mixedup 0 #1 January 1, 2012 Can't get out to DZ for a bit and have been pondering this... So it's pretty obvious to note the difference in canopy flight between pulling down a toggle slow compared to fast, however once the canopy settles down do they end up in the same flight position (angle of turn etc). That is, if you pulled down to say 1/2 breaks on the left toggle only, then in the cases you did this (a) very fast, and (b) slow, would the canopy eventually settle down to flying the same with the same turn angle/speed/rate of descent? Or for the first case would that initial hard/fast pull have an ongoing effect on the flight...e.g. would it end up being in a slightly tighter ongoing turn... don't ask me why this question popped into my head Parachutist Game IOS Android YouT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyMarko 1 #2 January 1, 2012 Why did this question pop into your head? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsaxton 0 #3 January 1, 2012 This will vary on each canopy, try it, up high. Quote Can't get out to DZ for a bit and have been pondering this... So it's pretty obvious to note the difference in canopy flight between pulling down a toggle slow compared to fast, however once the canopy settles down do they end up in the same flight position (angle of turn etc). That is, if you pulled down to say 1/2 breaks on the left toggle only, then in the cases you did this (a) very fast, and (b) slow, would the canopy eventually settle down to flying the same with the same turn angle/speed/rate of descent? Or for the first case would that initial hard/fast pull have an ongoing effect on the flight...e.g. would it end up being in a slightly tighter ongoing turn... don't ask me why this question popped into my head Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #4 January 1, 2012 The canopy will eventaully fly exactly the same with one toggle at half brakes regardless of how fast you pulled that toggle down. Yes, there will be differences in how the canopy reaches that flight mode, but it will end up being the same sooner or later. Just like full flight on your canopy, if you reach it by unstowing the brakes and slowly raising the toggles all the way up, it will be the same full flight as if you unstowed the brakes, pulled the toggles down to your hips and let go of them so they shoot up to the guide ring. Once the canopy settles down, it's full flight as usual. The idea is that canopy is in 'steady state' flight, with no acceleration in any direction. If you were to unstow only one brake, inducing a turn, the canopy would again settle into 'steady state' flight, with no acceleration in any direciton. Yes, you would be turning and diving, but the turn and dive would be consistant because the input to the canopy is consistant. If the input doesn't change, the flight mode doesn't change. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mixedup 0 #5 January 1, 2012 cheers - thanks DaveParachutist Game IOS Android YouT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Para5-0 0 #6 January 1, 2012 Just be careful of pulling it too hard or fast to half brakes to prove this to yourself. It could induce line twisted depending on the wing load, canopy, how hard you pull. It has been done before. Then the answer would be no, it wont be the same you may have to go to your reserve. Just some thoughts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #7 January 2, 2012 Yes, Dave answered your question directly and Para gave some good info about the speed of your pull. Here's some more good stuff... One of the requirements for our USPA A license is for students to do "high-performance" turns. It relates to the question you're asking because of how fast, or slow, one pulls the toggles. Here's what our USPA says in Section 4 Category G: 1. Performance turn entry and exit with balance a. Enter a turn only as quickly as the canopy can maintain balance (center of lift over the center of load) during the turn. b. Surging, lurching, or line twist indicate a turn entered too quickly. c. A canopy is more susceptible to collapse from turbulence during entry and exit from a turn. d. The canopy dives sharply after a maximum performance turn. 2. Reverse turns a. You must know the maximum safe rate of turn entry for each canopy you jump. b. Practicing reverse turns helps you determine the maximum safe toggle turn rate before inducing a line twist. c. Make a smooth but deep turn at least 90-degrees to the right, then reverse toggle positions smoothly but quickly for a 180-degree turn to the left (four sets recommended to complete Category G). d. A line twist at landing pattern altitudes may be unrecoverable in time for a safe landing, particularly with a higher wing loading. e. In case you induce a line twist, you should complete all maximum-performance turns above the 2,500-foot decide-and-act altitude for a cutaway. It' always a good thing to know what you are doing before you do it, eh? My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
