dragon2 2 #51 February 20, 2012 Dude, if you continue jumping, when you reach 500+ jumps or 1000, you should look back at these posts you're making right now, and I predict you'll be laughing very hard at yourself and/or be majorly embarrassed. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrjny 0 #52 February 20, 2012 Talk about elementary. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #53 February 20, 2012 QuoteTalk about elementary. flesh it out a bit - this means nothing. Do you or don't you see how newbies continually recommend requirements that seem to include themselves? Pick a sport, pick a discipline in skydiving, it's really not a new thing at all. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #54 February 20, 2012 QuoteBeowulf - I never claimed the world had only 2 states State 1: I know State 2: or they know. That would be a binary outcome, which is typically not the case when dealing with a myriad of uncontrolled risk factors. My intent was to highlight the fact that another discipline within the sport parachuting community (swooping) has been proven to be much more dangerous than strapping on a gorpro, yet people find it permissible with training - just as they find camera flying. To an outsider that's puzzling. The gentlemen from San Diego who's no longer with us thought he could handle swooping and apparently did several thousand times prior. There is a long tail of risk factors we cannot control and there is quite a bit of ambiguity in the sport as it pertains to how that risk should be controlled. You can debate that until your blue in the face but I'll never be convinced otherwise. Jeff And you continue to dazzle us with your ignorance. Whether you are flying camera or swooping the name of the game is stacking the deck in your favor. The more experience you have flying your body or flying your canopy the better you will be at managing the risk. Neither activity is with out risk. The 200 jump recommendation before jumping with a camera is just a bare minimum. Cameras are very distracting and jumpers with low experience are going to have trouble dealing with it. This has been illustrated many times. I know from experience. I started jumping a camera at around 450 jumps and currently have well over 1000 camera jumps. I rarely jump a camera any more because I am focusing on other things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrjny 0 #55 February 20, 2012 There's nothing embarrassing about it really. Cameras will probably be smaller and more people will be using them when I have that many jumps. Nothing else to say really, apparently nobody took my insights and experience at their face (maybe Dave, Twardo to some degree)..they just bashed me. I still say, create a sticky that tells people what they need to fly camera without getting hurt. The dictatorial nature and pandora's box'ish type of strategy will just provoke people further. Jeff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrjny 0 #56 February 20, 2012 QuoteWhether you are flying camera or swooping the name of the game is stacking the deck in your favor. Agreed - so why are we all not jumping canopies loaded at 1:1? Must be ambiguity and generalizations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #57 February 20, 2012 You are still missing the point. Jumping highly loaded canopies is not for people with low jump numbers. Why because of the high risk. Just like jumping a camera is not for people with low jump numbers. The recommended jump numbers to be able to manage the risk of swooping highly loaded canopies is much higher then jumping a camera. Why can't you understand that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrjny 0 #58 February 20, 2012 Dude, people die swooping. 1 person died jumping a camera, because they had no parachute. (doesn't count in my book). Simple stuff really. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrjny 0 #59 February 20, 2012 I think the topic has digressed. To all who've read this, I hope you can appreciate my candor Final point - camera sticky would be a good idea. Jeff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #60 February 20, 2012 Nobody said skydiving or swooping is safe. There are worse things then dying. I have a friend who is paralyzed for life. He was doing a solo jump and working on flying head down. Had a premature deployment of his main. He was wearing a camera. His opening shock was so strong that the whiplash caused a seperation of vertabrae in his neck. When it came back together it was offset. If he wasn't wearing the camera chances are the whiplash wouldn't have been so bad. Not everything translates to fatalitys. And just because wearing camera isn't as dangerous as swooping doesn't mean it's safe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
taylor.freefall 0 #61 February 20, 2012 Can you carry this on please? - It's either Wendy Williams, or this. Thanks... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #62 February 20, 2012 Quote I think the topic has digressed. To all who've read this, I hope you can appreciate my candor Final point - camera sticky would be a good idea. Jeff I do, and you have made an important point. Also...a sticky might be a good idea on one level, but on another it may just sever to give someone with 'Internet skills only' a false sense of their knowledge & understanding. Again...be safe & have fun! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #63 February 20, 2012 Quotecamera sticky would be a good idea. Shame no one's thought of that already. Oh wait ... they seem to have thought of it twice. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?forum=7;"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrjny 0 #64 February 20, 2012 I think it's a recency/frequency thing. The more you hear good advice the more likely you are to listen. Net, reality, etc... I absolutely will -- if you need a video guy call me up Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrjny 0 #65 February 20, 2012 Yeah, I mean those are very complicated and detailed - which is good to have regardless. I would say a 2 paragraph 1 pager covering the critical elements: snag points audible recc' experience pitfalls et al Would be useful - also, the video place is not where people are going to go for amateur self shot footage help, IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrjny 0 #66 February 20, 2012 I think I made my points, rather would not have it devolve into a DZ episode of Springer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrjny 0 #67 February 20, 2012 I hope he has a strong vision of the good he can still do in his life, despite his ailment. Scary stuff - but it's all out there. Jeff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 1 #68 February 20, 2012 Quote I hope he has a strong vision of the good he can still do in his life, despite his ailment. Scary stuff - but it's all out there. Jeff I am glad I typically jump at a smaller DZ. There is probably a small chance I will ever see you in the sky unless we see each other at a boogie. I do not have many jumps and I only have a coach rating (working on AFF this year) but you are the jumper that hurts people. You should feel lucky some of these jumpers give you the time of day after how many low timers they have said this exact same crap to over and over and seeing most not listen. I hope you will come around and I hope you do not hurt yourself.... most importantly .... I hope you do not hurt or kill another jumper..... especially my friends Most of what you have written proves your lack of experience and it is painful to read. To the OP... read and listen to the EXPERIENCED skydivers here and talk to your instructors at your dz. Have fun and take it slow. The rules and RECOMMENDATIONS are written in blood. Remember that!Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonstark 8 #69 February 20, 2012 Quote My question is this. If I am not allowed to use a camera until 200 jumps why can a student on the first jump have a radio attached to the helmet? Imagine your brain can take in information and process it like traffic on a freeway. As an AFF student all the "traffic" or stimulation you can really take is a single lane rural road. You are learning with each jump to perceive and process more and more stimuli. You'll soon be on two lane highway kind of input. Note that there is a LOT that you are missing every jump at this time. With time and experience you'll see, hear, sense and process more and more on each jump. An AFF candidate is close to sensory overload. That is why it is so important to thoroughly debrief immediately after a jump. A radio is a must to assure that the AFF student that is overwhelmed by the excess stimuli act under instruction just as when given hand signals by the instructors. Believe it or not -and- like it or not, YOU are missing A LOT of stimuli at your level of experience. Adding a potential hazard to your jump will use up some of your ability to pay attention to the things that you really need to survive. You do not, at this time, have enough attention to spread around on distractions like unfamiliar equipment, smaller canopies, different deployment systems, demos, jumping into your friend's BBQ, cameras, etc. jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #70 February 20, 2012 Quote Go read through the incidents forum..the latest one had nothing to do with a camera. Come to think of it, none have Actually, I don't think this statement is correct either. Quite arguably - this one (see attachment taken from that separate thread) seems at least in part, very directly contributed-to by the presence of/jumping with camera. Many other incidents, most definitely influenced by the presence of (even a "small format") camera - that very well just as easily could have been fatalities as not (other than by sheer dumb/blind luck) are listed in DSE's thread also, here. OP - Whatever your ultimate decision, please consider all aspects and resources (and their sources) presented to you. Best wishes to you, for a long, healthy & safe participation/progression... in and into whatever disciplines in this sport you may choose to pursue. Best, -Grantcoitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #71 February 21, 2012 QuoteFinal point - camera sticky would be a good idea. Jeff I disagree. Learning from the internet is tough. Learning from the experienced is much easier, more to the point and more informative than any "sticky" could be. Listening is a big part of that learning process. OK...make it a sticky that says: -Read the SIM -Talk to the experienced -Listen to what they say. -Act accordingly. Simple as that.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gearless_chris 1 #72 February 21, 2012 QuoteQuote Sit down with Bryan Burke and have a friendly discussion about wearing your camera. Please. And then listen to everything else Bryan has to say. Seriously. Buy the man a couple beverages of his choice and just listen. Great stories, great info, told with dry humor and insightful analysis. And I can guarantee you that he won't yell at you. People talk all the time about getting "Burked" at Eloy (or other dropzones where Bryan is traveling with the SDAZ aircraft). People who've never seen it think that it means you're getting yelled at. Oh no, that couldn't be more wrong. I have compared getting Burked to the feeling you get when your parents said, in a quiet voice, "I'm very disappointed in you." I don't know about you, but that always felt worse than being yelled at. Bryan doesn't raise his voice, but he makes his points in a strong and meaningful way. And you'll learn a lot from him as long as you listen. I was "Burked" for crossing the runway too low at Rantoul once."If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane. My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #73 February 21, 2012 Quote ......There is a long tail of risk factors we cannot control ..... Jeff That's the only smart thing you've said so far! However, what others want you to understand is; there's also risk factors that, given experience and training, you can control. The uncontrolable risks in this sport are bad enough. Everything else I call "The STUPID". Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #74 February 21, 2012 QuoteDude, people die swooping. 1 person died jumping a camera, because they had no parachute. (doesn't count in my book). Simple stuff really. Stop while you're only this far behind kid. You haven't got a clue and more importantly you don't have the respect that would cause anyone to want to begin to teach you that which you don't know.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
