Cypres Swooping Idea

[Floats18 0]

I'm no HP canopy pilot and I will not pretend to be, but I was thinking about the cypres problem -

Why don't 'hard core' swoopers attach their control units where they can see them and deactivate the cypres after deployment?

I can't think of many problems except for wasted battery life in turning the unit on and off, but if I were in such a position I would be willing to sacrafice the batteries, IMHO.

--- and give them wings so they may fly free forever

DiverDriver in Training

[tr027 0]

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I'm no HP canopy pilot and I will not pretend to be, but I was thinking about the cypres problem -
Why don't 'hard core' swoopers attach their control units where they can see them and deactivate the cypres after deployment?
I can't think of many problems except for wasted battery life in turning the unit on and off, but if I were in such a position I would be willing to sacrafice the batteries, IMHO.

Fashion, of course.
Such a unit already exists, is called an Astra, and it conserves battery life doing it that way. However, having an aad out in the open went out of fashion a while ago, it's more fashionable to hide them now. So you'll have to think of a solution that doesn't conflict with current fashion trends.

"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957

[sundevil777 102]

The Astra's switch was too simple (easy to operate), and the unit too dumb to realize that it shouldn't calibrate while climbing, so if you turn it on, or off then on, or if there is an intermittent circuit to the switch, while climbing, it will not have a correct ground reference. The Astra's were built solid, but that was all that was impressive about it.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Martini 0]

Turning off a Cypres is too time consuming and would dangerously distract the canopy pilot's attention. "Hardcore swoopers" are typically jumping small highly loaded canopies that require serious attention and don't stay in the air very long. Keeping the Cypres unit away from possible damage (like in the backpad or under the reserve flap) is also a good plan. It is also one reason the Astra, with it's vulnerable exposure, isn't very popular. While fashion may be a factor most people jump with an AAD so it's doubtful that visibility would put people off. Another fly in the ointment though is remembering to turn the AAD back on for the next jump. At any rate disabling the AAD for high-end swoopers is clearly a good plan and appears to be a consideration for the AAD manufacturers.

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

[tr027 0]

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The Astra's switch was too simple (easy to operate), and the unit too dumb to realize that it shouldn't calibrate while climbing, so if you turn it on, or off then on, or if there is an intermittent circuit to the switch, while climbing, it will not have a correct ground reference. The Astra's were built solid, but that was all that was impressive about it.

Well, if the operator is too dumb to realize you shouldnt calibrate your aad after takeoff, I wouldn't expect the unit to know any better either.

"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957

[mjosparky 4]

Changing the placement of an AAD would require approval of the unit manufacture and the rig manufacture. You know, TSO and the FAA and all that crap.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Floats18 0]

I wasn't thinking of this to be a perminent fix; Cypres is working on a solution to the problem.

I just think that there should be a dumb solution between now and when the new version comes out.

Placing the control unit somewhere conspicuous and 'out of fashon' would be worth it to me.

About the Astra - People choose the cypres because of its reliability and reputation which the Astra does not carry. I'm not looking to change product, just change the way some people take advantage of the security of the Cypres until the company comes out with a permanent fix.

--- and give them wings so they may fly free forever

DiverDriver in Training

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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I'm no HP canopy pilot and I will not pretend to be, but I was thinking about the cypres problem.

I just think that there should be a dumb solution between now and when the new version comes out.

The simple solution for swoopers wanting to go big (going big meaning not only doing bigger turns, but also flying gear like the RDS and HMA lines which cause less drag), is to not go big on regular loads where the AAD may be benificial. A normal 270 shouldn't set off one's AAD during the turn. But big turns starting above 1k on a wing with minimal drag should be done when no other traffic is around (ie: go big only on hop n' pop type loads).

Also, it takes the swooper time to go through their after opening procedures (make sure your airspace is clear, make sure you're turned towards the DZ and/or turned into the winds, deal with your slider and possibly your pilot chute if/when using an RDS system, open up your chest strap, unstow your brakes and fly your canopy to your setup point ensuring you're in the proper sequence of swoopers landing). To add another step to shut off your AAD to your after opening procedure is just taking more time and adding more stress to the skydive.

I'd much rather just jump with my AAD turned off when I'm doing hop n' pop loads and not go big when doing normal loads. It really doesn't get much simpler than that.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[davelepka 4]

Here's another problem with your idea. How would you mount the unit so you could see it under canopy? You need to be able to see the light to turn it off, and unless you could, look at it head-on, bright sunlight may prevent you from seeing the LED flash.

Just face it, you're trying to use the Cypres for something it was not designed for, in an effort to not use for soemthing it wasn't designed for.

It's simple: You want to go big? Take it out or make sure it's off. You want the protection from a Cypres? Don't go big.

[mjosparky 4]

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The simple solution for swoopers wanting to go big (going big meaning not only doing bigger turns, but also flying gear like the RDS and HMA lines which cause less drag), is to not go big on regular loads where the AAD may be benificial. A normal 270 shouldn't set off one's AAD during the turn. But big turns starting above 1k on a wing with minimal drag should be done when no other traffic is around (ie: go big only on hop n' pop type loads).

Excellent response to the problem. Worth repeating.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[tso-d_chris 0]

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People choose the cypres because of its reliability and reputation which the Astra does not carry.

Many people, myself included, have been, or are very happy with the Astra. It has bonuses and drawbacks in comparison to the CYPRES. In this particular situation, the advantages are clear. Fast and easy power down after successful canopy deployment, along with a slightly higher activation velocity.

Brand loyalty can be a dangerous thing when it blinds our ability to recognize the shortcomings of our own equipment.

Of course, if I were buying a new AAD today, it would be neither of the above, as I am highly unlikely to make my canopy descend that quickly at my loading, and I personally prefer the features of a different model.

For Great Deals on Gear

[peckerhead 0]

I have a better idea...

Get rid of the damn thing and activate your equipment manually.

The new aad-dependent generation scares me.

[AndyMan 7]

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The new aad-dependent generation scares me

The continued regular occurance of good skydivers going in with absolutely nothing out scares me far more.


_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[davelepka 4]

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The new aad-dependent generation scares me.

Modern AAD's have proven to be a no fault layer of safety for the vast majority of jumpers. Why is it a problem when a shortcoming is discovered, and folks would rather see a fix, as opposed to removing the AAD alltogether?

For example, I have airbags in my car, however, I will still do all I can to avoid an accident. Am I dependant on the airbags? How about seatbelts for that matter, I drove around as a kid for years without a seatbelt (thanks mom and dad), but due to a better awareness of how much they can help, and seatbelt laws, I now wear mina all the time, and require my kids to do the same. Again, does any of this have an impact on my desire or ability to avoid an accident?

Ignoring a safety device is stupid. It's not bold, or self-sufficient, it's stupid.

[Andy9o8 2]

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I have a better idea...

Get rid of the damn thing and activate your equipment manually.

The new aad-dependent generation scares me.

I agree jumpers shouldn't ever be dependent on an AAD. But I see too many long-time jumpers lump everyone who uses an AAD into the category "dependent", and that's just not accurate. Just because I wear a seatbelt in my car doesn't mean I'm dependent on it. The first fatality I ever knew personally was a jumper back in the 70's who collided with a canopy while in freefall and then was a no-pull. Chances are, an AAD probably would have saved her (assuming she wasn't already killed in the collision). Fatalities due to no-pulls have reduced greatly over the past 20 years. There's a good reason for that, and it's spelled A-A-D.

[billvon 2,998]

>Ignoring a safety device is stupid.

I agree. You should always pay attention to them. Sometimes, though, paying attention to them means making the decision not to use them, since they are more likely to do harm than good on a specific jump.

[freeflyflunky 0]

Okay - here's another newbie question for you pros (and yes, another HP question from someone light years away from jumping a HP canopy.)
The other day, I was listening to a swooper talk about why he chose not to jump at all with an AAD rather than have one he turned off on jumps where he planned to swoop -- He said that in the case where he anticipated needing one (i.e., knocked unconscious,) he wouldn't survive anyway. The reason? With an extremely small and highly loaded canopy, and unconscious "weight" at the end of the pendulum, he would likely go in anyway...Now, I didn't understand this argument, and didn't feel likely interrupting a conversation between two swoopers with my uninformed question. However, since ignorance is embraced here on the forums () I figured I throw it out there and see what the prevailing logic is.

_______________________________________

Oh, and one more thing...Ninjas ARE way cooler than pirates.

[davelepka 4]

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Sometimes, though, paying attention to them means making the decision not to use them,

Sometimes, yes, and in those cases, by all means do not jump with an AAD.

However, I don't believe that, "I'll just pull my handles myself" is a good reason not to jump one. Everyone plans on pulling their handles themselves, but history has shown it doesn't always work out like we plan.

[HydroGuy 0]

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He said that in the case where he anticipated needing one (i.e., knocked unconscious,) he wouldn't survive anyway. The reason? With an extremely small and highly loaded canopy, and unconscious "weight" at the end of the pendulum, he would likely go in anyway..

He is saying that he thinks he'll die if he lands on a loaded reserve in half brakes unconscious...and he might be right. But his odds of dieing with nothing out are even higher...

Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary

[davelepka 4]

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He is saying that he thinks he'll die if he lands on a loaded reserve in half brakes unconscious...and he might be right. But his odds of dieing with nothing out are even higher...

..and think what would happen if he were to regain consiousness at, say, 300 ft.? With a Cypres, he could get a flare and a PLF. No Cypres, he's got a front row seat to the last show he'll ever see.

To that end as well, the Cypres will increase you time to the ground, giving you even more time to wake up and land your reserve. I've heard many stories of guys either getting knocked out, or temp. dazed, only to wake up in freefall, and deploy their mains (at well above 750 ft). Again, if yu get knocked out, you'll come to eventually, and I'd much rather be under my 113, than two seconds from a dirt nap.

However, if I do 'land' my 113 unconsious, that'll suck....

[billvon 2,998]

>He said that in the case where he anticipated needing one (i.e., knocked
> unconscious,) he wouldn't survive anyway. The reason? With an extremely
> small and highly loaded canopy, and unconscious "weight" at the end of
>the pendulum, he would likely go in anyway.

Well:

1. History has shown that he will most likely need his cypres not because he got knocked out but because he forgot to pull. In that case it might well save his life even with a small reserve.

2. An impact at 40mph is more survivable than an impact at 120mph even if he is unconscious.

3. I am getting more and more annoyed by manufacturers who don't offer small main/large reserve combinations. Serious swoopers wear weights in competition; why not put some of that weight in a reserve that will do a good job of saving your life?

[diablopilot 2]

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The new aad-dependent generation scares me

The continued regular occurance of good skydivers going in with absolutely nothing out scares me far more.


_Am

One could argue they ain't that good then.......

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[peckerhead 0]

The continued regular occurance of good skydivers going in with absolutely nothing out scares me far more.

_Am

[peckerhead 0]

Hey!
If you want to take chances with a small electronic device that might kill you go right ahead. It's your life.

I prefer to play it safe.

[davelepka 4]

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If you want to take chances with a small electronic device that might kill you go right ahead. It's your life.

Again, what about airbags? If one of those fuckers fired on a busy freeway, that could cause a real problem, but most cars on the road have those.

I've been jumping with a Cypres for 90% of my jumps, and it has been virtually invisible in it's operation. I take care of my end of the deal, as in slowing down before I get to 750 ft, and it take scare of it;s job, which is to do nothing in that case.

Judging by your profile, I've been jumping twice as fast as you, and so for my safety record is 100%. Sidestepping a safety device due to your own ill-advised fears is not playing it safe.