything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #16 May 2, 2012 Thanks, that makes sense. As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #17 May 2, 2012 Quote"If you haven't been doing that you lack the required experience for that down-size, and if you have you lack the judgement." No dog in this hunt for me, but I am curious as to this statement - it seems contradictory. HOW does one get the experience without doing it if doing it shows lack of judgement? Catch 22.... Exactly. To survive as a skydiver one needs to be able to handle out landings where there are a lot more obstacles than on a dropzone, the area is unfamiliar which makes late action to avoid the obstacles more likely, and where the area is likely to be a lot tighter than a grassy DZ (road, backyard, etc.) with all that combining to make into-the-wind landings less likely. Part of that is mechanical skills - adding opposite toggle to get a flat turn, flaring faster to fly over obstacles, flaring more while turning, etc. That can and should be practiced in the controlled ideal environment of a wide open dropzone, without conflicting traffic, when a jumper is current and not hung over. Part of that is muscle memory and a low enough mental arousal level from just landing a parachute in odd ways that a skydiver is less likely to do something leading to injury. We know a skydiver has that when he's been doing all those things in unusual situations; although getting into the unusual situations often enough to establish a pattern indicates a lack of judgement that contraindicates adding risk factors like a smaller canopy. When a skydiver hasn't had the opportunity to demonstrate he's acquired those skills we don't know and need to fall back on a statistical approach. Most skydivers who take some time to do canopy exercises formally or informally seem to do OK with the per canopy jump numbers implied by Brian Germain's 1.0 + .1/100 jump formula. With neither the skill demonstration (which is disqualifying for judgement reasons) nor experience to imply automatic responses are probably there down-sizing is inappropriate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 501 #18 May 3, 2012 Squeak you're just an old fella who doesn't know how to take risks.... On a more serious note Cameron is happy to do a canopy course if I can find enough other people who are interested, so if Dale wants to head over to York sometime soon it could work. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #19 May 3, 2012 Quote Squeak you're just an old fella who doesn't know how to take risks.... On a more serious note Cameron is happy to do a canopy course if I can find enough other people who are interested, so if Dale wants to head over to York sometime soon it could work. Cam is running one this weekend Nige, come on up.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 501 #20 May 3, 2012 Quote Quote Squeak you're just an old fella who doesn't know how to take risks.... On a more serious note Cameron is happy to do a canopy course if I can find enough other people who are interested, so if Dale wants to head over to York sometime soon it could work. Cam is running one this weekend Nige, come on up. Brilliant I'll try and get a permission slip from the wife.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
