robinheid 0 #1 January 10, 2012 http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19706239SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 January 10, 2012 The 12th Man has been used by Texas A&M since when the tradition started in 1922. E. King Gill, a former football player for A&M, was called out of the stands to suit up due to the number of injuries the team suffered during the Cotton Bowl. That's why all the current students stand during the football game. That's why there is a 12th Man on the team, which is a walk on position. The player gets to wear the 12th Man jersey (it says "12th Man" on the sleeve and is number 12) and is typically apart of the kick off squad. Anyways, the point is that it is an old tradition and has been named as such for as long. TAMU owns the trademark and the TM is only worth anything if it is protected. If a college tried using a pro-team's trademark, then you know the same thing would happen. Although it is an interesting issue, the only reason the demo team is mentioned is because they flew the flag they were given to fly for the demo.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #3 January 10, 2012 While I agree with your statement on the value of a trademark, this action only serves to cheapen the sentiment around it, and shows a lack of sportsmanship by A&M.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #4 January 10, 2012 QuoteWhile I agree with your statement on the value of a trademark, this action only serves to cheapen the sentiment around it, and shows a lack of sportsmanship by A&M. Strike that and reverse it. TAMU's tradition and trademark is widely known. It was further made known in the NFL world last year due to the Seahawks. The Bronco's front office would know this and chose to ignore it. How is that good sportsmanship?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #5 January 10, 2012 QuoteWhile I agree with your statement on the value of a trademark, this action only serves to cheapen the sentiment around it, and shows a lack of sportsmanship by A&M. Is it somehow more sportsmanlike to let someone trample on your ownership rights? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #6 January 10, 2012 Quote http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19706239 Is Texas A&M planning on suing ALL the NFL Teams? MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #7 January 10, 2012 Quote Quote http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19706239 Is Texas A&M planning on suing ALL the NFL Teams? Matt Are all of the NFL teams going to disregard a righteous trademark? This isn't TAMU's fault.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #8 January 11, 2012 Quote Quote Quote http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19706239 Is Texas A&M planning on suing ALL the NFL Teams? Matt Are all of the NFL teams going to disregard a righteous trademark? This isn't TAMU's fault. Sure it is not their "Fault", but they are the ones pushing the suit. The 12th man has been used for a long time. I remember it in high school (Grad in '86). I understand they trademarked it, but is it really "theirs"? I do not see this as a "win" if they sue all the Football Teams who use the "12th man". MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #9 January 11, 2012 QuoteSure it is not their "Fault", but they are the ones pushing the suit. The 12th man has been used for a long time. I remember it in high school (Grad in '86). Since 1922 for TAMU.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #10 January 12, 2012 But when was it trademarked? Well, wikipedia has a long enough article on the 12th man tradition as it exists in different sports. It mentioned QuoteThe term "12th Man" was coined and marketed to represent the Texas Aggie fans after the 1922 Dixie Classic. While intellectual property laws recognize such common law uses in trademark disputes, the official registration of the mark was not filed by Texas A&M (U.S. Reg. No. 1948306) until September 1990, and later significantly bolstered by the passage of the Federal Dilution Trademark Act of 1995. It isn't clear from the article though, whether the concept was known in sports before 1922, or whether it all came out of that one Texas A&M game. That would be an important factor in how people judge this whole thing. Laypeople are often sceptical about patents, trademarks, etc., whenever something already existing or obvious is 'appropriated' and one group then gets more rights than others for an idea. It appears that it isn't as if A&M are trying to stop ordinary people from using the term; only that they don't want other commercial football teams in the US from officially capitalizing on that particular concept. One can get some correspondence associated with the trademark at http://tdr.uspto.gov/search.action?sn=74560726 but so far I didn't see any detailed statement justifying the trademark, nothing like one would have for an actual patent. All that there is are statements basically saying "we used the term for athletic events in interstate commerce as early as '22, and were selling items by '89, and here are photos of a few ways we marketed it in recent years". But it doesn't seem to address how anyone else may have used the idea or anything similar at the time -- somewhat unlike for patents. It's more like "we used it commercially in a particular industry" and unless someone else can say they did that earlier, it's A&Ms to use commercially. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3mpire 0 #11 January 12, 2012 QuoteAre all of the NFL teams going to disregard a righteous trademark? This isn't TAMU's fault. Seattle got to experience their legal department's wrath when they got uptight about us having retired the number 12 in dedication to the fans, and to raising a 12th man flag before every game. it's really just a money grab. the seahawks cut them a fat check for the "right" to use the 12th man every year. by calling the lawyers all TAMU is saying to the broncos is "gimmie your lunch money". being in an entirely different league means that the use of the 12th man by an NFL team or teams doesn't cost the university a dime. It's not like someone is going to mistake a seahawks 12th man flag for an aggies 12th man flag and somehow the university is going to lose merchandise royalties. if it was truly about the "righteous" nature of the thing, they would be principled and say "this is our trademark because we are 100% committed to our team" and never under any circumstances let another team use their trademark. but they're total sellouts, anyone can use it if they pay up. legally it's their right to defend their trademark, and if you have a trademark you have to aggressively defend it if you want a court to respect it, but it's kind of like in software where some company tries to say they patented the idea of a button or something, and now ANYONE who uses a button somehow owes them something. So no, it isn't TAMU's "fault" that the law let's them be dicks about it, because it's all about getting a pay day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #12 January 12, 2012 Quote It appears that it isn't as if A&M are trying to stop ordinary people from using the term; only that they don't want other commercial football teams in the US from officially capitalizing on that particular concept. That's what I've seen so far, especially since there are a lot of individuals use 12th Man in various "non-approved" venues, but they weren't commercial entities.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tuna-Salad 0 #13 January 12, 2012 This is news??? Really?Millions of my potential children died on your daughters' face last night. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #14 January 12, 2012 I don't follow football closely enough to know how "normal" this is to use. But, uh, wouldn't they have to send a cease and desist letter? Then, AFTER they voilate that TAMU can sue. If it is a blatant "FU" to the TAMU who clearly had a TM, then , well, whatever. Seems pretty petty to me. If theres a real legal stance it would be better handled by making a public statement long the lines of "that is our trademark. Anyone who continues to use it will be brought to court." Now, if that is already the case, then have at it, TAMU.My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #15 January 12, 2012 Broncos ARE you ready to Rrrrrrrrumble???? oh shit, that is trade mark too.Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #16 January 12, 2012 QuoteI don't follow football closely enough to know how "normal" this is to use. But, uh, wouldn't they have to send a cease and desist letter? Then, AFTER they voilate that TAMU can sue. They're not suing. They informally let the Broncos know that they have infringed on their TM. If they ignore that then a cease and desist letter is sent. The only reason why the Seahawks case previously went to court is because the Seahawks challenged TAMU's tm.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #17 January 12, 2012 Could someone explain to us non-egghanders what this 12th man thing is about ?scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #18 January 12, 2012 Quote Could someone explain to us non-egghanders what this 12th man thing is about ? There are 11 players on the field per team during a play in football (the real football that we play here in the states, not that goofy soccer stuff). Quote The 12th Man tradition began in Dallas on January 2, 1922, at the Dixie Classic, the forerunner of the Cotton Bowl Classic. A&M played defending national champion Centre College in the first post-season game in the southwest. In this hard fought game, which produced national publicity, an underdog Aggie team was slowly defeating a team which had allowed fewer than 6 points per game. The first half produced so many injuries for A&M that Coach D. X. Bible feared he wouldn’t have enough men to finish the game. At that moment, he called into the Aggie section of the stands for E. King Gill, a student who had left football after the regular season to play basketball. Gill, who was spotting players for a Waco newspaper and was not in football uniform, donned the uniform of injured player Heine Weir and stood on the sidelines to await his turn. Although he did not actually play in the game, his readiness to play symbolized the willingness of all Aggies to support their team to the point of actually entering the game. When the game ended in a 22-14 Aggie victory, Gill was the only man left standing on the sidelines for the Aggies. Gill later said, "I wish I could say that I went in and ran for the winning touchdown, but I did not. I simply stood by in case my team needed me."[52] A statue of E. King Gill stands to the north of Kyle Field to remind Aggies of their constant obligation to preserve the spirit of the 12th Man.[52] --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #19 January 12, 2012 Quote There are 11 players on the field per team during a play in football (the real football that we play here in the states, not that goofy soccer stuff). Thanks for the explanation. In real football (the one played with a ball and with the feet and with fancy haircuts)they are also 11 actors players on the field, like in the american version of the game played with an egg and the hands and sexy tightsscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
