Ruined my instructors 1000th jump

[Andy9o8 2]

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In this case, a short grounding was an excellent tool for communicating the severity of his actions.

And I think it wasn't. I think it was punitive, rather than instructive, at a time when instruction was needed, and not punishment.

So there we have it. Onward and upward.

[floormonkey 0]

His grounding was followed up with instruction the same day plus extended canopy instruction the following day.

And Andy, if you'd send me your email, unblock your PM's, or a way to get in contact with you via PM, I'll gladly lay out all the circumstances that led to this choice. Perhaps after you read them, you could let us know what would have been a better choice for this individual student under these specific circumstances.


NvyZero- you didn't ruin her jump at all. We instruct for the love of it, good and bad. Each jump where our student lands safely is a great jump. The rest is just details we can fix.

[peregrinerose 0]

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In this case, a short grounding was an excellent tool for communicating the severity of his actions.

And I think it wasn't. I think it was punitive, rather than instructive, at a time when instruction was needed, and not punishment.

So there we have it. Onward and upward.

I didn't see it as punitive... especially new jumpers get so wired up with something like this, that they sometimes need the afternoon off as a breather so that they don't make stupid mistakes. It also gives the time for further instruction on the ground with them focusing on said instruction rather than focusing on the skydive that they are getting ready for and distracting them from the canopy skills they are learning during that time.

I've told students to take an afternoon off for many reasons... obvious fatigue, distraction, needing time for ground instruction without the distraction of thinking about a jump, etc. It's not a punishment, it's just an educational tool like any other that is sometimes appropriate.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[skyjumpenfool 2]

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I was pissed at myself for ruining my instructors 1000th jump more than anything

Oh Hell! Some of us have been "ruining" jumps for over 35 years. You can "ruin" a jump with me anytime.

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Already bought a shitload of beer for that landing.

Sounds like you're learning from your experience, and that the instructors are covering all the "important" bases.

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The jump went fine got my first kiss pass!

Kiss passes have been part of the sport since before I started jumping. Anytime you get a kiss pass, it's a good thing. AT ANY EXPERIENCE LEVEL! That is, unless you see Twardo flying at you all puckered up>>>>

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[waveoff5500 0]

i went low on my instructor/good friends 6000th jump and the told them that the formation went high on me! its just skydiving as long as no one died it was a good jump. drink up and have fun!

"its just a normal day at the dropzone until its not"

1653

[NvyZero 0]

I am a 150lb male!

[NvyZero 0]

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The only bit I didn't think was cool was getting grounded.

Groundings have no point unless they are serious enough to be permanent. They just make people uncurrent.

Far better for you to get back in the air ASAP and work on your canopy control.

Grounding a student for whst you did says more about the instructors at your DZ, than it does about you. I'm not impressed with them.

I got grounded after the landing in the parking lot. i did a second jump and turned way too low for final way below 100 ft, i had that canopy under control though i felt i had it. I even stood it up and ran it out. the grounding came after that low turn i scared people again. I got to complacent in free fall so my confidence from free fall moved to canopy control. But now I know to be extra safe under canopy thats the part where most of us die! and plus i have a full metal lower back im not trying to fuck up!

Sorry for not mentioning the low turn in the first post!

[joephus 0]

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In this case, a short grounding was an excellent tool for communicating the severity of his actions.

And I think it wasn't. I think it was punitive, rather than instructive, at a time when instruction was needed, and not punishment.

So there we have it. Onward and upward.

I thought he wasn't grounded for landing in the parking lot, but grounded for doing a low turn on his very next jump after landing in the parking lot.

Anyway congrats on passing your AFF man!

[Andy9o8 2]

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The only bit I didn't think was cool was getting grounded.

Groundings have no point unless they are serious enough to be permanent. They just make people uncurrent.

Far better for you to get back in the air ASAP and work on your canopy control.

Grounding a student for whst you did says more about the instructors at your DZ, than it does about you. I'm not impressed with them.

I got grounded after the landing in the parking lot. i did a second jump and turned way too low for final way below 100 ft, i had that canopy under control though i felt i had it. I even stood it up and ran it out. the grounding came after that low turn i scared people again. I got to complacent in free fall so my confidence from free fall moved to canopy control. But now I know to be extra safe under canopy thats the part where most of us die! and plus i have a full metal lower back im not trying to fuck up!

You did a low turn like that?? By god, son, I woulda grounded your ass.

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Sorry for not mentioning the low turn in the first post!

Pfft! No problem.

[AggieDave 6]

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i did a second jump and turned way too low for final way below 100 ft, i had that canopy under control though i felt i had it. I even stood it up and ran it out.

A few points to remember the rest of your skydiving career (it doesn't matter if you have 1 or 10,000 jumps these points remain true):

1. Standing up a landing doesn't automatically mean it was a good one.
2. Low turns will kill you
3. Flat turns WILL save your life
4. See #2
5. See #3

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[virgin-burner 1]

fuck her








simple as that!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[obelixtim 150]

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i did a second jump and turned way too low for final way below 100 ft,

OK, didn't realise that. Parachutes don't act as a parachute in a turn. Aeroplanes don't land in a turn.

Good reasons for that. The planet IS quite solid.

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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I was pissed at myself for ruining my instructors 1000th jump more than anything b/c I know she will never get it back.

Wow. What an inconsiderate asshole you are, fucking up on such an important jump for her. The next time you pay a couple of hundred bucks so she can go skydiving, try to do better so she can have a good time.

[davelepka 4]

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I thought he wasn't grounded for landing in the parking lot, but grounded for doing a low turn on his very next jump after landing in the parking lot.

Anyone esle see a connection here?

Let's keep in mind that the jump described in the OP was AFF lv. 7, and the subsequent jump would have been lv. 8, so even if there were a couple of levels he didn't pass, this is a guy with 10 jumps.

So on one jump on a new-to-him canopy he goes long on his landing and puts it down in the parking lot. Two things casue this, either turning onto final too close to your target, or turning onto final too high. The very next jump he turns so low onto final that he's grounded for the rest of the day.

Does anyone see the connection? My question is what sort of corrective training was applied to the student's canopy control after lv. 7? Clearly a mistake was made, and one that could have ended in injury or property damage, but it appears it was largely ignored and the jumper was allowed to return to the sky without corrective training.

Was a flight plan created for the following jump? To include pattern entry and turn altitudes? Was accuracy discussed and how to alter turn-in points to adjust for accuracy? I don't know how far the overshoot was on lv. 7, but how about the concept of selecting a touchdown point with more room for over/under shooting, in order to prevent a repeat performance?

Folks, this is a great examlpe of what's wrong with this sport. A student made a student mistake in the area of canopy control, and then by all indications was allowed to go back up without corrective (or sufficient corrective) training, and made another rookie mistake of over correcting.

Unless the OP is the worlds worst skydiver who can't follow training or direction, and he was properly trained before the next jump, I place part of the blame for the error on the following jump on the DZ's instructional staff. This is a student with less than 10 jumps who made a significant and telling error, and then made the same error in reverse on the following jump. Not only did the DZ fail to recognize this, and apply corrective training, they had the nerve to ground him as if these were premeditated, intentional acts. From all outward appearances, it appears they were actually signs of shortcomings in the studetns understanding of canopy flight, and were largely ignored.

[floormonkey 0]

Negative. Flight plan was done. Corrective training was done. Canopy briefing was done. Instructional staff did give corrections. Student still made a poor choice on following jump. We've all made those type of mistakes.

It's easy to quarterback from behind the keyboard. This is the reason many experienced and knowledgeable skydivers avoid this website and/or do not post. Every post is analyzed and judged without trying to get the entire story or situation. People throw out damning critiques when revealing questions are more appropriate. This has resulted in a great potential loss of knowledge to the skydiving community.

Perhaps before criticizing the actions of instructors responding to a situation you have no personal knowledge of (the instructors being the ones who have spent hours with NvyZero, were there for the entire day, know about his motivators, what he responds too, etc.), you might ask the OP, NvyZero, if the actions taken were beneficial in his growth as a skydiver, and if the importance of making the correct decision was impressed upon him.

Every student is different. Every student responds differently. The goal is to make the best decision for the student one is working with at the time. Our goal is to produce the best skydivers for the ENTIRETY of their jumping careers, not to take their money, pass them up a level, and send them on their way.

Besides, fatalities and injuries result in paperwork. Paperwork cuts into skydiving time. I've experienced enough fatalities and injuries to be absolutely sick of them.

[crotalus01 0]

I understand your enthusiasm and dedication to getting jumpers to understand canopy flight and get everyone to be the best canopy pilot they can be, but damn Dave. That post was really harsh on the student AND his instructors .
You are an instructor - have you never had a student fuck up two different canopy related issues in a day?

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...

[davelepka 4]

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Perhaps before criticizing the actions of instructors responding to a situation you have no personal knowledge of (the instructors being the ones who have spent hours with NvyZero, were there for the entire day, know about his motivators, what he responds too, etc.), you might ask the OP, NvyZero, if the actions taken were beneficial in his growth as a skydiver, and if the importance of making the correct decision was impressed upon him.

In all fairness to me, I did conclude my post with this statement -

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Unless the OP is the worlds worst skydiver who can't follow training or direction, and he was properly trained before the next jump, I place part of the blame for the error on the following jump on the DZ's instructional staff.

Maybe the term, 'the worlds worst skydiver' was a bit much, but at the time I wrote that, I doubted that the student had recieved corrective training, and simply made two errors in a row.

Given the first hand experience you have with the student, it appears that he did make two (compeltely different) canopy related mistakes two jumps in a row, and being grounded for the rest of the day was probably a good move.

[D22369 0]

As for the kiss pass, relax. Can you really tell me there's a safety issue with lockin' lips for a second with a student on what many DZ's consider a graduation jump?
***

well... my first kiss pass still gives me nightmares about a big handlebar mustache

I watched a graduation dive that at the bottom end there was a surprise kiss pass - male to male, the student who had been pretty damned good up to that point went googlyfucked end over end and pulled resulting in a self entanglement *(lines) and the end result was either an aad fire or a rsl pull after he cut away and couldnt clear the mess *(been a few years, I dont recall exactly which it was)

the spot wasnt spectacular but also wasnt horrible but was far enough away for us to all watch easily to the south with a pretty good idea of altitude

Bob : do ya think they are getting low?
me : yeah... ok, there goes the student...

Me AGAIN : mother of god thats *(insert instructors name here) as the student plummets to what I calculated was about the 4th hole at the golf course only to be saved by the hand of god at the last few seconds of his unworthy life and the fact that he hadnt slept with the riggers wife.

oh, on a side note, I have known and worked with this instructor for many years *(we are both getting to be old fuckers now) and he's one of the good ones, he'll give it everything he's got till 2k for anyone, and till the blood fills his goggles for a select few


Roy

edit to add: I hit post too quick *(patron ftw) after this event we decided at Richland to stop the graduation kiss passes and save them for later when the newbies werent quite so green.

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.