Low Pull: 480m - Student

[ciscobiz 0]

I made a low pull, I lost alti-awareness on jump 9. Under canopy at 350m. Was in a spin and couldn't focus on alti. I lost contact with my instructor, but he then re-appeared past 1000m and tried to pull for me. I pulled myself. Safe landing. Big thanks to my instructor. He went through his own personal safety limits, i'm sure.

I shoud have pulled when i felt out of control, shouldn't I? That was the right thing to do?

Tell me what you think.

[justinb138 0]

you pulled main or reserve?

[Reginald 0]

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you pulled main or reserve?

LOL, Justin my friend. Tell him your story.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[NWFlyer 2]

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I shoud have pulled when i felt out of control, shouldn't I? That was the right thing to do?

Tell me what you think.

What did your instructor say when you debriefed the jump?

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Mike111 0]

GLad youre OK

[Andy9o8 2]

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I shoud have pulled when i felt out of control, shouldn't I? That was the right thing to do?

Tell me what you think.

What did your instructor say when you debriefed the jump?

Exactly. If you’ve already gotten an answer to this from your instructor, go with that answer. If you haven’t asked him that particular question yet, go back and ask him. He’s in the best position to give you the proper answer.

[AFFI 0]

If you have been properly trained you probably already know the answers to your inquiry...

Although there are clearly defined practices in place concerning student deployment priorities, the best advice you will likely get here is to talk to your instructor when considering that you are still on student status as outside advice may undermine the training practices in place where you are learning at.

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[ciscobiz 0]

I pulled main. Upside down. I saw pilot go out and released. Almost tangled. I can just see it snaking around my arm as i snatched it (my arm) back in.

But seeing the instructor there gave me confidence. I thought the dive was still on as he came around to my front then right. Even though I glimpsed my alti at 1000m I think that gave me a false sense of security. I was lucky not to have 2 out.

Instructor said you are responsible for your saftey and he's absolutely right. But it made me think twice. He was obviously busy coming around to try to pull for me - he said every time he approached I went unstable. But I only saw him once. It was surreal.

He says get back into it in 2 weeks. I wont get back until I'm physically fit enough to do it. He says i'm not agile enough and he's right.

I'd like to know what the safety limits are for instructors. I jumped in Australia.

Best, - Chris

[NWFlyer 2]

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Instructor said you are responsible for your saftey and he's absolutely right.

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I'd like to know what the safety limits are for instructors. I jumped in Australia.

These two statements are pretty much incompatible. IMHO (and note that I don't have that much experience, nor am I an instructor) you should not be concerned with what limits your instructor will go to in order to save your life. You should be concerned with saving your own life. It sounds like, during your skydive, you were more concerned with finding your instructor in the air, and in getting stable.

Please ask your instructor about what he expects you to do if you "lose" him in the air. Please ask your instructor what he expects you to do if you are unstable at pull time. The answers to those two questions are very relevant to your continued training.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[phoenixlpr 0]

Head up!

I had 2 total mal in raw. So? I went back. I was a bit nervous in the next jump.

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I was lucky not to have 2 out.

I saw an instructor landing under 2 out last weekend. It was low pull & long snivel under a Saber2.

Learn the lesson and get back!

[ciscobiz 0]

I guess what I am getting at is how low is low? I've experienced low, now. I bet the instructor has done it that low before. But wonder how low could I have gone. How much time does the parachute need to open and decelerate you in order to have a good landing?

I want to know what the limits are. I wasn't relying on my instructor. Having gone through it i think I am experienced enough to ask these questions. I opened a full 1000m below where I should have. At that alti could I have cutaway if I had had a mal?

Best, - Chris

[hexadecimal 0]

As others have said, these are questions you need to ask your instructor(s), not random people on an internet forum.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I guess what I am getting at is how low is low?

That was pretty damn low.

But you gotta stick with your instruction. The last thing you want to be doing should something like this happen again is debate whether to listen to your instructor's words or to listen to anything you read here. Not all situations have a clear answer, but generally picking one action is preferable to doing nothing. If you don't trust your instructor, you need to relocate.

[Reginald 0]

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I guess what I am getting at is how low is low? I've experienced low, now. I bet the instructor has done it that low before.

I doubt it. You were scary low. In over 700 jumps I’ve never been that low. You were WELL below the US BSR for students when you pulled and the instructor sounds like he was below the BSR’s for the most advanced US skydiving license. It sounds like you made a number of mistakes and I bet your instructor told you about them in the debrief. If so listen to him, if not go back and talk to him more. It sounds like you are opinion shopping here because you didn’t like what your instructor told you.

With all that said, you lived to jump another day. Good job on that part.

Blue Skies.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[justinb138 0]

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I guess what I am getting at is how low is low?

If the numbers you listed were accurate (open at 350m), you were probably about a half-second away from a cypres fire.

[Phillbo 11]

Pull higher next time.

[velvetjo 0]

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I guess what I am getting at is how low is low? I've experienced low, now. I bet the instructor has done it that low before. But wonder how low could I have gone. How much time does the parachute need to open and decelerate you in order to have a good landing?

I want to know what the limits are. I wasn't relying on my instructor. Having gone through it i think I am experienced enough to ask these questions. I opened a full 1000m below where I should have. At that alti could I have cutaway if I had had a mal?

The thing to keep in mind here is that you barely got the main out and deployed in an unstable position.


The reason that your pull altitude is higher as a student is so that you have extra time to deal with malfunctions, not just open & land your main in the minimum amount of altitude. Consider how well (or not) your initial pull went as you think about how long your emergency procedures might take. Yes, you've experienced a low pull - do you really think it's a good idea to repeat?

Stick with your instructor's guidance. You need to get very good at the basics before you even think about questioning student minimums. There's an old aviation saying that every FAR (Federal Aviation Regulation) has a stack of bodies to back it up.

Learning from the experience of others sometimes requires humility.

Lance

[ScottyInAus 0]

"how low is low?"

In Aus the A Licence jumpers have a limit of 1800ft
As a Student I THINK you have to pull before 3000ft
350m, thats about 900-1000ft yeah??
Thats pretty damn low, like it was said earlier probably 1 second from a cypress fire.

Glad to hear you're ok.
Get back up there.

Cheers,
Jason.

[MB38 0]

480m = 1,574 feet.

In the US, all students and A license holders must have their container open by 3,000 feet. B holders by 2,500 and C/D holders by 2,000.

I'm not sure of any other countries, I'm just posting it because reading this thread got me curious and made me look it up.

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[mdrejhon 8]

In Canada, I'm allowed to pull as low as 2200 feet.

I think I did that once -- on a 2500 feet hop n pop.

[mjosparky 4]

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But wonder how low could I have gone.

At 480 meters you have about 8 or 9 seconds to impact. At 350 meters you have less then 6 seconds. And the last couple of seconds don't count because it is too late to do anything.

At you experience level you would not have had a chance to cut away and get a reserve out.

Go kiss your instructors feet for staying with you and waking you up. He was foolish for being down there with you but probably saved your life.

You have no friends under 2000 feet (610 meters)

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[ciscobiz 0]

Thanks to everyone. I guess sparky gave me the answers I was looking for.

Can't wait to jump again! But this time I will have an audible alti as a backup in case it happens again - and there won't be any more low pulls in my case history for sure.

Altitude awareness. Don't YOU forget it.

[NWFlyer 2]

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Thanks to everyone. I guess sparky gave me the answers I was looking for.

Can't wait to jump again! But this time I will have an audible alti as a backup in case it happens again - and there won't be any more low pulls in my case history for sure.

Altitude awareness. Don't YOU forget it.

Please talk to your instructor before you use an audible altimeter.

See this thread for thoughts on why it might not be the best way to learn altitude awareness:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=78099;

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[dragon2 2]

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480m = 1,574 feet.

In the US, all students and A license holders must have their container open by 3,000 feet. B holders by 2,500 and C/D holders by 2,000.

I'm not sure of any other countries, I'm just posting it because reading this thread got me curious and made me look it up.

We have a 2500 ft limit for square mains, for everyone. Although students are of course supposed to pull higher, the mandatory opening altitude after that doesn't change with your license.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[sundevil777 102]

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See this thread for thoughts on why it might not be the best way to learn altitude awareness:

It is not a good way to learn altitude awareness, but it is a good way to be reminded that you've screwed up.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am