kentAllan 0 #1 December 9, 2011 I'm about to order my first rig, But it would really be helpful if someone who KNOWS could give me feedback on this. Reserves : I'm getting a reserve in the area of 160'-170' Wich would pack the smallest? I'm Looking at PD Reserve, Speed 2000 and Optimum. some say the speed packs smaller than the optumum, some beg the differ. Main: Pulse 190 or Safire2 179. Wich would have the least pack volume? they both say 474CUI in the charts. Hope someone with first hand experience could give some solid feedback on this :) edit: Sorry, I seem to have posted in the wrong forum. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
angle228 0 #2 December 9, 2011 optima will pack smaller than any other reserve. There is no debate on this. that is the case. no rebutle. end of story. its science dudeI am fucking your mom right now Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #3 December 9, 2011 Quoteoptima will pack smaller than any other reserve. There is no debate on this. that is the case. no rebutle. end of story. its science dude a) For fucks sake ! Optima is an audible from L&B. Optimum is a low bulk reserve from PD. b) If it is really a scientific fact, please state the supporting data thanks for playing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #4 December 9, 2011 Quote optima will pack smaller than any other reserve. There is no debate on this. that is the case. no rebutle. end of story. its science dude Viso packs same thing as optima scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
axelandr 0 #5 December 9, 2011 from my limited experience, I would say the Pulse will probably pack smaller than the Safire 2, but it`s more a hunch than anything else.. from what I've heard, the Pulse packs more or less like a Pilot ZPX, which would pack smaller than a Safire 2.. As for the reserves, it seems to be a pretty widespread concencus that the Optimum packs smaller than any other reserve in the same size.. no science to back it up, just a lot of word of mouth alex. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #6 December 9, 2011 ..and i have heard that the speed 2000 still packs the smallest, always has, always will! having said that, i jump an optimum, and i'm very happy with it! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,447 #7 December 9, 2011 small pack jobs are overrated. That said (I had to say it), you might want to make your reserve be the same size or larger than your main. Do you want your first jump on the smallest canopy you've ever jumped to be your first reserve ride, away from the spot? The Optimum is a really sweet flying canopy; my test jump on it had me thinking about buying one for a main. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildcard451 0 #8 December 9, 2011 Quotesmall pack jobs are overrated. That said (I had to say it), you might want to make your reserve be the same size or larger than your main. Do you want your first jump on the smallest canopy you've ever jumped to be your first reserve ride, away from the spot? Not just that, and something unlikely in this scenario but a valid point nonetheless: At those sizes you are talking about it is not likely that you are buying a small rig for vanity but always consider how tight the reserve is going to fit in your pack tray - I have a PDR126 in mine. I have been told I can get an Optimum 143 in there for a larger reserve, but basically so tight my rigger will hate me. The last thing I want, deep in the basement after I have fucked up, or air gremlins have attacked my canopy, is a reserve that is packed super fucking "might just need an extra second I don't have to come out" tight into the tray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theplummeter 15 #9 December 9, 2011 I went from a Pulse 190 to a Safire2 169. The Pulse packed smaller, although not by a whole lot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #10 December 9, 2011 Quote Pulse 190 or Safire2 179. Why the difference in main canopy sizes? BTW, it would probably be easier to find a 189 Safire2 than a 179, but if you want, you can special order a 179.5 or 180, they'll probably make it for ya! "I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #11 December 9, 2011 Speed 2000 packs smaller than optimum. But who is to know how they are measured. speed 135 have similar pack volume to optimum 126. and pulse 190 will pack like safire 169. i don't even know if they make 179. and zpx sucks ass btw. pack volume drops to half the size. not sure when will that be useful.Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #12 December 9, 2011 Quote ..and i have heard that the speed 2000 still packs the smallest, always has, always will! I got $5 that says Cani's 39 packs smaller. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #13 December 9, 2011 Quote Quote ..and i have heard that the speed 2000 still packs the smallest, always has, always will! I got $5 that says Cani's 39 packs smaller. but that's a towel, not a reserve-parachute! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #14 December 9, 2011 QuoteWich would have the least pack volume? they both say 474CUI in the charts. Hope someone with first hand experience could give some solid feedback on this :) The pack volume charts ARE first hand experience, scientifically determined in controlled conditions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #15 December 9, 2011 Why is it important to you which packes the smallest? Get a main parachute that fits your experience. Get a harness / container that fits your nely determined main parachute, your body size and will allow for a downsize later, then find a reserve at the same size as that main and check it fits the container you've picked - it should do. Chosing your gear by 'which is the smallest' is a strange way of looking at it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #16 December 9, 2011 Volume measurement isn't exactly scientific. ParaGear volume lists are old; I don't know that the PIA is doing any updated volume charts any more; and PD doesn't publish volumes for their newer canopies. PD even have a document explaining why they don't believe in those tests, and only show a comparison chart comparing how their canopies relate in pack volumes on a relative basis to each other. Paratec does publish pack volumes for the Speed but I didn't see anything saying whether it was done according to the PIA standard, nor have I yet seen a description of how their measure their canopies, by the PD or the PIA methods. Still, to throw some easily disputed numbers around: PD says their Optimum 143 (just to pick one) packs up something like a PD 126R. The 126 is quoted as 296 cu in on old PIA documents, or 286 on a Jump Shack measurement. The Optimum 143 is a 151 by PIA measurement standards. In comparison, the Speed 150 claims a 266 cu in pack volume. So the Speed certainly claims slightly smaller pack volume. But I'm not in Europe so don't get to see pack jobs compared. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kentAllan 0 #17 December 9, 2011 I'm getting all the gear new, so Im trying to find out wich canopies I will choose. Regarding the 179, they make it for 50 extra bucks. No worries :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-ftp- 0 #18 December 9, 2011 QuoteI'm about to order my first rig this would imply that you are ordering a container NEW. If this is the case, why would you not order it based on what size reserve and main YOUR INSTRUCTORS AND RIGGER reccomend? Call me crazy, but why the hell are you so concerned with pack volume unless. a. you have a container that only holds up to xxx ci canopies and are trying to get a xxx ft reserve. b. you are trying to get the smallest rig possible, yet fit a reserve that suits you to look cool. So which is it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinciflies 0 #19 December 9, 2011 Quote Quote ..and i have heard that the speed 2000 still packs the smallest, always has, always will! I got $5 that says Cani's 39 packs smaller. I might take you up on that for $5! His 39 is all sail and packs up much bigger that you'd think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-ftp- 0 #21 December 9, 2011 QuoteB. Obv. Thought so, well, good luck in the sport bud. You clearly have your priorities in order. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #22 December 9, 2011 QuoteI'm getting all the gear new, so Im trying to find out wich canopies I will choose. That's my point - you're going at it backwards. Step 1: Pick your main canopy. It sounds like you're going for a Safire 179? Step 2: Choose a container that fits that main and is sized correctly for you. Almost all containers will by default fit a similar sized main and reserve. Step 3: Pick a reserve that fits the specs of the reserve container based upon your personal preferences for a manufacturer. As -ftp- says, picking the smallest packing reserve you can is only an applicable seletion criteria if you're trying to jam it into an already tight container that you've got, and that's not a great idea if you can avoide it by buying properly sized gear off the bat. All of that aside, conventional advice would be to build your first rig out of second hand gear, rather than buying new. Have you considered that option? Edit: If you were serious about your answer being option B, I'll let you in on a home truth... Experienced jumpers laugh at newbies who have all matching, tiny gear. Honestly. It's the ones who save their cash to progress their skills that we think look cool. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #23 December 9, 2011 QuoteVolume measurement isn't exactly scientific... I have a memory from long ago of an article in "Parachutist" which explained how this was done. There was a big clear lexan cylinder somewhere, with small air holes in it, the canopy was stuffed inside, and a certain amount of weight placed on top. After allowing time for air to be squished out and fabric to settle, the measurement was then taken on the side of the cylinder. That measurement then easily translates to the cubic inch volume. This was all done indoors in a climate-controlled environment, so that there were no variations in humidity or static electricity. And presumably this was done for all canopies eventually, leading to the volume chart in the back of the ParaGear catalogs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kentAllan 0 #24 December 9, 2011 I can't understand why every question in here about canopy sizes becomes a wingload discussion? I'll get a Main that I AM ALLOWED TO JUMP and same with the reserve. The handbook says that I can jump a canopy wich is laoded maximum 1.1499, why does everybody want me to get something loaded 1.0 or less? In all these threads you guys sa: talk with your instructors. Guess what? thats just what Iæve been doing. And yes, i jump at a very serious DZ in Norway, so I trust them. If you want to know why I'm asking this is it: I got a suggestion for a setup form a rig manufacturer. This was two different containersizes and with different canopies (not different sizes). I'm just asking wich will pack the smallest because I dont have decided wich container and canopies i will go for. and no, I will not be stuffing my container with canopies wich is to big and I will not exceed my wingloadlimits. OK? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #25 December 9, 2011 >I can't understand why every question in here about canopy sizes becomes a wingload discussion? Because wingload mistakes maim and kill a lot of people. It's like asking "what size Nova should I get?" and having everyone tell you "for god's sake, don't get a Nova!" - then getting peeved that no one will tell you what size you should get. >I'm just asking wich will pack the smallest If you found out an Optimum packed the smallest, how would that change your decision? Generally (IMO) the procedure should be: decide on a main that will work well for you decide on a reserve that will work well for you find a container that will fit both Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
